Does God LOVE everybody

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Whatever,,,you never replied to my posts 280 and 281.
Like another person here, I have gotten tired spending the time replying to posts just to have them answered with junk like this:
that God offered His Son so that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will be saved.
WHOSOEVER
WHOEVER


And
The reason you believe what Calvinism teaches is because you READ INTO verses what you believe to be true.

There is no sense of trying to communicate with junk like this.
 
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Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Romans 3:
9
What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written:
There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now, with the above, and then reading "whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." It sounds to me that God wouldn't be able to accept anybody - Jew or Greek.

Unless:
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Notice the word "will" you free willers.

So, in every nation God works in elect people to will and do for His good pleasure, and then they fear Him and work righteousness and He accepts them. But to you that is God being partial.

Sounds like partiality to me:
Deuteronomy 10:15 The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.

1Kings 8:53
For You separated them from among all the peoples of the earth to be Your inheritance, as You spoke by Your servant Moses, when You brought our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD."

Deuteronomy 7:7
The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers . . .

I see partiality all over the place as regards Israel.
 
Like another person here, I have gotten tired spending the time replying to posts just to have them answered with junk like this:
that God offered His Son so that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will be saved.
WHOSOEVER
WHOEVER
What JESUS said in John 3:16 is JUNK!!

OK. Now we know what Jesus said is JUNK,,,
but what John Calvin said is truth.
Amazing.

In calvinism WORLD does not mean world...
ALL does not mean all.....
no distinction is made using text analysis.

EVERYONE means EVERYONE: Here's some more JUNK for you....

1 John 3:4

4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness
so everyone who practices sin is NOT lawless?

John 8:34
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Was Jesus wrong here too?


Acts 2:21
Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Maybe some who call on the name of the Lord will NOT be saved?

Romans 2:6
He will judge everyone according to what they have done.

Besides confirming HOW someone will be judged,,,,and not by predestination.

Matthew 7:21

Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Maybe everyone WILL get into heaven?

Romans 12:18
Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone.

Maybe Paul meant that we should NOT live in peace with everyone?

There are many more...
unfortunately, I don't have the time.

EVERYONE MEANS EVERYONE.
No matter what Calvinism teaches.
Text analysis is good when reading the NT.



This is what the NT teaches:
EVERYONE who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
EVERYONE
WHOSOEVER
WHOEVER





And
The reason you believe what Calvinism teaches is because you READ INTO verses what you believe to be true.
This cannot be denied. Reformed theology MUST read into verses to make them agree with calvinism.
If the NT is simply read...it's impossible to come away thinking God loves only a few lucky people
and condemns the rest to hell.

God desires ALL to be saved.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live;

Ezekiel 18:32
For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

1 Timothy 2:1
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,

Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (NOT IS saved.....context, grammar).

Isaiah 45:22
“Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. ( IF ANYONE)



There are plenty more.
IF you can post verses to show the opposite is true...
then we have a big conflict in scripture.
Can YOU reconcile the conflict?
No. You will not be able to because your belief system has you boxed in.
Other Christians, denominations, OTOH,,,can easily explain away any SEEMING conflict.



There is no sense of trying to communicate with junk like this.
It's good to hear that you think scripture is junk.
It explains a lot.

I believe you didn't reply to my posts 280 and 281 because you are UNABLE to since they
portray the TRUTH found in the NT. Or maybe God just didn't predestine you to support your views.

Did you ever take note of all the verses you have to pull out from the OT to prove some point?
How about sticking to the NT where NO POETRY, or other types of writing, is involved and ONLY THE WORDS OF GOD HIMSELF?
I do believe you'd find that impossible to do in your theology.
 
Like another person here, I have gotten tired spending the time replying to posts just to have them answered with junk like this:
that God offered His Son so that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will be saved.
WHOSOEVER
WHOEVER


And
The reason you believe what Calvinism teaches is because you READ INTO verses what you believe to be true.

There is no sense of trying to communicate with junk like this.
PS
I would NEVER tire of upholding the Word of God.
His love for humanity
His mercy toward us
His justice in giving to each person what they deserve.
 
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Romans 3:
9
What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written:
There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now, with the above, and then reading "whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." It sounds to me that God wouldn't be able to accept anybody - Jew or Greek.

