Does Colossians 2:16 abolish the Fourth Commandment?

[Hopeful 2]

Do you remember what was going on in the Corinthian church at the time?

Yes.

Sexual sins were rife in the church and there were divisions among the members and heresies were floating around the church. That isn't to be rebuked?

Certainly.

They were also taking each other to pagan courts for defrauding one another. They were carnally minded.

Right.
By their carnal actions, the sinners revealed that they had neither repented of sin, (because they were still committing them), nor were they reborn from God's seed, (because they were still bringing forth the fruit of the devil).
Paul said to kick them out, but later added that if the would do a real repentance they would be welcomed back.

 

[Gary K]

I am tempted all the time.
But I beleive James 4:7, and resist the devil.
I have even made up mind-games to play while the temptations fade away.
The A-Z game involves trying to remember a bible name starting from A and continuing alphabetically to Z.
Or a fish breed, or a dog breed, or a flower, or the name of a nation, or an American city...etc.

Folks put too much importance on the words "sin nature"
What does it even mean ?
Can sin ?
Wants to sin ?
Gets tempted to sin ?
Just call it human nature.
Jesus showed us we can triumph over a nature by having never succumbed to it.
The repentant can overcome it too.
Thanks be to God !

Yes the repentant can overcome our sinful nature but only through divine power. However, not on our own.

2Peter 1: 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Trusting in ourselves is the same mistake Lucifer made in heaven.

 

[Gary K]

Yes.

Certainly.

Right.
By their carnal actions, the sinners revealed that they had neither repented of sin, (because they were still committing them), nor were they reborn from God's seed, (because they were still bringing forth the fruit of the devil).
Paul said to kick them out, but later added that if the would do a real repentance they would be welcomed back.

Yes. Do you think you are capable of creating repentance on your own?

That's not what Jesus taught the two disciples on the walk to Emmaus.

Luke 24: 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes the repentant can overcome our sinful nature but only through divine power. However, not on our own.

Right, and it happens at our rebirth from God's seed.
After our crucifixion and burial with Christ, (Rom 6:3-4), we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life ! (Rom 6:4)
That new life has a divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

2Peter 1: 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Trusting in ourselves is the same mistake Lucifer made in heaven.

Agreed.
What does that reveal to you about those who do continue to commit sin ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes. Do you think you are capable of creating repentance on your own?

Repentance isn't something that is created.
Repentance is a change, both of mind and heart, from being a sinner to being obedient to God.
One chooses to do it.

That's not what Jesus taught the two disciples on the walk to Emmaus.
Luke 24: 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

When repentance is presented or commanded, man has the choice to comply or reject it.
It is a choice to be made by each of us.

 

[Gary K]

Right, and it happens at our rebirth from God's seed.
After our crucifixion and burial with Christ, (Rom 6:3-4), we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life ! (Rom 6:4)
That new life has a divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

Agreed.
What does that reveal to you about those who do continue to commit sin ?

That the person hasn't surrendered their lives fully to Jesus

 

[Gary K]

Repentance isn't something that is created.
Repentance is a change, both of mind and heart, from being a sinner to being obedient to God.
One chooses to do it.

When repentance is presented or commanded, man has the choice to comply or reject it.
It is a choice to be made by each of us.

Sorry, but that isn't scriptural. God gives us repentance and we can only choose to accept or reject it.

2Timothy 2: 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[hawkman]

How did the person born on this earth become a murderer and attempt to excuse himself in front of God? Did he inherit a sinful nature from his parents?

It is a fallen world we live in with sinners all around for examples of bad behavior . We learn by example . So , "sin nature" is an excuse for the bad people do , interesting .

I see nothing refuting a sinful nature in either the OT or the NT.

I see nothing saying our DNA was altered ! But that is what you said .

I've just been thinking about the first time I heard Jesus wasn't born with a sinful nature. I thought it was the rankest heresy I'd ever heard.

You are correct Jesus was born without "sin nature " just as everyone else was also born without it .
Human nature is what we all have .

 

[Hopeful 2]

That the person hasn't surrendered their lives fully to Jesus

That is right
They are nor converts yet.

 

[Gary K]

It is a fallen world we live in with sinners all around for examples of bad behavior . We learn by example . So , "sin nature" is an excuse for the bad people do , interesting .

I see nothing saying our DNA was altered ! But that is what you said .


You are correct Jesus was born without "sin nature " just as everyone else was also born without it .
Human nature is what we all have .

Well all I can say to this is I'll just agree to disagree. I have given you reams of scripture you haven't even discussed, but that's on your conscience, not mine. I will always stick with scripture rather than what I want to believe as I believe that honesty is the best policy and I don't want rejecting scripture on my conscience.

 

[Gary K]

That is right
They are nor converts yet.

So you agree that a person can surrender a part of their life to Jesus but not all of it? That's the lesson I take from the life of Judas.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sorry, but that isn't scriptural. God gives us repentance and we can only choose to accept or reject it.

How is that different from what I just wrote ?

2Timothy 2: 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Repentance, like faith, and every other aspect of salvation, is available to all men.
It is there for the taking, thanks be to God.

 

[Gary K]

How is that different from what I just wrote ?

Repentance, like faith, and every other aspect of salvation, is available to all men.
It is there for the taking, thanks be to God.

Did you say God gives us repentance? Remember I asked if you could repent on your own. You seem to believe you can believe on your own as you deny having a sinful nature so it seems very logical that you think you can repent of sin on your own.

