Does God LOVE everybody

[Fastfredy0]

I know there is no convincing you [JLB] so I will leave it alone.

Amen

 

[JLB]

You're not proving anything at all. It's an action noun, as I explained before. You're just not paying attention. Examine carefully the way Paul is using it in Eph. 2:5. He explains the action that God does to make an individual His child by giving life in Christ, that is, raising them to spiritual life, and he calls it "saved by grace." - BY GRACE. This means grace is the ACTION that God does to a person to save them.

Your "it's a noun" narrative is therefore invalid. I know what you're trying to do, which is evade the fact that God decides which people are born of Him, and it has to do with God committing an act of love for that person that He doesn't do for others. This proves that God loves some more than others.

But of course you will deny it, because you just want to argue about it.

Actually I don't want to argue, just discuss what the scriptures teach.

The scriptures plainly teach us that God loves the unsaved people of the world and desires for them to be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17


3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 1 Timothy 2:3-6


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


God loves the unsaved people of the world and wants them to be saved.


Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Whatever]

Please use scripture.

I know it must be confusing for you to discover what the bible actually teaches, but please make your point with scripture.

Okay! You say: God desires all men to be saved. And that God is not willing for any to perish.
Let's see what God says.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

The word "pleasure" above means = pleasure; delight; desire; request

God says He will do all His desire. If if it was God's desire to save all men, He will do it.
But He apparently isn't doing it.

So either God lied or you are misunderstanding those verses you quote. I think God means what He said.

God desires all manner of men to be saved.
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation
God accomplishes His desire to save all manner (all kinds) of man.

I am not pulling that "all manner" out of a hat.

Young's Literal Translation
Acts 10:11 and he doth behold the heaven opened, and descending unto him a certain vessel, as a great sheet, bound at the four corners, and let down upon the earth, 12 in which were all the four-footed beasts of the +earth, and the wild beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the heaven,
in which were all the four-footed beasts of the earth, and the wild beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the heaven,

King James
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

NIV
12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds.

Can you see the difference?
all the four-footed beasts
all manner of fourfooted beasts
all kinds of four-footed animals

That little Greek word "pas" is used both ways.

 

[Whatever]

Actually I don't want to argue, just discuss what the scriptures teach.

God loves the unsaved people of the world and wants them to be saved.
Do you agree or disagree?

You say you want to discuss what the Scriptures teach. But you did not give one passage of Scripture that actually says what you say you think it teaches. Here are a few of mine:

Psalm_11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Psalm_145:20 The LORD preserves all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.
Prov_15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, But He loves him who follows righteousness.
Prov_15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked, But He hears the prayer of the righteous.

 

[tdidymas]

Actually I don't want to argue, just discuss what the scriptures teach.

The scriptures plainly teach us that God loves the unsaved people of the world and desires for them to be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17


3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 1 Timothy 2:3-6


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


God loves the unsaved people of the world and wants them to be saved.


Do you agree or disagree?

I agree with what these scriptures say. But I don't agree with your erroneous interpretation that God loves everyone equally. I don't believe you want to discuss what the scriptures teach, because you have repeatedly avoided answering my clear questions, and have not responded to much of the teaching that I have laid out clearly. So then, your evasion is just typical of what you have been doing, which makes conversing with you a big waste of time, with this endless debate. I'm done with you.

 

[brightfame52]

Jn 3:16

16"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God's Love for the World of the Elect, His People, though they were born by Nature as others, most unholy sinners, but because of God's Great Love for them, He never for a second legally condemned them, neither have they ever been under His punitive wrath. For those things are not consistent with His Great Love for them ! It was God's Love that sent Christ into the world to redeem those He Loved Jn 3:16-17;1 Jn 3:16;4:9-10. All the condemnation legally that the Elect deserved for their revolt against God in Adam, had already been imputed to Christ, their Surety before the foundation of the world ! 5

 

[JLB]

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Where does it say here that God hates some men?

Please read the clear and plain words from our Lord -

• God desires all men to be saved.
• God loves the world.
• The blood of Jesus was shed for our sins and the whole world.
• God desires all men to come to repentance.
• Jesus was a ransom for all men.
• Jesus was sent that the world through Him might be saved.