Unless:
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Notice the word "will" you free willers.

So, in every nation God works in elect people to will and do for His good pleasure, and then they fear Him and work righteousness and He accepts them. But to you that is God being partial.

Sounds like partiality to me:

Here you go:
Another conflict.

SO
Is God partial or not???

Does God love everyone or not???

So many conflicts created by Calvinism.


Deuteronomy 10:15 The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.

1Kings 8:53 For You separated them from among all the peoples of the earth to be Your inheritance, as You spoke by Your servant Moses, when You brought our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD."

Deuteronomy 7:7 The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers . . .

I see partiality all over the place as regards Israel.
 
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His justice in giving to each person what they deserve.
But God doesn't give each person what they deserve.
To deserve means to be worthy of something, such as a reward or punishment, based on one's actions or qualities. It implies that someone has earned or is entitled to a particular outcome.

Christians do not deserve God's grace. Unless you think that believing is a work that deserves something.
Just flippantly reading through the Bible does seem to give people this idea. We have all sinned and deserve Hell, but God gives everybody a chance to escape that punishment by earning it by accepting the gospel.

But it is clear to me that God's plan was to "bring many sons to glory (Heb 2:10) not every person. To redeem a multitude of of people from all over the world (Rev 5:9) not everybody. And that these people were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) and the Father gave them to Jesus (John 17:6) and Jesus laid down His life for them (John 10:15) and that Jesus told people to their faces that they were not of His sheep (Joh 10:26) and that they were not of God (Joh 8:47)

The "of" according to Strongs is "A primary preposition denoting origin."
 
Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Maybe some who call on the name of the Lord will NOT be saved?
Correct some will not be saved.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

He will judge everyone according to what they have done.
Besides confirming HOW someone will be judged,,,,and not by predestination.
This is screwed up thinking. Christians will not be judged by what they have done.
Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. They receive mercy because they were chosen by the Father and given to Jesus and He lays down His life for them.

Text analysis is good when reading the NT.
The problem is, you are not doing that.
 
I guess we'll find out when we get there Elected.
But I will end with this:
Reformed theology makes God to be
unloving
unmerciful
unjust

And, instead, we know He has all of these attributes since they were passed on to us.

Happy Christmas to you and your family.
Yes, we definately will find out.

Perhaps we are all wrong.

I do not see how you get that from the Reformed, but so be it.

And a Merry Christmas to you and your family.
 
I wish this stuff wouldn't show up just when we're about to sign off.....

Jesus NEVER taught Calvinism.
Jesus taught that God so loved the world...meaning His best creation...US...mankind...
that God offered His Son so that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will be saved.
WHOSOEVER
WHOEVER

Everyone is welcomed.

AND

Not only did Jesus NEVER teach Calvinism because it's simply not biblical....
BUT
Reformed theology was NEVER taught right after Jesus ascended and NO church Father that was taught by the Apostles believed in ANY of the 5 points.
I've posted many of their beliefs...of course you prefer MacArthur to Ignatius who was taught by John.

Augustine began this problem by his HERETICAL belief that man did not possess free will...
an idea he floundered on, back and forth, for this whole life BTW.

John Calvin took this idea from his hero,,,the ONLY church father that EVER had this idea of man not possessing free will and that didn't come about till the 5th century...and Calvin created ALL of the positions of the 5 points from the fact that he believed man has no free will.
This was NEVER believed by the church and was not accepted even AFTER Augustine because it's such an outrageous belief.

I'd like to remind all the reformed here that ALL HERETICAL beliefs came about after the reformation...
1,500 years after Jesus ascended and 1,500 years after the church began. Maybe all the theologians before the calvinists were just too dumb to see the truth?!

You also keep posting that Pelagius did not believe in free will.
I would ask that you stop posting incorrect information that could easily be confirmed on the internet.

Pelagius believed in free will as did every other church father that was in line with church teaching.
Only HERETICS, like the Manechaens from which Augustine derived, had any doubt.

The debate between Pelagius and Augustine was concerning the question of whether or not it was necessary to
have God's grace in order to keep God's commandments.
Pelagius said NO
Augustine said YES

The reason Pelagius believed in free will is the whole concept of WHY he thought mean could keep God's commandments without grace...BECAUSE man has FREE WILL to exercise his choice of two options...a moral good or a moral evil.