 

[hawkman]

Well all I can say to this is I'll just agree to disagree.

Yeah , it happens .

I have given you reams of scripture you haven't even discussed, but that's on your conscience, not mine. I will always stick with scripture rather than what I want to believe as I believe that honesty is the best policy and I don't want rejecting scripture on my conscience.

I will go back and look at your proof you offer , I am pretty sure I have been over it before many times .

 

[hawkman]

Just call it human nature.
Jesus showed us we can triumph over a nature by having never succumbed to it.
The repentant can overcome it too.
Thanks be to God !

Yes , I agree ! :yes

 

[Hopeful 2]

Did you say God gives us repentance?

God has provided repentance for all who wish to quit committing sin.
If people wish to continue committing sin, they will reject the gift that is available to them.

Remember I asked if you could repent on your own.

You can repent "on your own" as nobody can prevent it.
In fact, you must repent on your own, as it is a choice one must make if they want to love God with all their heart, soul, and mind.

You seem to believe you can believe on your own

Yes I do.
Who else could facilitate my belief ?
Who would cause me to believe ?

as you deny having a sinful nature so it seems very logical that you think you can repent of sin on your own.

The end of the sinful nature occurs at the destruction of the old "me" and the rebirth of the new "me". (Ro 6:6, 2 Cor 5:17)
As rebirth is contingent on a true/real repentance from sin, what further sin would ever need to be repented of ?
You only need to repent of sin once, if the repentance is real.

 

[Gary K]

God has provided repentance for all who wish to quit committing sin.
If people wish to continue committing sin, they will reject the gift that is available to them.

You can repent "on your own" as nobody can prevent it.
In fact, you must repent on your own, as it is a choice one must make if they want to love God with all their heart, soul, and mind.

Yes I do.
Who else could facilitate my belief ?
Who would cause me to believe ?

The end of the sinful nature occurs at the destruction of the old "me" and the rebirth of the new "me". (Ro 6:6, 2 Cor 5:17)
As rebirth is contingent on a true/real repentance from sin, what further sin would ever need to be repented of ?
You only need to repent of sin once, if the repentance is real.

So you have changed your mind and now believe we are born with a sinful nature?

 

[Hopeful 2]

So you have changed your mind and now believe we are born with a sinful nature?

No, as any nature is gleaned from one's life.
The child of highly educated parents gleans the nature of one seeking knowledge.
The child of substance abusers gleans the nature of the self-medicating.

The child of holy parents gleans the nature of the pious.
It is written..."Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." (Pro 22:6)

 

[Gary K]

No, as any nature is gleaned from one's life.
The child of highly educated parents gleans the nature of one seeking knowledge.
The child of substance abusers gleans the nature of the self-medicating.

The child of holy parents gleans the nature of the pious.
It is written..."Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." (Pro 22:6)

I'll just ask you one more question and then drop the subject.

Just before Thanksgiving last year one of my wife's grand daughters was murdered. We inherited a a baby girl from this tragedy. She just turned 7 months old. She's a sweet baby. but like all baby's is very selfish and demanding. Why are all babies like this? They haven't had a chance to develop habits yet. Yet she has a terrible temper and goes into rages in which she stiffens up, arches herself backwards, and screams at the top of her lungs. She is so full of rage her nose, ears, forehead and around her eyes turn deep red. She gets close to having a stroke as her blood pressure gets so high.

Her temper is an inherited trait as her father, and grandfather had terrible tempers. and her mother's father and grandfather had the same. On the other side of her mother's family her grandmother and grandfather, and great great grandfather had terrible tempers too. That's how far back I know the family history of tempers.

I also inherited the alcoholic gene and as far back as I know my old man's family were alcoholics and from the very first time I drank alcohol I drank until I puked. There was no stopping point for me until I was so miserable I couldn't drink any more.

Why are these sinful, self destructive traits, as sin is self destructiveness, passed on by dna if there is no sinful nature?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I'll just ask you one more question and then drop the subject.

Just before Thanksgiving last year one of my wife's grand daughters was murdered. We inherited a a baby girl from this tragedy. She just turned 7 months old. She's a sweet baby. but like all baby's is very selfish and demanding. Why are all babies like this? They haven't had a chance to develop habits yet. Yet she has a terrible temper and goes into rages in which she stiffens up, arches herself backwards, and screams at the top of her lungs. She is so full of rage her nose, ears, forehead and around her eyes turn deep red. She gets close to having a stroke as her blood pressure gets so high.

Her temper is an inherited trait as her father, and grandfather had terrible tempers. and her mother's father and grandfather had the same. On the other side of her mother's family her grandmother and grandfather, and great great grandfather had terrible tempers too. That's how far back I know the family history of tempers.

I also inherited the alcoholic gene and as far back as I know my old man's family were alcoholics and from the very first time I drank alcohol I drank until I puked. There was no stopping point for me until I was so miserable I couldn't drink any more.

Why are these sinful, self destructive traits, as sin is self destructiveness, passed on by dna if there is no sinful nature?

It is the faulty upbringing that didn't snuff out the tendencies that over time became a child's nature.
If you don't "lay down the law" with that baby now, you will be at the mercy of her temper until you die.
Make her learn now that raging and fuming glean nothing but your ignoring of her.
The allergic reaction to alcohol may be inherited, but the over drinking isn't. (Been there myself)
It is a learned behavior.