Does Colossians 2:16 abolish the Fourth Commandment?

[Gary K]

I am not ignoring it at all.
Not being a Jew, I am under no obligation to follow a Law which I am dead to.

So you're not ignoring it, you're just just ignoring it by not keeping it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So you're not ignoring it, you're just just ignoring it by not keeping it.

If God or His Son comes back and says the Law is back in force, I will start preaching Law keeping.
And circumcision, and sabbath keeping, and feast keeping, and dietary rules, and tithing, and temple worship, and several hundred other things that the men of the OT couldn't do.

 

[Gary K]

If God or His Son comes back and says the Law is back in force, I will start preaching Law keeping.
And circumcision, and sabbath keeping, and feast keeping, and dietary rules, and tithing, and temple worship, and several hundred other things that the men of the OT couldn't do.

When Jesus comes the 2nd time it's too late.

Revelation 22: 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

The antedeluvians had no second second chance either. God gave them 120 years
to accept His invitation of mercy: the 120 years that Noah preached that the flood was coming. Then the flood came and swept them all away.

 

[Hopeful 2]

When Jesus comes the 2nd time it's too late.

Revelation 22: 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

The antedeluvians had no second second chance either. God gave them 120 years
to accept His invitation of mercy: the 120 years that Noah preached that the flood was coming. Then the flood came and swept them all away.

Thank God we can be righteous now !

 

[Gary K]

Thank God we can be righteous now !

But how do you figure if you cling to disobeying God that you have been cleansed of your sin?

 

[Hopeful 2]

But how do you figure if you cling to disobeying God that you have been cleansed of your sin?

Because I don't disobey God.
The sabbath's presage had been fulfilled.
Our resting in Christ fulfills the OT's day of rest.

 

[Gary K]

Because I don't disobey God.
The sabbath's presage had been fulfilled.
Our resting in Christ fulfills the OT's day of rest.

OK.

Proverbs 14: 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[Hopeful 2]

OK.

Proverbs 14: 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Are you not resting in Christ ?

1. Matthew 11:28
   Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
   Matthew 11:29
2. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
3. Hebrews 3:11
4. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
   Hebrews 3:18
   And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
   Hebrews 4:1
   Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
   Hebrews 4:3
   For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
   

 

[Gary K]

Are you not resting in Christ ?

1. Matthew 11:28
   Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
   Matthew 11:29
2. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
3. Hebrews 3:11
4. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
   Hebrews 3:18
   And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
   Hebrews 4:1
   Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
   Hebrews 4:3
   For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I do rest in Jesus. He's the one who enables me to keep all of His commandments which includes the 10 commandments. Faith in Jesus doesn't excuse disobedience.

Here's what Jesus said when He met the devil in the wilderness.

Matthew 4: 1 THEN was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When Jesus said that there was no NT. He said His faith was based in the OT, and He obeyed God perfectly by living according to the OT. He loved His neighbor and His Father perfectly as He never sinned.

He also said if we love Him we will keep His commandments and He's the one who spoke them from mount Sinai. They are all based in love for God and love for our fellow man. If we love God supremely we will not break the first four by practicing idolatry in any form, neither worshiping physical idols or the idols of our own opinions. And if we love our neighbor as ourselves we will not break the last six.

Why do you think love for God excuses sin, as sin is the transgression of the law?

And Revelation tells us that during the end times God will have a people who keep the ten commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Paul and Moses tell us what that testimony is.

1Corinthians 1: 4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
Exodus 25: 16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.

What went under the mercy seat?

Exodus 25: 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

So the testimony of Jesus is the 10 commandments an during the end times God will have a people who will keep the 10 commandments and have the 10 as the testimony of Jesus. What is testimony? Evidence given in a court of law.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I do rest in Jesus. He's the one who enables me to keep all of His commandments which includes the 10 commandments. Faith in Jesus doesn't excuse disobedience.

Here's what Jesus said when He met the devil in the wilderness.

Matthew 4: 1 THEN was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When Jesus said that there was no NT. He said His faith was based in the OT, and He obeyed God perfectly by living according to the OT. He loved His neighbor and His Father perfectly as He never sinned.

