Do You Support Capital Punishment? (Death For Certain Crimes)

[Christ_empowered]

Even if only guilty people were executed, I still would not support the death penalty. I do not think state sanctioned murder is of Christ, and I think it is destructive and barbaric.

 

[jasonc]

Even if only guilty people were executed, I still would not support the death penalty. I do not think state sanctioned murder is of Christ, and I think it is destructive and barbaric.

A cop defending himself ..

The irs,shoot the fact that i pay as i do to the its,well good luck without a gun to force me too.an old jailor warned me,whip out a gun best be willimg to use it should they not listen

 

[Susannah]

I was called in years ago to sit on a jury. We were to decide the fate of a man who had been convicted of killing four women. I had no idea whether he did it or not at the time. The district attorney asked me if I was biased for or against capital punishment.

I was a Quaker at the time, Society of Friends, so I said yes was biased against. The D.A. asked me why. I told him that Quakers had created the word penitentiary for those who needed to do penance. If we execute them they cannot repent. I added that I also believe two wrongs don't make a right.

The D.A. smiled and I turned to look at the defendant. He gave me a look of disgust and laughed as if to say, "No way am I am going to repent."

I decided at that point that some people are evil. There are all kinds of books which ask the question are cold-blooded killer mentally ill or evil.

I did not know who to believe so I read Scott Peck's book, People of the Lie. He said this. "I am a Christian. I have been to an exorcism. I cannot talk about it. But trust me there is evil in the world."

Despite this I am still ambivalent. All I know for sure is that evil does exist. Satan exists. An everyday God either protects me or nurses me back to health.

The best movie to read about evil is the movie The War Room. the scriptwriter suggests you tell Satan to go back to hell. Christ did and so can I. I have a huge cross painted on my door just in case.

I have gotten off the subject. I apologize. But just in case the court gets it wrong I guess it is best to give them a DNA test to be sure. It has been shown that wrongly accused men have been electrocuted now that we have a DNA test. And then there are all the black in the South who were executed by a racist jury. Let's be sure before we pull the switch.

If I had to decide I guess life in prison without parole is the best way to punish people. I used to go in San Quentin as part of my prison ministry, and it is hell on earth.

 

[Tertul]

"Your source doesn't claim that even one innocent person has been executed"__Tertul

Start quote.
1. Cameron Todd Willingham—In 1992, Willingham was convicted of arson murder in Texas.

You said, "We have executed innocent people several times." You provide a link to support that, with the most recent example from a conviction in 1992. You have to go back to a crime of nearly thirty years ago just to find an allegedly "innocent" victim of the DP. And, in spite of some people claiming he's innocent, that man not be innocent of murder. He without a doubt is guilty of at the very least triple manslaughter, so I can't cry any tears over his execution.

And, still, the truly innocent, the thousands upon thousands of people murdered don't mean a thing to you, in your math.

 

[GodsGrace]

This issue is controversial. There are reasonable arguments both pro and con.

Here are some of my thoughts on the Death Penalty.

I tend to be against it because we have executed innocent people several times.
And there is no un-doing that. Dead is dead and cannot be undone.

Life in prison, or other shorter prison sentences, allows the possibility that innocent
people, later proven to be innocent, can be allowed to at least have some kind of
life restored to them.

The Death Penalty can be, and has been, the state snuffing out the life of innocent
human beings. So yes I am against the possibility of that occurring.

I do understand very well the arguments for the Death Penalty. And I understand the
emotions behind those who support the Death Penalty. I understand what a horrible
crime can do to a family who has to live with memories of some killer who was
convicted of murdering in cold blood their loved ones.

But suppose the "murderer" was innocent?

And new evidence proved beyond any doubt that he was totally innocent of the crime
that he was convicted of committing. And the state convicted this innocent man and
snuffed out his life.

What about forgiveness? . . .

Matthew 6:14-15
This verse has to mean something, doesn't it?
"If you forgive other people when they sin against you, your Heavenly Father
will also forgive you. But if you do NOT forgive others their sins, your Father
will NOT forgive your sins."___The Lord Jesus

Question: If someone murdered your loved one, would it not be more in keeping
with Matthew 6:14-15, for you to desire that they be given time in prison to repent
of their crime and their sin against you, and come to know the Lord Jesus as their
Savior?

_______________


I used to be all for the death penalty back in my younger days, but as I got older and
became more empathetic and sympathetic with the human condition, I lost my
"blood lust" and started to desire 2nd and 3rd chances for all human beings.

