All true belivers in Christ are the elect.
Only 2 types of people saved and unsaved.
This is basic Bible truth.
Does God LOVE everybody
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Only 2 types of people saved and unsaved.
This is basic Bible truth.
That's meaningless as long as only the Lord knows who's elect and who's not, as you said.
To you it is meaningless.
You do not understand.
It is ok.
Grace and peace to you.
So you do? Then enlighten me, are you elect? If yes, is that your ticket to heaven? Does that give you the right to lecture on others whom you deem as not the elect, unintelligent and beneath you? Isn't that pride, the sin of all sins? If no, then what's your point to hang around here and do anything for God since you're condemned to hell? It is you who do not understand why this black and white mentality is immature.
God desires for the elect to also obtain salvation.
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
JLB
The truth is…
God desires for the elect to also obtain salvation.
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
The basic Bible truth is "many are called, few are chosen". I think we can at least agree that the chosen ones are the elect, I believe there's a fixed number of spots for the "elect", the Lord calls first then chooses among whom he called, him on the other hand suggests that the calling is rigged, the chosen ones were predetermined before anybody is called, this sort of fatalism is not biblical.
The Jews are referred to as the elect.
Their election was for the purpose of being the lineage of the Messiah.
Paul earnestly desired to see them also obtain salvation.
For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls. Romans 9:3-11
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10
Jews are a means to the end, not by and of themselves the end.
"Do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. " (Matt. 3:9-10)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:28-29)
The Love that God has for them He Loves Deut 7:6-7 has it's origin in Eternity, premised on His Gift of His Son, whose goings forth hath been from everlasting Mic 5:2, He having been ordained to die for the objects of His Love before the world began 1 Pet 1:20
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you[The Elect 1 Pet 1:1-2]
That God had a distinguishing Love among the human family of men is seen by His words here Mal 1:2
2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, Notice, He did not say that He Loved Esau, Jacobs brother, He made a point to emphasize that !
Here it is affirmed even amongst men of the same human family of siblings, God Loved Jacob only, and not His brother esau. Now the Truth of the matter is this, each one of us falls into the category of either Jacob, those God Loves or esau, those God hates see Rom 9:13, meaning God does not Love ! We can rebel against this Truth all we want, it is not going to change God one bit ! 4
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you[The Elect 1 Pet 1:1-2]
That God had a distinguishing Love among the human family of men is seen by His words here Mal 1:2
2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, Notice, He did not say that He Loved Esau, Jacobs brother, He made a point to emphasize that !
Here it is affirmed even amongst men of the same human family of siblings, God Loved Jacob only, and not His brother esau. Now the Truth of the matter is this, each one of us falls into the category of either Jacob, those God Loves or esau, those God hates see Rom 9:13, meaning God does not Love ! We can rebel against this Truth all we want, it is not going to change God one bit ! 4
Predestination
Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.
The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6). It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious.
The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? We must remember that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23) and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.
If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). The truths of God’s sovereign predestination and also man’s responsibility are not mutually exclusive. Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”
Gotquestions.org
Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.
The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6). It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious.
The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? We must remember that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23) and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.
If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). The truths of God’s sovereign predestination and also man’s responsibility are not mutually exclusive. Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”
Gotquestions.org
Hi Elected....this showed up when I was logging out so I came back to make a couple of statements.
There is hostility toward reformed theology because it changes the nature of God and leaves most of His creation beyond the possibility of being saved. When the bible is read with predisposition...it become obvious that God wants to save the whole world...
BUT He has conditions.
I'm not posting scripture, you don't even have to reply to this since my time is limited.
This is the question!
WHAT is being predestined?
If you read every single verse that the reformed use to show that God choose persons....you would see that it is not a PERSON that is being chosen...but
HOW a person is saved
or for what PURPOSE a person is saved.
It is NEVER the actual individual that is predestined to be saved since that would make God an unjust God.....It would make God a respecter of persons and the NT teaches that God is NOT a respector of persons but treats everyone equally in their opportunity for salvation.
The above is correct.
God PREDESTINED individuals to be CONFORMED TO THE LIKENESS OF HIS SON....
this is a HOW,,,,not a WHO.
No. If God picks certain individuals...HE IS AN UNJUST GOD.
This cannot be denied.
To be just means to give to everyone what they deserve....
In reformed theology, does God give to each person what they deserve?
NO.
If you say that we're ALL BORN SINNERS and we all deserve hell,,,
then the just action to take would be to send ALL PERSONS to hell.
OR
God could set conditions and allow those that meet those conditions to enter into heaven.
Either of the two options above are JUST.
Anything else is not just.
Since we receive our idea of justice from a moral God....
it stands to reason that GOD HIMSELF must surely be a just God.
It IS capricious if the same offer is not made to ALL persons.
Replied to above.
Think about what the above means.
You don't have to have studied philosophy to understand that the concept above is just plain WRONG!
If God is just,,,,then we either ALL GO TO HELL....
or
He MUST GIVE TO EVERYONE the opportunity for heaven.
I can certainly object if I'm serving a God that IS NOT JUST.
