Does God LOVE everybody
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Only Love revealed !
True Believers take God at His Word ! God's Sovereign distinguishing Love for His Chosen is the only Love for man God reveals as per Deut 7:6-7
6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
Mal 1:2
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Now there is nothing here that suggests that God also Loved the Egyptians or other people groups that existed when this truth was made known, and it would be pure assumption to state that He did !
God's Love is not as the False teachers tell us, a general love for all mankind, regardless of their perversion of the Jn 3:16 text or the 1 Jn 2:2 text, but it is special and directed only to His own People Jn 13:1
1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
The Church Eph 5:25,28-29
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Scripture here is very specific as to who Christ Loved, the Church, same as in Jn 13:1, Which is His own Body
28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Again, Christ Loved His Own Church, His Wife, His Own Body, what can be made more plainer to any honest heart quickened by God ?
Read again Mal 1:2, this is the very scripture God inspired Paul to use when preaching about the Election of Grace Rom 9:11-13 cp Rom 11:5-6. That such a truth is really the case [God's Love being discriminate] that God Loves only some men and not others, Paul anticipated the objection of our carnal mind against it and wrote immediately after vs 14
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Now how many of us believe that for God to Love only some of humanity and hate others, love them not, simply based upon motives in Himself and not the creature's doing good or evil, that God would be unrighteous[injustice] for doing so ?
Injustice means :
the quality or fact of being unjust; inequity.
violation of the rights of others; unjust or unfair action or treatment.
Those of you who say what Paul anticipated his hearers to say, that if God did this He would be unfair, then you know that Paul Preached a Distinguishing Love of God for some and hating others ! 4
True Believers take God at His Word ! God's Sovereign distinguishing Love for His Chosen is the only Love for man God reveals as per Deut 7:6-7
6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
Mal 1:2
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Now there is nothing here that suggests that God also Loved the Egyptians or other people groups that existed when this truth was made known, and it would be pure assumption to state that He did !
God's Love is not as the False teachers tell us, a general love for all mankind, regardless of their perversion of the Jn 3:16 text or the 1 Jn 2:2 text, but it is special and directed only to His own People Jn 13:1
1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
The Church Eph 5:25,28-29
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Scripture here is very specific as to who Christ Loved, the Church, same as in Jn 13:1, Which is His own Body
28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Again, Christ Loved His Own Church, His Wife, His Own Body, what can be made more plainer to any honest heart quickened by God ?
Read again Mal 1:2, this is the very scripture God inspired Paul to use when preaching about the Election of Grace Rom 9:11-13 cp Rom 11:5-6. That such a truth is really the case [God's Love being discriminate] that God Loves only some men and not others, Paul anticipated the objection of our carnal mind against it and wrote immediately after vs 14
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Now how many of us believe that for God to Love only some of humanity and hate others, love them not, simply based upon motives in Himself and not the creature's doing good or evil, that God would be unrighteous[injustice] for doing so ?
Injustice means :
the quality or fact of being unjust; inequity.
violation of the rights of others; unjust or unfair action or treatment.
Those of you who say what Paul anticipated his hearers to say, that if God did this He would be unfair, then you know that Paul Preached a Distinguishing Love of God for some and hating others ! 4
No Im not, I just mentioned that in response to someone else's post who said something i believed to be out of context, and I'm Going to leave it that
We are actually in a discussion about “does God love everyone”.
Try to stay focused on the topic and answer if you can.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
God loves the unsaved people of the world.
God wants them to be saved, which is why He sent His Son to die on the cross, so the that the world would be saved through Jesus Christ; through believing in Jesus Christ.
Your choice is to either believe what Jesus taught or believe what Calvinism taught you.
Here’s the question I have for you:
- Do you confess your sins in order to be forgiven and cleansed?
JLB
Where do you find in these words from Jesus Christ, where God hates the people of the world and only wants certain ones to be saved?
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
God loves the unsaved people of the world.
No. I dont acknowledge you theory that God doesn’t love everyone equally.
God does not show partiality.
He may be pleased with some more than others because they walk in obedience to His Voice, but I don’t believe He has favorites; people He chooses to love more than others.
