Does God give up on people?

[Classik]

A preacher says: yes! And if that is the case, the situation cant be remedied, then.

And he goes on to say, when we feel guilty of our activities, it's the Holy Spirit working in our hearts - and that means God is still waiting for our U-turn. But when you feel just fine with whatever you are doing...then...hmmm....you are doomed

 

[Michael74]

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:32 NIV

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV

 

[Kenny_ms]

But when you feel just fine with whatever you are doing...then...hmmm....you are doomed

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Ok, who is this preacher.

 

[Classik]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Ok, who is this preacher.

I got worried with it too. It seems to be true, tho. A pentecostal preacher.

i just wonder why some would pray forever and get no result - perhaps the giving-up-on-them thing

 

[Classik]

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:32 NIV

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV

More light, pls

 

[Michael74]

Now the Holy Spirit clearly says that in the later times some people will stop believing the faith. They will follow spirits that lie and teachings of demons. Such teachings come from the false words of liars whose consciences are destroyed as if by a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 NCV

 

[WIP]

I think it depends on what you mean by "give up on people."

On the one hand...

5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Hebrews 13:5

16 I will bring the blind by a way they did not know;
I will lead them in paths they have not known.
I will make darkness light before them,
And crooked places straight.
These things I will do for them,
And not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16

But on the other hand...

27 Depart from evil, and do good;
And dwell forevermore.
28 For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. Psalm 37:27-28

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they arewhisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:18-32

 

[JoJoe]

I think it depends on what you mean by "give up on people."

On the one hand...

5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Hebrews 13:5

16 I will bring the blind by a way they did not know;
I will lead them in paths they have not known.
I will make darkness light before them,
And crooked places straight.
These things I will do for them,
And not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16

But on the other hand...

27 Depart from evil, and do good;
And dwell forevermore.
28 For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. Psalm 37:27-28

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they arewhisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:18-32

The thing about Romans 1:18-32 is the gentiles were without excuse. Even though they knew him they deliberately denied the truth (knowledge of God).

The phrase what can be known about God is literally “the knowledge of God.” It is obvious from the whole tenor of the passage that the knowledge here is personal, but not saving knowledge of God . It is probably the knowledge that God has implanted in us, connected to the conscience, and which is sparked or brought to memory through the evidence of creation. Once again, the suppression of this “knowledge” invites the wrath of God for it leaves man without excuse.

So would God give up on us, yes but, its only if we deny his truth after we have become aware.

 

[Classik]

Interesting! Problem is at what point does HE say, enough! You are doomed!

That is the problem. A way out...or the way out is the that which is good.

 

[Brother Mike]

A preacher says: yes! And if that is the case, the situation cant be remedied, then.

And he goes on to say, when we feel guilty of our activities, it's the Holy Spirit working in our hearts - and that means God is still waiting for our U-turn. But when you feel just fine with whatever you are doing...then...hmmm....you are doomed

This is from an observation of a preacher, and what they see. It has to be looked at it that way, through those eyes.

What do we Pastors see? We see a whole bunch of people we want to help, and certainly they call all hours of the night wanting help.
Thing is, I can't help all them, and neither can God. It may look to me, they have crossed that line in what they don't feel bad about. That is not what is really going on though.

People coming to you wanting help and answers, want God. It's not like they have turned from God, to follow something else. In their minds they are still looking to Jesus, but they can't figure out why their life is such a mess and why things go south all the time.

As Pastors, that is what we see all the time.

What causes this? violation of light they where given, and a conscience they have ignored to the point it's no longer on their conscience. In other words, they have self deceived themselves right out of the will of God, and into the hands of Mr. Devil.

Example:
One girl, who had lots of faith, and loved God sat and explained to me all the problems she was having. Being sick, then not being able to pay the bills, and on and on, and on. She could not figure out why God was not helping her. This had been going on for a few years.
She told me how God always use to bless her, and told me of this amazing relationship she had with God, but now.... Nothing.

The Lord prompted me to ask how her boyfriend was doing. She said fine, they had been getting along better, He works more around the apartment with dishes and things. She said he is very supportive.

Not a thing in the World I can do. Not a thing in the World God can do. The conversation is over.

What I know is, the Lord told her to leave this guy alone a few years back, and not to shack up with him. She made excuses about how God knows they love each other, and God knows they will be married someday anyway. Well, 3 years later they are not married.

She violated her own conscience years back, and walked right out of the plan of God.