If you choose to believe these words are a lie, then that is your choice.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17


3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 1 Timothy 2:3-6


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

 

[Whatever]

Where does it say here that God hates some men?

Psalm_11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

You don't think it is talking about men? Maybe it's only women.

You are making a illogical leap thinking that because God loves the world that He loves everybody in it.

Liberals love the United States, but they hate Republicans, conservatives, christians and so forth.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

God loves the world in its entirety and loves everyone individually. What is missing in the debate so far is an internalized understanding that God has put in place before space and time a plan for creation based in contingencies.

Suppose you see a society behaving orderly and obeying laws. Hidden beyond the surface of observed behavior is a system of rewards and punishments that would manifest itself anytime the law is broken.

Back to God's plan. God created man to have free will and to choose a course of action as it pleases man. God loves everyone individually for it provides an opportunity for salvation for everyone. Satan knows that and gets in the way. It's Satan who is authoritarian and wants all to be slaves and hates humanity. God loves all people and has set a system of incentives in place to reward embracing his way and abstaining from wickedness.

So, God loves everyone by providing free will and has set up a system of rewards and punishments in place for people to choose as they see fit. However, God hates the wickedness of Satan and the way in his plan humans embrace wickedness. Yet, in his mercy until one dies salvation is always present as a possibility.

God loved so the world and everyone that sent his only Son to die in the cross so that everyone's sins can be washed away under certain conditions of course. Sorry, but anyone that forgets that and disputes God's love for everyone needs to go back to the basics of their faith and ask themselves some hard questions.

That's all I can contribute to this thread. Blessings!

 

[brightfame52]

Jn 17:9,20

9 I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also who shall believe in Me through their word,

Christ refused to pray for the world in general, but for those only who belonged to Him, Believers in Him and those who shall Believe in the Future. Those Christ refused to pray for are those of the reprobate world, those whom God Created as vessels of wrath, and children of hell ! Rom 9:22

22What if God, choosing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction;


Matt 23:15,33

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers! How can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Now it is insanity to suppose that Christ Loved these people and that He gave Himself for them as He Loved and gave Himself for the Church Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,

No real Christian should pray for none but those God has given to Christ, those who shall believe in Him, that is being Christ like.

It is blasphemy to even suggest that Christ came to redeem the children of the devil, whom shall perish in their sins, in God's Justice and Vengeance 2 Thess 1:8

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If Christ death was for these, if God Loved them Jn 3:16, then it was in vain ! 6

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Jn 17:9,20

9 I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also who shall believe in Me through their word,

Christ refused to pray for the world in general, but for those only who belonged to Him, Believers in Him and those who shall Believe in the Future. Those Christ refused to pray for are those of the reprobate world, those whom God Created as vessels of wrath, and children of hell ! Rom 9:22

22What if God, choosing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction;


Matt 23:15,33

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers! How can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Now it is insanity to suppose that Christ Loved these people and that He gave Himself for them as He Loved and gave Himself for the Church Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,

No real Christian should pray for none but those God has given to Christ, those who shall believe in Him, that is being Christ like.

It is blasphemy to even suggest that Christ came to redeem the children of the devil, whom shall perish in their sins, in God's Justice and Vengeance 2 Thess 1:8

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If Christ death was for these, if God Loved them Jn 3:16, then it was in vain ! 6

Was Nicodemus, a man of the Pharisees redeemed or not? He certainly went to visit Jesus Christ, and the Lord gave him an audience for a while. Why did Christ entertain Nicodemus, if he was as you say pre-destined to be a child of the devil?

What is hell in your understanding anyway? Please do not provide some doctrinal pre-packaged answer but your own work through your own perusing of the bible.

Also, please refrain from using terms like insanity for others who disagree with you. From Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged."

By the way, in essence you are confusing God's correction of men living in the flesh (children of the devil) to his blessing by grace (children of God) once redeemed from the world. They are separate things, and the latter happens after the former for all of us. From Proverbs 3:11-12 "My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline or be weary of his reproof; for the Lord reproves him whom he loves, as a father the son in whom he delights.