Thanks Elected.
Problem:
Is God only telling those that will be elect to salvation to seek Him?
or
Is God telling everyone to seek Him?
If Calvinism is true/correct why would God be telling those that He will elect and that were predestined from before time began to be elect.....to seek Him?
Were they not predestined to be elect?
WHY IS SEEKING GOD NECESSARY in reformed theology?
I dislike repeating again...
but
If Romans 3:10 means what it says it means.....
then
what do all those verses I've stated telling us TO SEEK GOD mean??
I'm not going to explain Romans 3:10 again because it truly gets tiring.
How about using some common sense instead?
Could you answer my above questions?
The article YOU posted stated that God's sovereignty and man's will to choose to sin is a mystery.
Why is it a mystery?
Because Elected...it is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile God's sovereignty
which, in reformed theology, states that God predestined EVERYTHING,,,,
BUT SOMEHOW man is still RESPONSIBLE for his sinning.
Now,,,when your brain stops hitting up against your skull,,,,
could you reconcile THAT without having to believe that it's a MYSTERY??
No.
Where were you O man, when the earth was created.
Sure.
But God DID set up a system whereby He could be detected and worshipped after coming to know Him.
Again,,,read Roman 1:19-20 EVERYONE CAN KNOW GOD....
Sometimes EVERYONE means everyone....
Sometimes the world means the world.
Sometimes ALL means all....
and NOT only the times that it's convenient for calvinists.
Hermeneutics are abandoned when the reformed read the bible.
This is because they must stick to what JOHN CALVIN taught instead of what JESUS TAUGHT.
You want to discuss Romans 9?
I'm willing.
But it's totally incorrect and uncontextual to bring up Romans 9 in these discussion.
It shows a complete lack of understanding of chapters 9, 10 and 11 when verses from there are quoted as if
Paul is speaking in general terms.
Start a thread on Romans 9 and get serious about it.
This is the point...
one of us is wrong and the other one is right.
And this is no small matter.
Calvinism has caused MANY to leave Christianity altogether due to the harsh representation of God....
a representation which is NOT biblical.
Sure. Except you don't understand God's sovereignty the way every other Christian denomination does.
Answer my questions above.
Also, Why not explain clearly why you believe Romans 3:10?
I've posted many verses stating that man can seek God.....
How about explaining Romans 3:10 just like I've taken the time to explain to you, in a non-reformed way, every verse you ever posted to me.
And,,,explain the following too.
I taught kids our faith...I used to like using images and have seen probably thousands of images of Jesus.
I'm going to post 2 or 3.
Tell me to whom Jesus is reaching out....
Only to the predestined for salvation,
or
to everyone.
If you pick choice one....does this mean that Jesus is just pulling our leg? Is He making fun of the very humans HE created?
Explain THIS away too please.
God loves everyone....all of His best creation...us.
God created man in the Garden and said it was VERY GOOD..... Genesis 1:31
everything else was just good.
God wishes that all men be saved...but not all will accept His conditions. Matthew 7:21
God hates what men do....the lying tongues, the wicked ways. Proverbs 6:16
THIS is why God would want that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of Him. 1 Timothy 2
Jesus came to earth to set up the Kingdom of God. To make the world a better place. Matthew 4:17
Did Jesus mean this better place to be ONLY for the predestined,,,
or did God mean to start a better world for everyone?
EVERYONE who seeks the Kingdom will find it. Matthew 7:7
I find it rather proudful how some want to keep God all to themselves and deny Him to every other person.
All Jesus spoke about was love.
How would a God of love not invite everyone to love in return?
Is He double-minded?
God is a just God.
How would a just God not send EVERYONE to hell if that's what we deserve
or
instead give to EVERYONE the opportunity to become a child of God?
The God of calvinism has no love and He has no justice.