Prison sentences do in fact offer 2nd and 3rd chances for evil men who make
serious major mistakes. Some of them become Christians in prison. And some is
enough, isn't it?

There are several very successful Christian Prison Ministries that do in fact successfully
preach the gospel to prison inmates and many of them are converted to Christianity
and faith in the Lord Jesus as their Savior.

But again I do understand the craving that some folks have for the death penalty.
I used to feel the same way.

There was a time when I loved the "Rambo thingy" -- you know where they start off showing you the bad guys doing awful things to the good guys, so that the audience builds up a desire to see the bad guys experience a horrible gruesome death. And the bloodier the better!

The last Rambo movie I saw, Old Rambo literally gutted the bad guy like one would slaughter a hog --- and the audience loved it and cheered. I have personally gotten away from that type of blood lust --- even for the truly bad guys. I say give them prison sentences so they can at least have a chance to change and repent and come to believe in the Lord Jesus as their Savior.

_____

Thought For Today:

"Such is the nature of evil. Out there in the vast ignorance
of the world it festers and spreads. A shadow that grows in
the dark. A sleepless malice as black as the oncoming
wall of night. So it ever was. So will it always be. In time
all foul things come forth." __ Thranduil, The Elven King
of Mirkwood

You say you know the reasons why the other side believes the death penalty should exist...but you only presented one reason....the thirst for blood.

There are other reason, that may have been brought up by now....

For instance, if an inmate has been confined to prison for life...what's to stop him from killing guards? Can't get more than life....right? In this case, something different has to be done.
I'm not sure what since I DO NOT agree with the death penalty.

I don't believe the state has any more right to kill a person than an individual person has.

Life in prison is good with me....except for the case above...and I'll bet there are others.

I also agree with what Susannah has stated about some persons being evil.


As to forgiving....that probably would take some time for me....
and I'm not sure how it would end up since I've never had to face this...thank God.
I do tend to forgive persons even if it takes a while.
But how to know what anyone would do in a situation they've never faced?
I certainly don't know. I would hope that, in time, I could forgive.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see that the NT teaches God created three institutions, the church, the family and the government. So if the government (servant of God) decides the death penalty is suitable for a particular crime as murder, then would I be fighting against God if I am against the death penalty, cf Romans 13:4?

Acts 25:11 "For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar. "

Paul here is saying some crimes are "worthy of death".

"Pilate therefore saith unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to release thee, and have power to crucify thee? Jesus answered him, Thou wouldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath greater sin." Christ admits Pilate had the power to put Him to death, but Christ's point was that power, authority to put one to death came from God and not Pilate (not man).

One can be forgiven of their sins but one must still face the consequence of their actions. Jesus could forgive the thief on the cross of his sins but that thief must still face the consequence of the sins he committed, that being a death penalty. I do not find Jesus condemning the Romans for putting this thief to death even though he had been forgiven of his sins by Christ. God's word teaches men on the consequences of wrong doing..."the wages of sin is death". (There is a certain forbidden topic here that tries to get around the Bible's teachings on 'actions have consequences' but I will leave that topic alone.)

How did God institute the government?

 

[Tertul]

I don't believe the state has any more right to kill a person than an individual person has.

Ever hear of a thing called justice? That's what's different between a murderer killing an innocent person and the government killing that murderer.

Why do you believe the state has a right to kidnap people and lock them up?

I imagine you, if you were around 3000 years ago, arguing with Moses. "Moses, God is wrong on the death penalty!"

Do you have no pity for the thousands upon thousands of innocent people killed every year? You might as well have told them to drop dead when you can only be concerned protecting the murderers.

 

[jasonc]

You say you know the reasons why the other side believes the death penalty should exist...but you only presented one reason....the thirst for blood.

There are other reason, that may have been brought up by now....

For instance, if an inmate has been confined to prison for life...what's to stop him from killing guards? Can't get more than life....right? In this case, something different has to be done.
I'm not sure what since I DO NOT agree with the death penalty.

I don't believe the state has any more right to kill a person than an individual person has.

Life in prison is good with me....except for the case above...and I'll bet there are others.

I also agree with what Susannah has stated about some persons being evil.


As to forgiving....that probably would take some time for me....
and I'm not sure how it would end up since I've never had to face this...thank God.
I do tend to forgive persons even if it takes a while.
But how to know what anyone would do in a situation they've never faced?
I certainly don't know. I would hope that, in time, I could forgive.

If the state doesn't have the authority to kill.then doesn't the u.s. and others owe some apologies.I mean one kills in war .I'm,not saying all wars are justified but well you are an American we killed Brittons to keep our independence.