And what do you make of this line? From Matthew 5:20 "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Blessings!

 

[brightfame52]

Follower Of Christ

Was Nicodemus, a man of the Pharisees redeemed or not?

What in the world does that have to do with this thread ?

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Follower Of Christ



What in the world does that have to do with this thread ?

Well you quoted from Matthew 23, where Christ refers to Pharisees as children of hell. Nicodemus was a Pharisee, so why would Christ in John 3 entertain Nicodemus and explain to him what it means to be born again if Nicodemus is destined to be a child of hell. Christ must have had his reasons for doing what he did.

I suggest you reread my post carefully. You made some bold claims about blasphemy etc so I asked some questions. It's on you to answer with reasoned arguments and not reply with another question.

 

[Whatever]

Well you quoted from Matthew 23, where Christ refers to Pharisees as children of hell. Nicodemus was a Pharisee, so why would Christ in John 3 entertain Nicodemus

When Jesus told some Pharisees they were children of hell, that doesn't mean every Pharisee was a child of hell.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

When Jesus told some Pharisees they were children of hell, that doesn't mean every Pharisee was a child of hell.

Ok then why Matthew 5:20 after all?

 

[Whatever]

Ok then why Matthew 5:20 after all?

Mat 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Everybody looked up to the scribes and Pharisees as examples of what they should be like. Jesus was simply telling them that they had to have a righteousness better than that. The righteousness only God can give you, the righteousness of Christ.

Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith

The scribes and Pharisee's thought they were righteous because they followed the law. Even if one of them had really followed the law as best they could, it wasn't enough.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Mat 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Everybody looked up to the scribes and Pharisees as examples of what they should be like. Jesus was simply telling them that they had to have a righteousness better than that. The righteousness only God can give you, the righteousness of Christ.

Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith

The scribes and Pharisee's thought they were righteous because they followed the law. Even if one of them had really followed the law as best they could, it wasn't enough.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight

I fully agree with that! The reason why I asked the question was that in essence prior to regeneration we are all walking in the flesh or children of the devil. From Ephesians 2:2 "in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—". By admonishing the Pharisees The Lord was admonishing everyone for truly unless one has the righteousness of Christ one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. And God who loves us all corrects us and shows our previous path was wrong and in sin. It's up to the individual to accept that correction and convert. So, yes God loves everyone. It's Satan that hinders.

 

[brightfame52]

Follower Of Christ

Well you quoted from Matthew 23, where Christ refers to Pharisees as children of hell.

What they have to do with Nicodemus ? Jesus dealt with him differently

Nicodemus was a Pharisee

Thats okay, so was the Apostle Paul at one time Phil 3 4-5

4 ;Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5;Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law a Pharisee;

God loved some pharisees and saved them,

But evidently the ones He spoke to in Matt 23 weren't of the ones He loved, He assured they were going to hell, not escape

You ever heard of the election of Grace ?

 

[Follower Of Christ]

You ever heard of the election of Grace ?

I know "election of Grace" is a doctrinal position but it's nowhere mentioned in the bible per se.

From Ephesians 2:4-5 "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us; even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—"

I interpret the bible on my own though. And I know that prior to conversion and regeneration all are under the dominion of Satan, that is children of the devil from Ephesians 2. God calls and Satan tries to hinder the path to become children of God which is the parable of the sower. Many are called few chosen.

Where I think we differ is that you believe only few are predestined to receive the Grace of God anyway and it's true Grace is a gift and on our own we are undeserving of it regardless of what we do. Yet repentance of one sins and faith in the gospel of Christ are prerequisites to receive Grace. What I interpret here then is that ex-ante even though we are children of the devil, God in his love calls us. We then choose to repent and have faith in the gospel of Christ OUT OF OUR OWN free will NOT due to PREDESTINATION. Then all we have to do is wait for deliverance from God and trust in His mercy.

I hope this helps. Thank you for your reply.

 

[brightfame52]

Follower Of Christ

I know "election of Grace" is a doctrinal position but it's nowhere mentioned in the bible per se.

Rom 11:5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.