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Doctrine of the Trinity – Is it Fundamental to the Christian Faith

What did Jesus declare "From this present time you both know the Father, and have seen him"

  • One God manifest in the flesh

    Votes: 3 42.9%

  • He that sees me has seen the Father

    Votes: 4 57.1%

  • Jesus and the Father are one God

    Votes: 4 57.1%

  • Jesus was confused and the doctrines of man are to be obeyed

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    7
th1b.taylor said:
I have agreed and you presentation does naught to prove the God Head is singular and from the beginning, the word translated as God is plural and then the pronouns us and our are plural and we know for a fact that all three persons were present at the Baptism of Jesus because Jesus went into the water, The Father assured us that He was His Son and the Holy Spirit descended out from the sky. That makes three elements or persons in one God.
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if this was true then there should be many scriptures referring to the Most High as "they" and "they are one" and none exist.
 
jaybird said:
i am assuming they are intended to be parts of the trinity as thats what the author seems to indicate when he added these words to the scripture which is strictly forbidden by the Almighty himself.
Click to expand...


  • Don't forget that it is equally forbidden to take away from scripture as well.


Let's say for one minute that 1 John 5:7 was never written.

Based on the rest of the scripture, could you please explain how many these three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are?


The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • other: Please explain


JLB
 
jaybird said:
if this was true then there should be many scriptures referring to the Most High as "they" and "they are one" and none exist.
Click to expand...

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:26-27


JLB
 
JLB said:
I answered your question, and refuted your theory with scripture.
Click to expand...
Not TRUE!
The question asked 4 parts not 3, you are adding the three & in the process throwing away one of the witness!
There are 4 witness's in Heaven Now!
The Father, Son, Word and Holy Spirit!

Again are you to scared to answer the question?
Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say, could you please explain how many these four,
  1. Father
  2. Son
  3. Word
  4. Holy Spirit
, are?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • other: Please explain
 
jaybird said:
was Jesus worshiped as king, Christ, the Most High? just because Jesus is worshiped does not make Him the Most High or part of a trinity. david is worshiped, angels are worshiped, etc, we never elevate them to the trinity.
Click to expand...
David was worshipped as a king not as a God.and angels are not worshipped. John thought in a vision as others did that as well when they saw an angel and were told not as it was a sin
Obesience ,the human form of honor to a king isn't the same on any level to what God is.

John saw the Lord in a vision and fell as dead and was lifted up.Jesus on the throne implies he recieved worship! The visions of the Lord in the tanach are nearly identical to the vision given in revalation by John.

HoW can ,since Jesus said no man Hath seen the Father nor His shape not be God?

I hope you realize by taking a type of Jewish view of monotheism that you do see the problem of being made by angels as all the oldest translations of Genesis say let Us make men in our image. I quoted a tenth century rabbi on Genesis! Rashis tanach translate the same and that is even older.most bibles are using the Jewish mss,which in no way is a christian translation!
 
markathome said:
Again are you to scared to answer the question?
Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say, could you please explain how many these four,
Click to expand...

Here is my answer again -

These three are one, as the scripture says.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7


Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:26-27


The scriptures teach us man is three yet one, not four yet one.


Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23



Please answer and stop avoiding -
  • Is man three, yet one or four yet one?



JLB
 
JLB said:
Here is my answer again -

These three are one, as the scripture says.
Click to expand...

Again Not TRUE!
The question asked 4 parts not 3 parts, please try to read the question before you answer!
There are 4 witness's in Heaven Now!
The Father, Son, Word and Holy Spirit!

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say, could you please explain how many these four,
  1. Father
  2. Son
  3. Word
  4. Holy Spirit
, are?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • other: Please explain
If you are not going to answer the simple question then I'm done. God Bless
 
jasonc said:
David was worshipped as a king not as a God.and angels are not worshipped. John thought in a vision as others did that as well when they saw an angel and were told not as it was a sin
Obesience ,the human form of honor to a king isn't the same on any level to what God is.

John saw the Lord in a vision and fell as dead and was lifted up.Jesus on the throne implies he recieved worship! The visions of the Lord in the tanach are nearly identical to the vision given in revalation by John.

HoW can ,since Jesus said no man Hath seen the Father nor His shape not be God?

I hope you realize by taking a type of Jewish view of monotheism that you do see the problem of being made by angels as all the oldest translations of Genesis say let Us make men in our image. I quoted a tenth century rabbi on Genesis! Rashis tanach translate the same and that is even older.most bibles are using the Jewish mss,which in no way is a christian translation!
Click to expand...