Strange,,,since these are 2 attributes He passed on to us....
having been made in His image. Genesis 1:27
electedbyHim
Whatever (still waiting for your reply to my no. 280 and 281)
"God does not show partiality" - you're taking it out of context. Everywhere this appears in the Bible is about races and nationalities, not about individuals or "everyone equally" as you are using it. The Bible clearly states that God loves those who love Him (Prov. 8:17), and Jesus said, "Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them." If you carefully study the whole Bible about who God loves, it says He loves the righteous, the just, His people, etc. There is an abject silence about gentiles, people who don't obey His commands, people who don't know Him, etc., which implies that God doesn't love them, or at the minimum does not love them as much as He loves those whom He declares love for.
If Jesus in the above quote from John 14 says God loves those who keep His commandments, then does He not love less (or even loathe) those who refuse to obey Him? If Heb. 12 says God chastises those He loves, so if one is not disciplined, that person is illegitimate. Thus, Jesus said, "not everyone who calls Me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven." If a person is illegitimate (not a son), how can you claim that God loves that person as much as He loves His own? Nonsense! Rom. 9 says that "God endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction." But you claim that God loves those people as much as everyone who is devoted to Him. Nonsense!
But the kind of "love for everyone the same" as you appear to think of, is nothing more than a theory or imagination, or a fleeting idea. God does good to those He loves, and destroys those He doesn't. Doing good is what agape means. Are you so blind that you cannot see that God does more good to some than others?
GG.
I will not waste your time or my own.
What will it prove?
We have been down this road multiple times.
If you do not believe that God is sovereign over everything including mans actions and salvation.
That is your right.
Wew will never get anywhere on any of this.
I have studied the Arminian position and the Calvinist position. I understand both sides equally well.
However I am convinced of the reformed position and see that they formed their Theology systematically from the Bible.
I see that the Bible teaches that God is sovereign over everything.
To quote Spurgeon again....
I am fully convinced of this and will bow in reverence to His sovereignty and providence.
This bring peace, joy and comfort in my life and cannot be undone.
My life has been ordained, decreed by the most High.
Psalms 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unshaped substance; And in Your book all of them were written The days that were formed for me, When as yet there was not one of them.
Proverbs 16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from Yahweh.
Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, But Yahweh directs his steps.
Grace and peace to you.
Actually, I was thinking this yesterday. Jesus's words do more to convince me than anything by Paul.
John 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
That should settle the question right there.
The Lord says He lays down His life for the sheep and eleven verses later tells people that they are not His sheep.
People will twist logic in verse 26 completely around 180 degrees to make it say something else.
Jesus says : You do not believe because you are not of My sheep
They say Jesus means: You are not my sheep because you do not believe. Just believe and you will become one of my sheep.
Notice the "as I said to you" I bolded in verse 26. Well, in chapter 8, Jesus told them something:
John 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
Again same logic as the sheep verse.
Jesus: You do not hear because you are not of God.
The anti's say: You are not of God because you do not hear. Just start hearing and then you will also be of God.
Agreed.
I have said this before, I have believed in the Doctrines of Grace before I even knew about John Calvin.
The 5 points are found everywhere in the Bible.
I cannot understand how people do not see this.
All these 5 points do is give God all they glory and none to man.
Jer 31:3
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Jn 17:23-24
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
And if God Loved them as He Loved Christ before the foundation of the world, then He Loved His Church in Christ before the foundation of the world !
Now how could God have Loved all men without exception, being that the only Love revealed is an everlasting Love Jer 31:3 even as His Mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, not upon all without exception, but upon them that fear Him per Ps 103:17
17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
Now, do all men without exception fear God ? NO.
And as His Mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, so also to them He Loved. Now if this be True, those of you who believe in the everlasting punishment of the wicked which scripture teaches Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And those Christ said this to Matt 23:32-33
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
You must conclude that God Loved them from Everlasting to Everlasting, and so He will be Loving them while they are cursed in the everlasting confines of everlasting fire ! How absurd ! 4
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Jn 17:23-24
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
And if God Loved them as He Loved Christ before the foundation of the world, then He Loved His Church in Christ before the foundation of the world !
Now how could God have Loved all men without exception, being that the only Love revealed is an everlasting Love Jer 31:3 even as His Mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, not upon all without exception, but upon them that fear Him per Ps 103:17
17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
Now, do all men without exception fear God ? NO.