Please get your facts straight.

Calvinism is a HERETICAL belief system.

And I don't mean HERETICAL to be an insult.
Everyone on this thread could find out for themselves what it means.

:wave


I have posted many articles on this and have many more.

Calvinism is a HERETICAL belief system.
This is your opinion

Pelagius and his free will teaching were condemned as heretical as I have shown. The resources on Pelagius are sound and I have multiple sources that all say the same thing.

Not only did Jesus NEVER teach Calvinism because it's simply not biblical....

The Old and New Testaments teach these doctrines as well, especially Paul.

JESUS ON TOTAL DEPRAVITY
Mark 7:15-23
Mark 10:18
Luke 18:9–14, Jesus commends the tax collector’s realistic view of himself as “a sinner.
John 8:34
John 3:19-21
John 8:44
Matthew 7:18

JESUS ON UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
John 13:18
John 6:37-40
John 17:6-9
John 10:29
Matthew 11:25-30
Matthew 22:14

JESUS ON LIMITED ATONEMENT
John 10:11
John 10:15
Matthew 26:28
Luke 19:10
John 6:35-40

JESUS ON IRRESISTABLE GRACE
John 1:12-13
John 6:63-65
John 17:2
John 6:44
John 6:37
John 11:43

JESUS ON PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
John 6:39-40
John 10:27-30
John 5:24
John 6:47
John 17:2
John 3:16
 
Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. Acts 10:34-35


Whoever refers to individuals from any nation.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Whoever refers to individuals of the world, any nation of the world.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17



God shows no partiality in His love towards individuals of this world, that whoever believes in Him and obeys Him, thus fearing Him and doing what’s right in His eyes is accepted by Him.


God requires the same attitude in us His people, that we would love the way He loves so that we would demonstrate that we are truly His children.


You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48


  • But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you…
  • that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
  • Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
You're still misusing it. "no partiality" is referring to Jews and Gentiles alike, since he says "in every nation." At that time Jews were prejudiced against Gentiles and called them "dogs." It does NOT mean "everyone alike," since it says "whoever fears Him and works righteousness." You're forgetting that few fear God and work righteousness, therefore few are accepted of Him.

But according to YOUR definition of love - that God loves everyone equally - then God accepts everyone equally, and that means universalism, because everyone is saved. But I contend that God loves those He saves more than those He doesn't.

Even if you deny that, you claim God loves everyone equally, but the verse says that God accepts whoever fears Him and works righteousness. So then, if you refuse the logic to universalism, since according to you God loves everyone equally, then His acceptance is merited by someone who fears Him and works righteousness, is it not?
 
Romans 3:
9
What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written:
There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now, with the above, and then reading "whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." It sounds to me that God wouldn't be able to accept anybody - Jew or Greek.

Unless:
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Notice the word "will" you free willers.

So, in every nation God works in elect people to will and do for His good pleasure, and then they fear Him and work righteousness and He accepts them. But to you that is God being partial.

Sounds like partiality to me:
Deuteronomy 10:15 The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.

1Kings 8:53 For You separated them from among all the peoples of the earth to be Your inheritance, as You spoke by Your servant Moses, when You brought our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD."

Deuteronomy 7:7 The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers . . .

I see partiality all over the place as regards Israel.

The Jews were chosen for purpose.

The purpose was being the lineage through which the Messiah would come.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5
 
But according to YOUR definition of love - that God loves everyone equally - then God accepts everyone equally,

Loving people and desiring them to do what’s right and be saved is God’s position for mankind.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved
. John 3:16-17


Those who are accepted into His kingdom is another matter.


Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. Acts 10:34-35
 
But it is clear to me that God's plan was to "bring many sons to glory (Heb 2:10) not every person. To redeem a multitude of of people from all over the world (Rev 5:9) not everybody. And that these people were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) and the Father gave them to Jesus (John 17:6) and Jesus laid down His life for them (John 10:15) and that Jesus told people to their faces that they were not of His sheep (Joh 10:26) and that they were not of God (Joh 8:47)

Stating your opinion and then tagging it with a scripture reference without actually posting the scripture is what I see many people who follow Calvinism practice.