Analogies never work well.
None of the persons are going to be spending eternity in hell.
No conditions were given....the NT is FULL of conditions.
The situation is different.
Too many mysteries in reformed theology.
The NT has no mysteries....
It plainly and clearly states HOW a person can be saved.
Both cannot be true.
Something cannot be both white and black.
OK.
Now I read your article...
And I've read many articles by Calvinists.
Will you read one that I post?
It's about how we interpret scripture.
Can People Seek God? Examining a Commonly Misused Bible Verse
It is certainly not uncommon to hear Christians proclaim that no one seeks after God or that no man can seek after God. Often these types of claims come from those within the camp of Reformed theol…
midwestapologetics.org
I have read the article and I understand the "seeking".Hi Elected....this showed up when I was logging out so I came back to make a couple of statements.
There is hostility toward reformed theology because it changes the nature of God and leaves most of His creation beyond the possibility of being saved. When the bible is read with predisposition...it become obvious that God wants to save the whole world...
BUT He has conditions.
I'm not posting scripture, you don't even have to reply to this since my time is limited.
This is the question!
WHAT is being predestined?
If you read every single verse that the reformed use to show that God choose persons....you would see that it is not a PERSON that is being chosen...but
HOW a person is saved
or for what PURPOSE a person is saved.
It is NEVER the actual individual that is predestined to be saved since that would make God an unjust God.....It would make God a respecter of persons and the NT teaches that God is NOT a respector of persons but treats everyone equally in their opportunity for salvation.
The above is correct.
God PREDESTINED individuals to be CONFORMED TO THE LIKENESS OF HIS SON....
this is a HOW,,,,not a WHO.
No. If God picks certain individuals...HE IS AN UNJUST GOD.
This cannot be denied.
To be just means to give to everyone what they deserve....
In reformed theology, does God give to each person what they deserve?
NO.
If you say that we're ALL BORN SINNERS and we all deserve hell,,,
then the just action to take would be to send ALL PERSONS to hell.
OR
God could set conditions and allow those that meet those conditions to enter into heaven.
Either of the two options above are JUST.
Anything else is not just.
Since we receive our idea of justice from a moral God....
it stands to reason that GOD HIMSELF must surely be a just God.
It IS capricious if the same offer is not made to ALL persons.
Replied to above.
Think about what the above means.
You don't have to have studied philosophy to understand that the concept above is just plain WRONG!
If God is just,,,,then we either ALL GO TO HELL....
or
He MUST GIVE TO EVERYONE the opportunity for heaven.
I can certainly object if I'm serving a God that IS NOT JUST.
Analogies never work well.
None of the persons are going to be spending eternity in hell.
No conditions were given....the NT is FULL of conditions.
The situation is different.
Too many mysteries in reformed theology.
The NT has no mysteries....
It plainly and clearly states HOW a person can be saved.
Both cannot be true.
Something cannot be both white and black.
OK.
Now I read your article...
And I've read many articles by Calvinists.
Will you read one that I post?
It's about how we interpret scripture.
Can People Seek God? Examining a Commonly Misused Bible Verse
It is certainly not uncommon to hear Christians proclaim that no one seeks after God or that no man can seek after God. Often these types of claims come from those within the camp of Reformed theol…midwestapologetics.org
Let me say this, I do not agree with the writer about Romans 3.
This is simple, if someone seeks God, that is beacause God is drawing them to seek Him.
I see no mysteries in the Reformed teachings, I also do not believe that the Doctrines of Grace changes Gods character. But what they do, is give 100% sovereignty and glory to God.
Election and predestination are linked. God did predestined His elect to salvation.
Who am I to question what God does or does not do.
Does not the potter have the right over the clay?
GG, we are of different mind sets on the doctrines.
We can go back and forth, but what is the point?
Lets just praise God for His sovereignty and give Him glory.
Grace and peace to you.
At the end of the day it’s the mind of Christ that will matter. Reading and obeying His doctrine.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:16-17
God loves the world; the people of the world who are unsaved.
- God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son
God desires the unsaved people of the world to be saved.
- For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
If you read these simple basic words and come away thinking God hates the unsaved people of the world then you have a serious, serious reading comprehension problem.
JLB
I remember a request for debate on Calvinism . Careful what you wish for . This is what it looks like . There is a safe zone for all things Calvinism .
https://christianforums.net/forums/calvinism.137/
Always want a good debate.
Although, I get that in many forums and nothing ever changes. 90% of the people that call it heretical and from satan do not even understand it. They believe what they are told from others.
Never understood why its called a safe zone.
Is it because so many people are offended by the doctrines of grace and they need to be safe from it?
Truly, those that believe these doctrines do not need a safe space.
90% of the people only hear what they wanna hear and read what they wanna read, any debate is a waste of time. Don't bother to quote any bible verse when it's weaponized to make a point and prick your opponent. I believe "predestination" is referring to a certain NUMBER of individuals for God's church, including both Jews, i.e. "brethren" and gentiles, i.e. fellow servants, that's not the same as "certain individuals".
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. (Rev. 6:11)