He also said if we love Him we will keep His commandments and He's the one who spoke them from mount Sinai. They are all based in love for God and love for our fellow man. If we love God supremely we will not break the first four by practicing idolatry in any form, neither worshiping physical idols or the idols of our own opinions. And if we love our neighbor as ourselves we will not break the last six.

Why do you think love for God excuses sin, as sin is the transgression of the law?

And Revelation tells us that during the end times God will have a people who keep the ten commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Paul and Moses tell us what that testimony is.

1Corinthians 1: 4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
Exodus 25: 16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.

What went under the mercy seat?

Exodus 25: 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

So the testimony of Jesus is the 10 commandments an during the end times God will have a people who will keep the 10 commandments and have the 10 as the testimony of Jesus. What is testimony? Evidence given in a court of law.

How long have you been a non-sinner ?
What "church" do you go to ?

 

[JLB]

Many people claim that the verse Colossians 2:16 abolishes the Fourth Commandment of Gods eternal Ten Commandments

The law of Moses has been abolished at the cross.

 

[Gary K]

How long have you been a non-sinner ?
What "church" do you go to ?

I'm still a sinner as I am sinful. But sinning is not a necessary condition. Scripture tells us this. I'm sorry you don't believe it as you are missing out on the greatest joy there is to have from a relationship with Jesus.

 

[Gary K]

The law of Moses has been abolished at the cross.

Yes, the law of Moses. It was most likely written on animal skins. The law of God was written on two tables of stone with thew finger of God to demonstrate it's eternal nature. Moses law was written on animal skins to demonstrate its temporary nature.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I'm still a sinner as I am sinful. But sinning is not a necessary condition. Scripture tells us this. I'm sorry you don't believe it as you are missing out on the greatest joy there is to have from a relationship with Jesus.

If one is still a sinner, they are the ones who have missed out on a relationship with God and His Son.
Use the gift of repentance to become an ex-sinner.

 

[Gary K]

If one is still a sinner, they are the ones who have missed out on a relationship with God and His Son.
Use the gift of repentance to become an ex-sinner.

First. I owe you an apology for leaning on you so hard about being lost if you don't repent. Some one on another forum pointed this out to me and I prayed about it and God made me understand I was in the wrong. I am sorry as I don't know your heart and have no right to judge you. Thank you for being so kind in response to my judgmental attitude/

So you're a once saved always saved person. I disagree with that because scripture disagrees with it.

2Peter 2: 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Plus, all throughout Paul's writings we have warnings about falling into sin. Why warn if it isn't possible to sin any more?

 

[Hopeful 2]

First. I owe you an apology for leaning on you so hard about being lost if you don't repent.

Your point is true...if men don't permanently turn from sin they will be lost.
I repented of sin many years ago.

Some one on another forum pointed this out to me and I prayed about it and God made me understand I was in the wrong. I am sorry as I don't know your heart and have no right to judge you. Thank you for being so kind in response to my judgmental attitude/

No prob'.

So you're a once saved always saved person. I disagree with that because scripture disagrees with it.

I am, but only in this respect...If one turns from sin, and holds to that turn, they will be saved.
Nobody "is" saved, as that will not be determined until the last day.

2Peter 2: 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Scary, huh ?

Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

All sin is willful.
More scariness, huh ?

Plus, all throughout Paul's writings we have warnings about falling into sin. Why warn if it isn't possible to sin any more?

Yep, I have known many that started out all gung-ho, only to turn again to their supposedly dead "flesh".
If they ever do have a real, true, permanent repentance from sin, it will be the day of their FIRST conversion.
And I pray for them everyday.
God didn't give us all those warnings while thinking man can't fall.

 

[Gary K]

Your point is true...if men don't permanently turn from sin they will be lost.
I repented of sin many years ago.

No prob'.

I am, but only in this respect...If one turns from sin, and holds to that turn, they will be saved.
Nobody "is" saved, as that will not be determined until the last day.

Scary, huh ?

All sin is willful.
More scariness, huh ?