Sure some might be innocent but if you take the power to defend life away from,the govt who would bother being under its protection .prisons have lethal force for a reason .riots occur ,nothing or little about prisons says we .can, turn our little murderer into a saint .its a broken culture there

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

How did God institute the government?

In His word, God has ordained that man should have oversight by those in higher power Romans 13. Oversight therefore is not just carried out within the family and church but by those outside in the government. "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. "

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

[QUOTE="Ernest T. Bass, post: 1565008, member: 262]
Christ admits Pilate had the power to put Him to death, but Christ's point was that power, authority to put one to death came from God and not Pilate (not man).

"Christ admits Pilate had the power to put Him to death, but Christ's point was that power, authority to put one to death came from God and not Pilate (not man)."__Ernest T. Bass

My view of what the Lord Jesus said to Pilate is that He was only recognizing the laws of Rome. At that time the Lord Jesus lived under Roman Law and was therefore subject to the laws of Rome. The Lord Jesus nowhere said or even implied that he approved of the laws of Rome. Therefore my view is that the statement of the Lord Jesus about Pilate having the authority to put one to death is NOT a proof text showing that God approves of the Death Penalty for we today who live under the truths and guidelines of the New Testament.
[/QUOTE]
I see that the context (John 19:10-11) shows Christ knew Pilate had the authority to "crucify". Jesus did not condemn that power but argued that power/authority came from God and not man. Since God gives that authority it show God's approval of it. From the OT it can easily be seen God approved of capital punishment and I do not find where God has ever changed His mind about it.

 

[humble soul]

I dont support punishment for Capitalism. Its not perfect. But its better than Communism.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ever hear of a thing called justice? That's what's different between a murderer killing an innocent person and the government killing that murderer.

Why do you believe the state has a right to kidnap people and lock them up?

I imagine you, if you were around 3000 years ago, arguing with Moses. "Moses, God is wrong on the death penalty!"

Do you have no pity for the thousands upon thousands of innocent people killed every year? You might as well have told them to drop dead when you can only be concerned protecting the murderers.

You don't know me...you cannot make such statement about me.

Let me ask YOU something...
what does JUSTICE mean?

I have plenty of pity for many.
That doesn't mean the state should have the right to kill a person.
I tell no one to drop dead.

 

[JAG ..]

You say you know the reasons why the other side believes the death penalty should exist...but you only presented one reason....the thirst for blood.

There are other reason, that may have been brought up by now....

For instance, if an inmate has been confined to prison for life...what's to stop him from killing guards? Can't get more than life....right? In this case, something different has to be done.
I'm not sure what since I DO NOT agree with the death penalty.

I don't believe the state has any more right to kill a person than an individual person has.

Life in prison is good with me....except for the case above...and I'll bet there are others.

I also agree with what Susannah has stated about some persons being evil.


As to forgiving....that probably would take some time for me....
and I'm not sure how it would end up since I've never had to face this...thank God.
I do tend to forgive persons even if it takes a while.
But how to know what anyone would do in a situation they've never faced?
I certainly don't know. I would hope that, in time, I could forgive.

Wondering,

I read your post very carefully and I think you made some very good points. Much appreciated and thanks for making such helpful contributory comments to this thread.

Regarding the murderers in prison who might kill prison guards, that is certainly a possibility. My view is there are no quick, easy, and simple solutions to this issue.

I think the following is reasonable:

JAG Writes:
l Corinthians 13: 7 says [love] "always protects." So we have to help people who
are in prison. There are several Christian Prison Ministries that do successfully
help prison inmates to come to know the Lord Jesus as their Savior. They have
to be alive if they are to be helped and given a 2nd and 3rd chance to change
and repent.

So?

■ So keep murderers in prison.

■ Do NOT let them out.

■ Help them while they are in prison. Therefore life without parole is a better
let-us-help-them choice than the state killing them.

■ Help them change and repent.

■ Help them to become good people so they can make a positive contribution to
the other prisoners.

■ All this is reasonable.

■ There is nothing crazy or bad about wanting to help fallen human beings and give
them an opportunity to redeem themselves.

_________

Killing a human being means that we have given up on them. That we have concluded that they are not salvageable. That they are no more good. That they are now worthless. That they are human trash and not worth trying to help. We might not like the word "trash" but if we agree to kill a human being we are, for all practical purposes, treating them as if they are "trash." Is what I just wrote true or is it false? My view is that what I just wrote is obviously true.

 

[GodsGrace]

If the state doesn't have the authority to kill.then doesn't the u.s. and others owe some apologies.I mean one kills in war .I'm,not saying all wars are justified but well you are an American we killed Brittons to keep our independence.