Genesis 19:1
The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth
shachah - bow down, to worship.
these angels were worshiped. i dont think lot believed they were part of a trinity, he fell down before them because he knew who they represented. they represented the same one Jesus did.
 
JLB said:
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:26-27


JLB
Click to expand...

how do you know the Father was not speaking to the sons of the Most High that we know were present at the creation? whos image are they made in? was Jesus a Son of the Most High, was the world not created through Him?
 
Simple answers to simple questions
Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these four,
  1. Father
  2. Son
  3. Word
  4. Holy Spirit
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these three,
  1. Father
  2. Word
  3. Holy Spirit
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these two,
  1. Father
  2. Word
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these two,
  1. Father
  2. Holy Spirit
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these one,
  1. Father
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4
 
jaybird said:
if false then please show me a scripture where it says "they are one", but you cant as they do not exist.
Click to expand...
Jesus said He was God and the Father, booming through the clouds said Jesus was His Son, that's two and we are to Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:10) People like this New Covenant Preacher preach heresy because they think Devining the Word means dividing it into categories.
 
markathome said:
Simple answers to simple questions
Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these four,
  1. Father
  2. Son
  3. Word
  4. Holy Spirit
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these three,
  1. Father
  2. Word
  3. Holy Spirit
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these two,
  1. Father
  2. Word
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these two,
  1. Father
  2. Holy Spirit
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4

Based on what the whole of the Scriptures say,
could you please explain how many these one,
  1. Father
, are?

Answer:1 Deuteronomy 6:4
Click to expand...

The Word, the Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God, the mighty God, Wonderful Counselor, Lord or Lords, King of kings, Savior, Redeemer are all references to the Son of God.

The Son and the Word are the same person.

There are not two only begotten Sons; hence the phrase Only Begotten.

We don't count Him twice in the Godhead.



JLB
 
markathome said:
Sorry it's 4 not 3! John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Father, the Son, the Word, & the Holy Ghost are 4, so the 4 are 1, not 3 are 1.
  1. The Father is God
  2. The Son is God
  3. The Word is God
  4. The Holy Ghost is God
See 4 not 3 :nod

Which one is thrown away to worship the number 3
Again Quit worshiping numbers!
Click to expand...
Pleas stop playing this silly game of yours. It is much too distracting to be taken seriously and ruins any serious discussion.

The Word is the Son. There are three. Period.
 
th1b.taylor said:
Jesus said He was God and the Father, booming through the clouds said Jesus was His Son, that's two and we are to Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:10) People like this New Covenant Preacher preach heresy because they think Devining the Word means dividing it into categories.
Click to expand...
there is no scripture where Jesus says He is the Most High and the Father.
the 12 baptized in the name of the Son.
 
jaybird said:
if this was true then there should be many scriptures referring to the Most High as "they" and "they are one" and none exist.
Click to expand...
Who says there "Should be"?
The scriptures declare that the Father is God.
Jhn 6:27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on him has God the Father set his seal.
They also declare that the Son is God.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel (which means, God with us).
They declare that the Holy Spirit is God.
Act 5:3-4 But Peter said, "Anani'as, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.
And they declare that there is only one God.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God;
Isa 44:8b Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.

But the father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit.
Jhn 14:16-17 And I (Jesus) will pray the Father (God the Father), and he will give you another Counselor (the Holy Spirit), to be with you for ever, Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

There are many more. The Trinity isn't spelled out in so many words but it is inescapable.

iakov the fool
 
Free said:
Pleas stop playing this silly game of yours. It is much too distracting to be taken seriously and ruins any serious discussion.
Click to expand...
I learned it from ya'll so why don't ya'll stop with the crap!

Free said:
The Word is the Son. There are three. Period.
Click to expand...
John 1:1 says God is the Word but like numerous other versus's it gets thrown in the trash!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


.
 
JLB said:
The Son and the Word are the same person.

There are not two only begotten Sons; hence the phrase Only Begotten.

We don't count Him twice in the Godhead.
Click to expand...

John 1:1 says God is the Word but like numerous other versus's it gets thrown in the trash!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 
markathome said:
John 1:1 says God is the Word but like numerous other versus's it gets thrown in the trash!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Click to expand...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

The Word is the Son, not the Father.

The Word is another name for the Son.

13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. Revelation 19:13

The Word was with God.

The Word, that is to say, the Son became flesh, not the Father.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

  • The Son and the Word are the same person.

There are not two only begotten Sons; hence the phrase Only Begotten.

We don't count Him twice in the Godhead.


There are three persons of the Godhead: The Father, the Word, the Holy Spirit.


These three are One.

The three are God.


JLB
 
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