Yep, I have known many that started out all gung-ho, only to turn again to their supposedly dead "flesh".
If they ever do have a real, true, permanent repentance from sin, it will be the day of their FIRST conversion.
And I pray for them everyday.
God didn't give us all those warnings while thinking man can't fall.

The only thing I would disagree with is that all sin is wilful. We are often deceived into committing sin. It's why the devil is guaranteed to be cast into the lake of fire. His sin was definitely chosen. Eve was deceived.

I have often been deceived into sin during my life. I was once very self destructive as I was convinced I was utterly worthless. This is what the devil does to millions of people.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The only thing I would disagree with is that all sin is wilful. We are often deceived into committing sin. It's why the devil is guaranteed to be cast into the lake of fire. His sin was definitely chosen. Eve was deceived.

James' description of the matter is what I go by..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
You are saying that it doesn't require one or more of those blocks for something to be a sin.
I and James say if there is no temptation, lust, enticement, or conception, there is no sin.

I have often been deceived into sin during my life. I was once very self destructive as I was convinced I was utterly worthless. This is what the devil does to millions of people.

If you were not tempted to commit sin, it wasn't a sin.
If you were not drawn away by your own lusts to commit that sin, it wasn't a sin.
If you were not enticed to commit that sin, it wasn't a sin.
If you had resisted the temptation, there would have been no sin.
Eve did everything wrong.

 

[Gary K]

James' description of the matter is what I go by..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
You are saying that it doesn't require one or more of those blocks for something to be a sin.
I and James say if there is no temptation, lust, enticement, or conception, there is no sin.

If you were not tempted to commit sin, it wasn't a sin.
If you were not drawn away by your own lusts to commit that sin, it wasn't a sin.
If you were not enticed to commit that sin, it wasn't a sin.
If you had resisted the temptation, there would have been no sin.
Eve did everything wrong.

I agree with everything you said except your conclusion.

We inherited our sinful nature from Adam and Eve. That means we are sinful right down to the level of our DNA. There is no way we can change that.

Paul tells us we have sinful flesh multiple times.

Romans 6: 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Romans 7: 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8: 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is found all throughout Paul's writings. There are many more but I figured this was enough to demonstrate the frequency of his comments on the flesh. It's why sin cannot be overcome in our own power, Only the power of God can overcome it and enable us to obey God. It's why the disciples lives changed so dramatically after Pentacost. They went from a group of self centered men interested only in being number one in the kingdom to a group of men willing to give their lives for the gospel. Paul's conversion tells us the same story. We went from being a murderer to a martyr for God when he met Jesus.

There is a genetic aspect to sin. I have no idea how it happened, but it did as the Bible so clearly tells us. It's why the redeemed are given new bodies at the 2nd coming. That takes away our built in disposition to sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I agree with everything you said except your conclusion.

We inherited our sinful nature from Adam and Eve.

Scripture please.

That means we are sinful right down to the level of our DNA. There is no way we can change that.

You are blaming your hands and feet for your mind's initiated sins.

Paul tells us we have sinful flesh multiple times.
Romans 6: 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Romans 7: 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8: 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul wasn't talking about the skin and bones, but about the worldly oriented mind.

This is found all throughout Paul's writings. There are many more but I figured this was enough to demonstrate the frequency of his comments on the flesh. It's why sin cannot be overcome in our own power, Only the power of God can overcome it and enable us to obey God. It's why the disciples lives changed so dramatically after Pentacost. They went from a group of self centered men interested only in being number one in the kingdom to a group of men willing to give their lives for the gospel. Paul's conversion tells us the same story. We went from being a murderer to a martyr for God when he met Jesus.

We must be careful to delineate between skin/bones and the worldly oriented mind, when we read the word "flesh".

There is a genetic aspect to sin. I have no idea how it happened, but it did as the Bible so clearly tells us. It's why the redeemed are given new bodies at the 2nd coming.

Where does it clearly make that claim ?

That takes away our built in disposition to sin.

You don't give enough credit to the effects of rebirth from God's perfect seed.
The old had passed away and all things are made new, according to 2 Cor 5:17.