Sure some might be innocent but if you take the power to defend life away from,the govt who would bother being under its protection .prisons have lethal force for a reason .riots occur ,nothing or little about prisons says we .can, turn our little murderer into a saint .its a broken culture there

I see a difference between murdering a murderer and safeguarding our nation and our rights which might cause a war. Even God agreed with wars. But did he EVER agree with murder??

I don't think so.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering,

I read your post very carefully and I think you made some very good points. Much appreciated and thanks for making such helpful contributory comments to this thread.

Regarding the murderers in prison who might kill prison guards, that is certainly a possibility. My view is there are no quick, easy, and simple solutions to this issue.

I think the following is reasonable:

JAG Writes:
l Corinthians 13: 7 says [love] "always protects." So we have to help people who
are in prison. There are several Christian Prison Ministries that do successfully
help prison inmates to come to know the Lord Jesus as their Savior. They have
to be alive if they are to be helped and given a 2nd and 3rd chance to change
and repent.

So?

■ So keep murderers in prison.

■ Do NOT let them out.

■ Help them while they are in prison. Therefore life without parole is a better
let-us-help-them choice than the state killing them.

■ Help them change and repent.

■ Help them to become good people so they can make a positive contribution to
the other prisoners.

■ All this is reasonable.

■ There is nothing crazy or bad about wanting to help fallen human beings and give
them an opportunity to redeem themselves.

_________

Killing a human being means that we have given up on them. That we have concluded that they are not salvageable. That they are no more good. That they are now worthless. That they are human trash and not worth trying to help. We might not like the word "trash" but if we agree to kill a human being we are, for all practical purposes, treating them as if they are "trash." Is what I just wrote true or is it false? My view is that what I just wrote is obviously true.

I agree with you.
Just two comments:

1. Many prison officials do not do their job properly. They must get tired of dealing with this type of person....the type that is hard-hearted and has little sympathy for others. I do believe that they have a very difficult job and it even changes them a bit if they are to do it. Kind of like a doctor and his relationship to a patient and how some distance must be kept.

2. I also believe that some are so evil that they are beyond help. Some have mental problems, some are asocial, etc. But they don't deserve to die either. But not everyone could be helped to become a good person, as you've listed above.

 

[GodsGrace]

"Christ admits Pilate had the power to put Him to death, but Christ's point was that power, authority to put one to death came from God and not Pilate (not man)."__Ernest T. Bass

My view of what the Lord Jesus said to Pilate is that He was only recognizing the laws of Rome. At that time the Lord Jesus lived under Roman Law and was therefore subject to the laws of Rome. The Lord Jesus nowhere said or even implied that he approved of the laws of Rome. Therefore my view is that the statement of the Lord Jesus about Pilate having the authority to put one to death is NOT a proof text showing that God approves of the Death Penalty for we today who live under the truths and guidelines of the New Testament.

I see that the context (John 19:10-11) shows Christ knew Pilate had the authority to "crucify". Jesus did not condemn that power but argued that power/authority came from God and not man. Since God gives that authority it show God's approval of it. From the OT it can easily be seen God approved of capital punishment and I do not find where God has ever changed His mind about it.

Where did God approve of capital punishment in the O.T.?

 

[GodsGrace]

In His word, God has ordained that man should have oversight by those in higher power Romans 13. Oversight therefore is not just carried out within the family and church but by those outside in the government. "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. "

Paul was trying to make Christians understand that if they didn't fight against the Roman govt, they'd have a better life and might even save it.

He meant that if a person is innocent, the govt would not bother them, and so all laws and rules should be followed so they could be left in peace to live their lives.

God ordained govt.
What if it's the German govt of 1935?
which brought about the one of 1945 and before?

 

[Randy]

My understanding as one who knows Jesus.
Is the death penalty lawful for capitol murder on the testimony of two or more witnesses? YES
Is the death penalty mandatory for our country? NO
Does the penalty of a crime cause a trial to be unfair? NO

And as a citizen of the US if the death penalty bothers you talk to your legislator.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Paul was trying to make Christians understand that if they didn't fight against the Roman govt, they'd have a better life and might even save it.

He meant that if a person is innocent, the govt would not bother them, and so all laws and rules should be followed so they could be left in peace to live their lives.

God ordained govt.
What if it's the German govt of 1935?
which brought about the one of 1945 and before?

God ordained government but does not determine what type of government a country has.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Where did God approve of capital punishment in the O.T.?

One place Numbers 15:32-36