I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. John 17:6


Some interesting things we can observe by examining this scripture.

The disciples belonged the Father.
The disciples then belonged to Jesus.
The disciples kept God’s word.

Then one of the disciples became lost.


That would be the end of the Calvinism, OSAS
manmade theory.
 
Stating your opinion and then tagging it with a scripture reference without actually posting the scripture is what I see many people who follow Calvinism practice.

I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. John 17:6


Some interesting things we can observe by examining this scripture.

The disciples belonged the Father.
The disciples then belonged to Jesus.
The disciples kept God’s word.

Then one of the disciples became lost.


That would be the end of the Calvinism, OSAS
manmade theory.
In context

John 17:6-10 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. “Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. “I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.

John 17:6-10

They were Yours. This phrase sums up all of Jesus' ministry, including the cross that was just hours away. Again, the Son emphasized that those who believed in Him were given by the Father (see note on Joh_17:2). "They were Yours" (cf. Joh_17:9) is a potent assertion that before conversion, they belonged to God (cf. Joh_6:37). That is true because of God's election. They were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph_1:4), when their names were written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev_17:8). Cf. Act_18:10, where God says He has many people in Corinth who belong to Him, but are not yet saved. See notes on Joh_10:1-5, Joh_10:16.

That would be the end of you Arminian position.
 
That would be the end of the Calvinism, OSAS
manmade theory.
You think so because you don't know what "Saved" really means. To you it is anybody who professes faith and gets baptized.

You think Judas was born again because Jesus picked him. But Jesus tells us why He picked him.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Strongs says of "perdition" apōleia = ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste

"That the Scripture might be fulfilled" Psalm 41:9 Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, Who ate my bread, Has lifted up his heel against me.

John 13:18 "I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS BREAD WITH ME HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.' 19 Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

Judas was not saved and never lost any salvation. Professing faith is not salvation. Getting baptized is not salvation.
What is salvation is being born again.

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"Whatever" = Nominative case, singular number, neuter gender adjective. Gr. "all that is begotten of God." The neuter expresses the universal whole, or aggregate of the regenerate, regarded as one collective body

Jesus tells us that only those who endure to the end (overcomes the world) will be saved.

Mat 10:22 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

You think people who simply profess faith and get baptized are saved. When they don't endure to the end, you will say "they lost their salvation."

Jesus and John teach that those who don't endure to the end were never saved.

Calvinism teaches the same thing as Jesus and John. If you are truly born again (saved) you will not fall away but you will endure to the end.
 
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The Jews were chosen for purpose.

The purpose was being the lineage through which the Messiah would come.
That doesn't prove anything.

Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers,

God chose Abraham to give the promises to and to His seed.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I also wonder, since Jesus was born of a virgin, Mary had no Abrahamic male sperm to fertilize her egg. God did it supernaturally. Jesus could not really literally be the seed of Abraham, Jacob, Issac. or David. It is only so because God declares it so.

Matthew 3:9
and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
 
All those God Loved have something in common with one another, that those God does not love do not have !

First they were Chosen in Christ before the world began, they were all Loved from everlasting Jer 31:3

Secondly, they have Christ as their Surety and Covenant Head from Everlasting !


Third, they have a accomplished redemption !

Fourthly, They receive the Gift of Eternal Life !

Fifth, They are quickened out of being dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:5

Lastly, they will Love God Rom 8:28; 1 Jn 4:9

We love him, because he first loved us.

I recall Jesus saying to some jews this Jn 8:42

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

God's Love to a person shall causes that person to Love God and Christ !

So whoever dies in this condition 1 Cor 16:22

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.


That person was never Loved by God ! 4
 
I have posted my understanding of these passages:
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me
John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep

Nobody has challenged my understanding of these verses. Probably because they can't. They are just ignored.
So I asked a non-Calvinist 3rd party. Chatgpt.

The logical cause-and-effect relationship in John 10:26-27 centers around belief and identity. Here's a breakdown:

Effect: Hearing and Following Jesus (v. 27)
Those who are His sheep (followers) hear His voice, are known by Him, and follow Him.
This implies an intimate relationship between Jesus and His followers, marked by recognition (hearing), mutual knowledge (being known), and obedience (following).

