Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[Deborah13]

We cannot lose our salvation.
God is not wishy washy.
He doesn't give us salvation one day and take it away the next.
Romans 14:4;
"Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants still or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand".

Boy do I agree with that scripture.
That is why I said that "Thy rod and Thy staff shall comfort me"
I firmly believe that if one's heart is for the Lord and they fall, He will correct them with the rod of His authority and He will reach out with the Shepard hooked staff and keep them from running off a cliff, drawing them back to Him. With me it was not pretty, easy, or comfortable. But He keeps His promises, Praise Him!

 

[Kathi]

Mark 1
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying,“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Repent first, believe after.

Matthew 4
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Jesus preached repentance first, not belief.


Luke 13
3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.


Acts 2
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is given after repentance.

Acts 3
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Repentance before conversion.

Acts 26
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

Repent, turn to God and then works. In that order.


Repentance always comes first. How can anyone expect to receive anything if they aren't repentant?
.

Yes,that is true.And remain repentant.That does not mean that a person has a right to do whatever they want and then think if they ask for forgiveness that is ok.They are willingly committing sin.For that is mocking God.A person should do their very best to walk in the ways of God.

 

[Kathi]

Hi Gary, repent in all your verses does not mention repenting of your sins.
Repent is a turning away from the world and looking towards God.
Then we can see what he has for us.
If we hold onto the world then we cannot see God.

You can not be of this world and God at the same time.Heaven is our home.We are just passing through on this Earth.We need to always focus on our real home.

 

[gr8grace3]

Hi Gary, repent in all your verses does not mention repenting of your sins.
Repent is a turning away from the world and looking towards God.
Then we can see what he has for us.
If we hold onto the world then we cannot see God.

Repentance is believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. We go from unbelief to belief. That is for the Gentile.

Jesus taught repentance to the Jew as How the Jew saw their Messiah. They believed things that were not true about their Messiah and they had to repent of the false beliefs that they had about Him and come to Him.

There both the same thing, but the Gentile didn't have all the baggage that the Jew Had. That is why Paul says,"Just believe". The Jew on the other hand had to be reprogrammed.

 

[Matthew G]

First off the context is false teachers. Second, the people that are worse off than before. Where were they before?

2 Pet 2:18-19~~For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they(the false teachers) entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.

So the before is a person who is barely escaping. Yet escaping none the less. So we have a believer who is living in ignorance and falls prey to these false teachers.He would have been better of staying in Ignorance than to fall for the false teacher. He is worse of now because that person now has nowhere to go for true doctrine and will have a harder time believing true doctrine because of the false teaching he has fallen for.

Ignorance would have been a better place to stay. But being ignorant of bible doctrine will leave one with no armor for the false teachers.

Yes, but Peter clearly tells us that they knew Jesus Christ and fell away. And as for "worse off than before" - if barely escaping is what they were before, then what's worse than that?

Not escaping at all.

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes, but Peter clearly tells us that they knew Jesus Christ and fell away. And as for "worse off than before" - if barely escaping is what they were before, then what's worse than that?

Not escaping at all.

Do you think that all Men Have a Bonafide chance at salvation?

 

[Gary]

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.


The "beginning" Peter is referring to, is the state of the individual before they came to the knowledge of the Lord.

It is clearly explained in verse 21.


21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.


They were better off as a nonbeliever.
.

 

[Deborah13]

"Is a backsliding Christian still saved?"

Answer: This is a question that has been debated endlessly over the years. The word “backslider” or “backsliding” does not appear in the New Testament and is used in the Old Testament primarily of Israel. The Jews, though they were God’s chosen people, continually turned their backs on Him and rebelled against His Word (Jeremiah 8:9). That is why they were forced to make sacrifices for sin over and over in order to restore their relationship with the God they had offended. The Christian, however, has availed himself of the perfect, once-and-for-all sacrifice of Christ and needs no further sacrifice for his sin. God himself has obtained our salvation for us (2 Corinthians 5:21) and because we are saved by Him, a true Christian cannot fall away so as not to return.

Christians do sin (1 John 1:8), but the Christian life is not to be identified by a life of sin. Believers are a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). We have the Holy Spirit in us producing good fruit (Galatians 5:22-23). A Christian life should be a changed life. Christians are forgiven no matter how many times they sin, but at the same time Christians should live a progressively more holy life as they grow closer to Christ. We should have serious doubts about a person who claims to be a believer yet lives a life that says otherwise. Yes, a true Christian who falls back into sin is still saved, but at the same time a person who lives a life controlled by sin is not truly a Christian.

What about a person who denies Christ? The Bible tells us that if a person denies Christ, he never truly knew Christ to begin with. 1 John 2:19 declares, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” A person who rejects Christ and turns his back on faith is demonstrating that he never belonged to Christ. Those who belong to Christ remain with Christ. Those who renounce their faith never had it to begin with. 2 Timothy 2:11-13, “Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.”

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/backsliding-Christian.html#ixzz2uHiYisRx

What has denying Christ got to do with backsliding? I guess some people have different definitions of this word just like the word repentance.

 

[Deborah13]

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.


