- Jul 15, 2022
- 3,577
- 1,503
-
-
-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
-
-
-
-
Does God LOVE everybody
- Thread starter Whatever
- Start date
- Status
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
Why would God require His children to love if He doesn’t love?
Jesus said we are to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect by loving everyone as He loves everyone.
But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:44-48
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
If a person is removed from being in Christ are they still saved?
- Jul 15, 2022
- 3,577
- 1,503
- Jul 15, 2022
- 3,577
- 1,503
John 15:6 “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
This is an unbeliever, this is a picture of judgement of those that were never saved.
Many claim to be saved and are not really regenerated, they are imposters or tares.
I Never Knew You
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matthew 7:22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, in Your name did we not prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many miracles?’
Matthew 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
John uses murder to identify how God feels about hate.
A brother in Christ who hates his brother his a murderer.
…and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
By saying abiding (remaining) in him we see the eternal life was indeed in him, but it did not remain in him because of hate.
Very simple. Undeniable.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
How is an “unbeliever” in Christ?
Being in Christ is the very definition of eternal life.
Try again.
- Jul 15, 2022
- 3,577
- 1,503
1 John was referring to the false teachers, that was why he wrote 1 John no?
False teachers claim to be "brothers" in Christ.
1 John 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Who is the "everyone" in 1 John 3:15?
I do not believe that is a Christian.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
Everyone who is a brother in Christ who hates his brother is a murderer… you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
- has eternal life abiding in him.
For a person to have eternal life remaining in him, must first have eternal life in him.
Hating his brother is catalyst that causes the eternal life not to remain in him.
The eternal life that was in him, is no longer remaining in him.
Being in Christ is how we have eternal life abiding in us because we are joined to, being one spirit with the Spirit of life in Christ.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17
The context is clear as John brings the reader to this conclusion.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
His command to us is to love; Love God and love our neighbor.
JLB
- Jul 15, 2022
- 3,577
- 1,503
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
What would “his brother” refer to if not a brother in Christ?
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. 1 John 1:1-4
John is writing to and addressing Christian brothers.
It doesn’t matter if an unbeliever hates or not, because they don’t have eternal life in them.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
Here is your post that I quoted.
Please show me the question you asked in this post that I did not answer?
Here was my answer to the only question I saw.
Everyone who is a brother in Christ who hates his brother is a murderer… you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
- has eternal life abiding in him.
For a person to have eternal life remaining in him, must first have eternal life in him.
Everyone = Everyone who is a brother in Christ…
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Whoever = Whoever is a brother in Christ…
- Jul 15, 2022
- 3,577
- 1,503
- Apr 28, 2018
- 938
- 452
It's because you're not reading what I wrote.
"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)"
But just in case you can't understand what Paul is saying: grace is God's action to raise whoever He wants from spiritual death to spiritual life and place us in Christ. This is how Paul defines grace in this statement. And it is motivated by God's love for the person He elects to adopt as His own child - Eph. 1:5, 2:4.
According to this, it is not possible that God loves everyone the same, otherwise He would act this way toward everyone. And we know He doesn't.
[copied and pasted]
Your definition sounds ok, but is inadequate. I suspect it's loaded with assumptions, for example I think that it has the idea of God's power to live rightly made available, but the willingness to use it depends on the man's will. If this is your view, I disagree. Ref. Phil. 4:13.
- Apr 28, 2018
- 938
- 452
I acknowledge that God has a common love for mankind as His creation, and that He has some level of desire for all people to be saved. This is how I interpret God's love in a general sense toward people in general. But "many are called, few are chosen."
To get us on the same page, the issue I'm trying to address is what I assert is a false idea, that God loves everyone the same. I have already disproved that theory concerning the prooftext "God is not a respector of persons." I have also disproved the theory based on the fact that God saves some and not others. Since Eph. 1:5 and 2:4 clearly says that God saving us is motivated by His love, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that God loves those He saves more than those He doesn't save (and not in the same way).
Then we are confronted with how God chooses those He wants to save. The scripture is clear that God is motivated by His love in saving individuals, so it has to mean that God loves those He actually saves, which are His elect, more than those He passes by. Since "agape" means to do what is best for another without regard to their status in relationship, God does the good of saving some, but not others. The saving of some is because of God's unmerited grace He bestows on those He loves and has chosen for salvation.
Yet you continue to avoid the question, because you are afraid to admit you could be wrong about your assumptions in the way you interpret John 3:16. The question is regarding how God chooses those He saves. There are only 3 ways of choosing it that I know of:
1. random chance
2. merited action
3. unmerited action
I get that you don't want to answer the question because you know that your idea that "God loves everyone the same" leads to salvation by merited action. It's simple logic - God loves the wicked unregenerate man the same as the one born of God. But if this is true, then how did the one born of God come into that condition of spirit? According to Eph. 2:5, God must act on a spiritually dead person to bring him to life. So why would He do that for one unrighteous person and not another? If God loves everyone equally, then a person must do some action to get God to raise his spirit from the dead, and this would be salvation by merited action. IOW, salvation by merited grace. Can you prove me wrong in this, or bad logic? I think not.
You have already admitted that grace is unmerited, so if you tried to address this vital question, you would end up contradicting yourself. At this point, I'm wondering if you will express clarity in the matter, or if you will merely continue to argue.
- Jul 15, 2022
- 3,577
- 1,503
brightfame52
Member
- Dec 3, 2020
- 5,171
- 893
- Thread starter
- #478
He is our creator. He has the right to require anything of us He wants.
From a purely worldly point of view, our lives and the lives of everybody else would be better if we all loved everybody else as we loved ourselves.
We wouldn't have people starting somebody on fire in the subway as one example.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
So I’m right, you haven’t defined grace. You just quoted some scriptures that have the word grace in it.
Grace is the God given ability (unmerited) to do what we can not do on our own.
Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.
Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29
Like truth, grace is both something as well as Someone.
Without the Holy Spirit we can not accomplish God’s will they way Jesus or the people God used in the Bible.
Take Noah for instance.
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7
When God spoke to Noah, warning him of the flood, and telling him to build the ark, Noah received faith as well as grace to accomplish building the ark;
God imparts faith and grace to us when He speaks to us.
Faith is the substance of the thing He wants us to accomplish and grace is the power and ability to accomplish the thing He wants to accomplish through us.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,903
- 8,148
I agree.
- Status