I have a person right now like that, she called me up saying, I know you have a Word for me Brother Mike. I do, but she won't accept it, I already know. She wants things fixed, but things don't get fixed when you have reasoned your way out of what God told you to do from the start.

God don't give up, and we can talk about judgement and death also as that is in scripture. Once down the path of being self deceived where you believe your own lie to yourself, there is nothing God can say that He has not already said. What he did say to your heart, you have over ridden to the point that God did not really mean or say that. Nothing else for God to say at this point.

 

[JoJoe]

This is from an observation of a preacher, and what they see. It has to be looked at it that way, through those eyes.

What do we Pastors see? We see a whole bunch of people we want to help, and certainly they call all hours of the night wanting help.
Thing is, I can't help all them, and neither can God. It may look to me, they have crossed that line in what they don't feel bad about. That is not what is really going on though.

People coming to you wanting help and answers, want God. It's not like they have turned from God, to follow something else. In their minds they are still looking to Jesus, but they can't figure out why their life is such a mess and why things go south all the time.

As Pastors, that is what we see all the time.

What causes this? violation of light they where given, and a conscience they have ignored to the point it's no longer on their conscience. In other words, they have self deceived themselves right out of the will of God, and into the hands of Mr. Devil.

Example:
One girl, who had lots of faith, and loved God sat and explained to me all the problems she was having. Being sick, then not being able to pay the bills, and on and on, and on. She could not figure out why God was not helping her. This had been going on for a few years.
She told me how God always use to bless her, and told me of this amazing relationship she had with God, but now.... Nothing.

The Lord prompted me to ask how her boyfriend was doing. She said fine, they had been getting along better, He works more around the apartment with dishes and things. She said he is very supportive.

Not a thing in the World I can do. Not a thing in the World God can do. The conversation is over.

What I know is, the Lord told her to leave this guy alone a few years back, and not to shack up with him. She made excuses about how God knows they love each other, and God knows they will be married someday anyway. Well, 3 years later they are not married.

She violated her own conscience years back, and walked right out of the plan of God.

I have a person right now like that, she called me up saying, I know you have a Word for me Brother Mike. I do, but she won't accept it, I already know. She wants things fixed, but things don't get fixed when you have reasoned your way out of what God told you to do from the start.

God don't give up, and we can talk about judgement and death also as that is in scripture. Once down the path of being self deceived where you believe your own lie to yourself, there is nothing God can say that He has not already said. What he did say to your heart, you have over ridden to the point that God did not really mean or say that. Nothing else for God to say at this point.

Indeed. I could never pick up the pastor shoes unless God had his plan on it. If people could just sit, lay, or be still in any form and recognize that he loves us so much to the point he won't deter us from our own behaviours.

I for one don't like to conform to churches and possibly never will. It has been brought to my attention that in fact he wants me to find one. Now I don't know if its to meet a certain someone or to just serve a church. Point is I as a believer in Christ cannot deny what God is instilling in me.

A pastor told me this not too long ago; he said if your flesh hates it, that's what God is calling you to do.

 

[WIP]

The thing about Romans 1:18-32 is the gentiles were without excuse. Even though they knew him they deliberately denied the truth (knowledge of God).

The phrase what can be known about God is literally “the knowledge of God.” It is obvious from the whole tenor of the passage that the knowledge here is personal, but not saving knowledge of God . It is probably the knowledge that God has implanted in us, connected to the conscience, and which is sparked or brought to memory through the evidence of creation. Once again, the suppression of this “knowledge” invites the wrath of God for it leaves man without excuse.

So would God give up on us, yes but, its only if we deny his truth after we have become aware.

We are all without excuse, that is, all of creation.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

 

[Kenny_ms]

A pastor told me this not too long ago; he said if your flesh hates it, that's what God is calling you to do.

Jo, what do you think of that pastors comment?

 

[Kenny_ms]

But when you feel just fine with whatever you are doing...then...hmmm....you are doomed

Between that and this........

A pastor told me this not too long ago; he said if your flesh hates it, that's what God is calling you to do.

Seems some pastors would have us all die of depression.

Honestly....both those pastors sound like fanatics to me.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I guess Classik's pastor is talking about being handed over to a reprobate mind? Seared conscience, God can't get through (?).

 

[Classik]

This is from an observation of a preacher, and what they see. It has to be looked at it that way, through those eyes.