And as His Mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, so also to them He Loved. Now if this be True, those of you who believe in the everlasting punishment of the wicked which scripture teaches Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And those Christ said this to Matt 23:32-33
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
You must conclude that God Loved them from Everlasting to Everlasting, and so He will be Loving them while they are cursed in the everlasting confines of everlasting fire ! How absurd ! 4
I guess we'll find out when we get there Elected.
But I will end with this:
Reformed theology makes God to be
unloving
unmerciful
unjust
And, instead, we know He has all of these attributes since they were passed on to us.
Happy Christmas to you and your family.
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Whatever,,,you never replied to my posts 280 and 281.
I know it's difficult to have a serious conversation about this and little tid bits are more popular on these forums.
Let me just say this and then I'll be leaving (aintcha glad?)
Your verses John 8:47, John 10:15 and John 10:26 SAY NOTHING about what you, as a calvinist, believe to be true.
WHERE in any of those 3 verses does it state that God predestined anyone for salvation from the beginning...
Where does it state that this election is based on nothing...
Where does it state that God's grace is irresistible?...
NOWHERE.
The reason you believe what Calvinism teaches is because you READ INTO verses what you believe to be true.
We are told not to ADD to scripture...but the reformed do this all the time.
The next time you read the NT,,,,read about how God loves all of His creation,
how He wishes to save everyone...
how He gives CONDITIONS to salvation so that man can decide where he wishes to spend eternity...
how the gospel....the good news...is offered to everyone.
how man has free will to accept or deny God's offer.
And with that, I wish you a joyous Christmas.
I wish this stuff wouldn't show up just when we're about to sign off.....
Jesus NEVER taught Calvinism.
Jesus taught that God so loved the world...meaning His best creation...US...mankind...
that God offered His Son so that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will be saved.
WHOSOEVER
WHOEVER
Everyone is welcomed.
AND
Not only did Jesus NEVER teach Calvinism because it's simply not biblical....
BUT
Reformed theology was NEVER taught right after Jesus ascended and NO church Father that was taught by the Apostles believed in ANY of the 5 points.
I've posted many of their beliefs...of course you prefer MacArthur to Ignatius who was taught by John.
Augustine began this problem by his HERETICAL belief that man did not possess free will...
an idea he floundered on, back and forth, for this whole life BTW.
John Calvin took this idea from his hero,,,the ONLY church father that EVER had this idea of man not possessing free will and that didn't come about till the 5th century...and Calvin created ALL of the positions of the 5 points from the fact that he believed man has no free will.
This was NEVER believed by the church and was not accepted even AFTER Augustine because it's such an outrageous belief.
I'd like to remind all the reformed here that ALL HERETICAL beliefs came about after the reformation...
1,500 years after Jesus ascended and 1,500 years after the church began. Maybe all the theologians before the calvinists were just too dumb to see the truth?!
You also keep posting that Pelagius did not believe in free will.
I would ask that you stop posting incorrect information that could easily be confirmed on the internet.
Pelagius believed in free will as did every other church father that was in line with church teaching.
Only HERETICS, like the Manechaens from which Augustine derived, had any doubt.
The debate between Pelagius and Augustine was concerning the question of whether or not it was necessary to
have God's grace in order to keep God's commandments.
Pelagius said NO
Augustine said YES
The reason Pelagius believed in free will is the whole concept of WHY he thought mean could keep God's commandments without grace...BECAUSE man has FREE WILL to exercise his choice of two options...a moral good or a moral evil.
Please get your facts straight.
Calvinism is a HERETICAL belief system.
And I don't mean HERETICAL to be an insult.
Everyone on this thread could find out for themselves what it means.
Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. Acts 10:34-35
Whoever refers to individuals from any nation.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Whoever refers to individuals of the world, any nation of the world.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
God shows no partiality in His love towards individuals of this world, that whoever believes in Him and obeys Him, thus fearing Him and doing what’s right in His eyes is accepted by Him.
God requires the same attitude in us His people, that we would love the way He loves so that we would demonstrate that we are truly His children.
You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48
- But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you…
- that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
- Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.