Cause: Being His Sheep (v. 26)
Jesus states that those who do not believe are not part of His sheep.
Belonging to His flock is presented as the foundation for recognizing and responding to His voice.

The teaching illustrates a spiritual order:

Identity precedes action: Being part of His flock (identity) enables one to believe, hear, and follow Him (action).
Unbelief is evidence of not being part of His flock: Those who do not believe in Jesus reveal that they are not His sheep.

This cause-and-effect relationship teaches that faith and recognition of Jesus are not merely intellectual or voluntary acts but stem from a deeper spiritual belonging and divine connection. It also underscores the idea of God's sovereignty in calling and knowing His sheep, while human responsibility is seen in the response to His call.

That last part is better than anything I ever came up with = faith and recognition of Jesus are not merely intellectual or voluntary acts but stem from a deeper spiritual belonging and divine connection.
This was also better than anything I came up with in the past = Identity precedes action: Being part of His flock (identity) enables one to believe, hear, and follow Him (action).
 
Some may be interested in this comment Romans 9:13.
(edited for length)



Additional Reflections on Election and Reprobation

As is well-known, this passage (Rom. 9:13) is considered a prooftext for the doctrine of predestination: election and reprobation. Predestination is God’s eternal purpose whereby he has foreordained whatever comes to pass (Eph. 1:11). Election may be defined as God’s eternal purpose to cause certain specific individuals to be in Christ the recipients of special grace, in order that they may live to God’s glory and may obtain everlasting salvation (Luke 10:20; Acts 13:48; Rom. 11:5; Eph. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13). Reprobation is God’s eternal purpose to pass by certain specific individuals in the bestowment of special grace, ordaining them to everlasting punishment for their sins (Rom. 9:13, 17, 18, 21, 22; 1 Peter 2:8).271

Although both of these decrees are equally ultimate, it would be wrong to say that they are co-ordinate in every respect. For example, although sin is indeed the meriting cause of the punishment mentioned in the definition of the decree of reprobation, faith is not the meriting cause of the salvation to which the definition of the decree of election refers. Also—to quote from my published translation of Dr. H. Bavinck’s Doctrine of God272—“In a certain sense, the fall, sin, and eternal punishment are included in God’s decree and willed by him. But this is true in a certain sense only, and not in the same sense as grace and salvation. These are the objects of his delight, but God does not delight in sin, neither has he pleasure in punishment.”

The question is often asked, “How was it possible for a Loving God to ordain certain individuals to everlasting punishment?” A more logical question would be, “How was it possible for a God whose righteousness demands that sin be punished, to ordain some individuals to everlasting life and glory?” Surely “the wonder of it all” is the substitutionary death of Christ!

The Westminster Confession of the year 1647 has this to say about Election and Reprobation:

God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established—Ch. iii, I

Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto, and all to the praise of his glorious grace.—Ch. iii, V

The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice—Ch iii, VII

A couple additional matters should not be omitted:

a. “The reprobate receive many blessings, which do not result from the decree of reprobation, but from the goodness and grace of God. They receive many natural gifts: life, health, strength, food, happiness, etc. (Matt. 5:45; Acts 14:17; 17:28; Rom. 1:19; James 1:17, etc.). Also with respect to the reprobate, God does not leave himself without witness. He endures them with much longsuffering (Rom. 9:22). He causes the gospel of his grace to be proclaimed to them, and has no pleasure in their death (Ezek. 18:23; 33:11; Matt. 23:37; Luke 19:41; 24:47; John 3:16; Acts 17:30; Rom. 11:32; 1 Thess. 5:9; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9).”273

Cain was a reprobate. Of this there can be no doubt (1 John 3:12; Jude 11). Yet, how tenderly God addressed him! (Gen. 4:6, 7).

b. There is a problem that must be faced. Our Creeds, as has been shown, proceed from the infralapsarian position, according to which those people who were destined for glory were chosen out of the state of sin and destruction into which they had plunged themselves; and those destined for perdition were, by God’s decree, left in that state. The question, however, arises, “Why did God at all allow the fall to take place?”

To that question there is no answer, except it be that of Deut. 29:29, “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever …” And that of Job 11:7, 8,

Can you by searching fathom God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
They are higher than the heavens—what can you do?
Deeper than Sheol—what can you know?