What do we Pastors see? We see a whole bunch of people we want to help, and certainly they call all hours of the night wanting help.
Thing is, I can't help all them, and neither can God. It may look to me, they have crossed that line in what they don't feel bad about. That is not what is really going on though.

People coming to you wanting help and answers, want God. It's not like they have turned from God, to follow something else. In their minds they are still looking to Jesus, but they can't figure out why their life is such a mess and why things go south all the time.

As Pastors, that is what we see all the time.

What causes this? violation of light they where given, and a conscience they have ignored to the point it's no longer on their conscience. In other words, they have self deceived themselves right out of the will of God, and into the hands of Mr. Devil.

Example:
One girl, who had lots of faith, and loved God sat and explained to me all the problems she was having. Being sick, then not being able to pay the bills, and on and on, and on. She could not figure out why God was not helping her. This had been going on for a few years.
She told me how God always use to bless her, and told me of this amazing relationship she had with God, but now.... Nothing.

The Lord prompted me to ask how her boyfriend was doing. She said fine, they had been getting along better, He works more around the apartment with dishes and things. She said he is very supportive.

Not a thing in the World I can do. Not a thing in the World God can do. The conversation is over.

What I know is, the Lord told her to leave this guy alone a few years back, and not to shack up with him. She made excuses about how God knows they love each other, and God knows they will be married someday anyway. Well, 3 years later they are not married.

She violated her own conscience years back, and walked right out of the plan of God.

I have a person right now like that, she called me up saying, I know you have a Word for me Brother Mike. I do, but she won't accept it, I already know. She wants things fixed, but things don't get fixed when you have reasoned your way out of what God told you to do from the start.

God don't give up, and we can talk about judgement and death also as that is in scripture. Once down the path of being self deceived where you believe your own lie to yourself, there is nothing God can say that He has not already said. What he did say to your heart, you have over ridden to the point that God did not really mean or say that. Nothing else for God to say at this point.

Brilliant

 

[JoJoe]

Interesting! Problem is at what point does HE say, enough! You are doomed!

That is the problem. A way out...or the way out is the that which is good.

If people really want their sinful lifestyles, then the awesome reality is God will give them over to it. As C. S. Lewis as aptly remarked, “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, ‘Thy will be done.’ All that are in hell chose it.” The point is, that although Paul is not talking about hell here, and indeed there is still hope for these people, there is nonetheless a continuum between their present existence and their future plight. If a person really wants God out of their thoughts, as these people most definitely do, Love has decided to provide a place in the end where they can choose to go and never have to think about him again.

We are all without excuse, that is, all of creation.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Agreed, but as 21 continues to say: because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts weredarkened.

I believe that there are those who do not comprehend God. As when Paul is talking about those that had no doubt that God existed yet they still worshiped themselves.

 

[JoJoe]

Between that and this........

Seems some pastors would have us all die of depression.

Honestly....both those pastors sound like fanatics to me.

Maybe it was only meant for me in the sense, I hate communication with others(Physically). Hence why I am here, it would only be God's love for me and mine for him; to do such things in his name.

 

[WIP]

If people really want their sinful lifestyles, then the awesome reality is God will give them over to it. As C. S. Lewis as aptly remarked, “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, ‘Thy will be done.’ All that are in hell chose it.” The point is, that although Paul is not talking about hell here, and indeed there is still hope for these people, there is nonetheless a continuum between their present existence and their future plight. If a person really wants God out of their thoughts, as these people most definitely do, Love has decided to provide a place in the end where they can choose to go and never have to think about him again.



Agreed, but as 21 continues to say: because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts weredarkened.

I believe that there are those who do not comprehend God. As when Paul is talking about those that had no doubt that God existed yet they still worshiped themselves.

I propose that denying one knows God and actually not knowing God are two different things. Scripture seems to say that we all know Him by virtue of His invisible attributes and nobody has an excuse. Therefore we cannot excuse or make excuse for those who deny His existence and neither does He.

 

[Kenny_ms]

A preacher says: yes! And if that is the case, the situation cant be remedied, then.

And he goes on to say, when we feel guilty of our activities, it's the Holy Spirit working in our hearts - and that means God is still waiting for our U-turn. But when you feel just fine with whatever you are doing...then...hmmm....you are doomed

Classic, not saying you should divulge who said those things but, do you think it would make the comments any different to some of us if they were in context to all the pastor said leading up to that and afterwards?

Or was that pretty much it, no context needed?