The "beginning" Peter is referring to, is the state of the individual before they came to the knowledge of the Lord.

It is clearly explained in verse 21.


21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.


They were better off as a nonbeliever.
.

How could one be worse off than the unbeliever if the penalty is the same?

 

[Deborah13]

What!?
You're not saved!?
I'm telling...

You probably should.

 

[Gary]

How could one be worse off than the unbeliever if the penalty is the same?

Because the nonbeliever goes into judgment totally ignorant with no expectations of eternal life.

The ex-believer however, who ends up with their name being removed from the Book of Life has full knowledge of what they had. They are going to the Lake of Fire because they chose to walk away from God. They had eternal life and they chose to give it up.
.

 

[Deborah13]

There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding here, as there usually is in these type of threads.
Here's the bottom line:
Do you know that you are going to be with God forever?
If you have doubt, then look at what Jesus did on the cross and know that what he did is a completed work, for you.
Believe in him as your Lord and Savior and believe he rose again from the dead.
Tell the world, "Jesus is Lord"!
Believe he overcame death and he will do the same for you.
Just don't let go of this, ever!
It is the free gift of God.

You're awesome, allenwynne.

 

[Deborah13]

Mark 1
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying,“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Repent first, believe after.

Matthew 4
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Jesus preached repentance first, not belief.


Luke 13
3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.


Acts 2
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is given after repentance.

Acts 3
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Repentance before conversion.

Acts 26
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

Repent, turn to God and then works. In that order.


Repentance always comes first. How can anyone expect to receive anything if they aren't repentant?
.

They aren't steps like putting together a Lego model.
I agree that the first mind change (repentance) must be to believe that Jesus is Savior and Lord. So it seems to me they are the same thing.
John 16:8-10

 

[Gary]

There both the same thing, but the Gentile didn't have all the baggage that the Jew Had. That is why Paul says,"Just believe". The Jew on the other hand had to be reprogrammed.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


This is an example of believers not making it into heaven.

Simply believing will get one nothing but the grave.
.

 

[Deborah13]

Yes,that is true.And remain repentant.That does not mean that a person has a right to do whatever they want and then think if they ask for forgiveness that is ok.They are willingly committing sin.For that is mocking God.A person should do their very best to walk in the ways of God.

Repentance means to change your mind.
God repented, He wasn't asking Moses to forgive Him. God is never wrong.

 

[Deborah13]

Because the nonbeliever goes into judgment totally ignorant with no expectations of eternal life.

The ex-believer however, who ends up with their name being removed from the Book of Life has full knowledge of what they had. They are going to the Lake of Fire because they chose to walk away from God. They had eternal life and they chose to give it up.
.

Why is that worse? Either way they knew and made the choice. The penalty is the same.
The ex-believer would not have that expectation of eternal life either. They chose death.

 

[Gary]

They aren't steps like putting together a Lego model.
I agree that the first mind change (repentance) must be to believe that Jesus is Savior and Lord. So it seems to me they are the same thing.
John 16:8-10

I posted those verses in response to this comment. "Repentance comes after salvation"

Is that your belief? Repentance comes "after" salvation?

Just curious.
.

 

[Butch5]

Why do you support OSAS or why do you not support it?
I support it and this is why.
Once saved always saved?"

Answer: Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. Numerous passages of Scripture declare this fact.

(a) Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

(b) Paul asks two crucial questions in Romans 8:33-34 "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God's elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.

(c) Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.

(d) The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9) and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ.

(e) John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.

(f) For the most conclusive argument, Scripture says it best itself, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!

Read more: [URL='http://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html#ixzz2uGeYFy2o[/quote']http://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html#ixzz2uGeYFy2o[/URL]

Hi Kathi,

There are no passages of Scripture that support OSAS. That doctrine didn't even exist until the 1500's. When those passages are considered within the context that they are written it becomes clear that they are not supporting OSAS

 

[Gary]

Why is that worse? Either way they knew and made the choice. The penalty is the same.

Everyone has "the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ"? Believer and nonbeliever alike? Are you sure about that?

The ex-believer would not have that expectation of eternal life either. They chose death.

The point is, once the ex-believer finds himself standing before God, he will realize that he had eternal life but he gave it away. The ex-believer may have had no expectations of eternal life when his heart stopped, but once he finds himself standing before God he's gonna realize what a mistake he made and that there's no way to correct it. He's going to go into eternal damnation knowing it didn't have to be this way.
.

 

[gr8grace3]

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


This is an example of believers not making it into heaven.

Simply believing will get one nothing but the grave.
.

And Notice that Believing is not mentioned in those verses and the Lord never knew them.Actually if you look real close, those things are the wide gate. The Narrow gate is not mentioned in all those things except for the will of the Father. John 6:40~~"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." The Very narrow Gate in Matt 7:13.

Judas is a perfect example of the verses you quote. He was with the disciples and Prophesied,cast out demons and did many wonders In Jesus Name. But never believed or did the will of the Father John 6:40

We can use it for people who are around the Gospel all their lives and are truly relying on their water baptism to save them. They live the life of a Christian and say lord , lord. But in reality they were counting on water baptism to save them. But the Lord never knew them.