Permit me to quote once more from my translation of Bavinck’s Doctrine of God, this time p. 396:
Round about us we observe so many facts which seem to be unreasonable, so much undeserved suffering, so many unaccountable calamities, such an uneven and inexplicable distribution of destiny, and such an enormous contrast between the extremes of joy and sorrow, that anyone reflecting on these things, is forced to choose between viewing this universe as if it were governed by the blind will of an unbenign deity as is done by pessimism; or, upon the basis of Scripture and by faith, to rest in the absolute and sovereign, yet—however incomprehensible—wise and holy will of him who will one day cause the full light of heaven to dawn upon these mysteries of life.

Among the many objections that have been raised against the doctrine of election and reprobation, and particularly against the view that Rom. 9:13 supports this doctrine, are the following:

Objection a. Election, yes; reprobation, no! Neither Rom. 9:13 nor any other biblical passage teaches reprobation.

Comment. That Scripture does indeed teach both election and reprobation has been shown, See above, p. 320. Besides, election and reprobation stand and fall together. Those whom the Lord does not elect he rejects. God’s counsel is all-comprehensive (Prov. 16:4; Eph. 1:11).

Moreover, when God elects a person, he not merely decides to cause him to enter heaven at last, but guides him all the way from conception to glorification. David proclaims this truth in Ps. 139:16, which, in rhyme, is as follows:

Ere into being I was brought,

Thine eye did see, and in thy thought,

My life in all its perfect plan

Was ordered ere my days began.

Now the believer does not live in a vacuum, and between his life and that of the unbeliever there is no Chinese Wall. The life of the elect and that of the non-elect are so thoroughly intertwined—at play, in school, in the place of businesss, in factory, in government, etc.—that any divine plan that affects the elect must also affect the non-elect, without canceling human accountability in either case. A half plan is no plan at all. Many a battle has been lost because this or that small (?) item had been excluded.

Objection b. The divine oracle (Mal. 1:2, 3), quoted by Paul in Rom. 9:13, really means, “Jacob have I loved intensely, but Esau have I loved less.”

Comment. The verb used in the original for to hate can indeed have the meaning to love less. See N.T.C. on Luke, pp. 734, 735. The question is, “Does it have that meaning here (Rom. 9:13)?” Clearly, it does not! The context of Mal. 1:2, 3 is one of the judgment, punishment, indignation: “… Esau have I hated, and made his mountains a desolation … They will build, but I will throw down.” Also, when Esau receives his father’s “blessing,” that blessing amounts to what might almost be called a curse. Correctly translated, it begins as follows,

“Away from the fatness of the earth will be your dwelling, and away from the dew of heaven from above” (Gen. 27:39). In fact, the “blessing” was of such a negative nature, and the deception by Jacob so painful, that Esau hated Jacob because of what had happened, and threatened to kill him. Conclusion: “loved less” will not do for Mal. 1:3 or for Rom. 9:13. These passages refer to reprobation, nothing less.

Objection c. Gen. 25:22, 23 and Mal. 1:2, 3 do not refer to individuals, Jacob and Esau, but to nations, Israel and Edom.

Comment. Though it is true that in Gen. 25:22, 23 the text turns quickly from babes to nations, nevertheless the starting-point has to do with persons, not nations. The words, “Two nations are in your womb” can, of course, not be taken literally. The meaning is, “The two babes within your womb will become rival nations.”

The Malachi context is similar. Here too the starting-point is certainly personal: “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother … yet I loved Jacob but Esau I hated.” Paul had every right, therefore, to apply these passages to persons, as he did.

Objection d. The doctrine of a twofold predestination—election and reprobation—is wrong because Jacob is always Esau also, and Esau is also Jacob; or, again, in each of us there is a Jacob and an Esau, etc.

Comment. Can anyone really believe that this is actually what Scripture is saying in these passages?

Having examined the objections, the result is that the doctrine of divine election and reprobation, based, among other passages, on Rom. 9:13, stands. The arguments against it are shallow and fallacious. See also the excellent “Paper” by F. H. Klooster, “Predestination: A Calvinistic Note,” in Perspectives on Evangelical Theology, Grand Rapids, 1979, pp. 81–94.<sup>[1]</sup>

William Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker, Exposition of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans,