Does God LOVE everybody

[hawkman]

hawkman what prophet is this passage referring to, and what is the reference? Thanks.

Here you go .

Jeremiah 1:4 Context​

1The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin: 2To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. 3It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month. 4Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. 6Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. 7But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.

 

[brightfame52]

Most religious People think that God's Love is a mere emotion, however that cannot be further from the Truth. The Bible Teaches that God's Love and the Love of Jesus Christ produces effects, results. For God so loved the World that He Gave His only begotten Son. Yes Christ coming into the World to save His Own was an effect of God's Love !

Jn 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And Christ's giving of Himself, produces Results for them as Well. And it is by theses results that God's Love produces, it is impossible to conclude that God's Love and that of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is unto all mankind without exception !

Here is one of many effects of God's Love to those He loves 2 Thess 2:16-17

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Those God Loved, along with that Love He gives [ to the Loved ones] everlasting consolation and good hope through Grace. If we do not have these things abiding within, chances are, God does not Love us, because that is one of the evidences He gives those He Loves.

This hope comes as a result of the New Birth 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So it is appropriate to say that God Loves no man that does not receive a New Birth by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead !

This means, if Christ had not been raised from the dead, then none of those He died for would be born again, our New Birth is in virtue of His Resurrection !

 

[JLB]

Most religious People think that God's Love is a mere emotion, however that cannot be further from the Truth. The Bible Teaches that God's Love and the Love of Jesus Christ produces effects, results. For God so loved the World that He Gave His only begotten Son. Yes Christ coming into the World to save His Own was an effect of God's Love !

Jn 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And Christ's giving of Himself, produces Results for them as Well. And it is by theses results that God's Love produces, it is impossible to conclude that God's Love and that of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is unto all mankind without exception !

Here is one of many effects of God's Love to those He loves 2 Thess 2:16-17

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Those God Loved, along with that Love He gives [ to the Loved ones] everlasting consolation and good hope through Grace. If we do not have these things abiding within, chances are, God does not Love us, because that is one of the evidences He gives those He Loves.

This hope comes as a result of the New Birth 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So it is appropriate to say that God Loves no man that does not receive a New Birth by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead !

This means, if Christ had not been raised from the dead, then none of those He died for would be born again, our New Birth is in virtue of His Resurrection !

Amen. God so loved the world He gave His best; His precious Son.

 

[brightfame52]

Amen. God so loved the world He gave His best; His precious Son.

And Christ's giving of Himself, produces Results for them as Well. And it is by theses results that God's Love produces, it is impossible to conclude that God's Love and that of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is unto all mankind without exception !

 

[brightfame52]

Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth !

Heb 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If God Loved all mankind without exception, then would He not chasten every man in the world without exception ? Since scripture states whom the Lord Loveth, he chaseneth !

This word chasteneth is the greek word paideuō and means:


to train children

a) to be instructed or taught or learn

b) to cause one to learn

Now scripture also says this regarding all the Father teaches and cause them to learn Jn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

This promise is concerning all those whom God Loveth, they will become believers in Christ, for He chastens them all !

These are also the Covenant Seed, those David wrote of here Ps 89:27-33

27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; Which all the elect do by nature !

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. This is Divine chastening !

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

And chastening is always with profit in Holiness Heb 12:10-14

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Now it stands to reason, if God Loved all mankind without exception, all men without exception should partake of His Holiness vs 10 and afterward yield the peaceable fruit of Righteousness.

Now if this does not happen for every single person in the world without exception the word of God is a cheat ,a Lie ! Someone is lying, either the writers of scripture or those who teach that God loves everyone in the world without exception ! 8

 

[JLB]

it is impossible to conclude that God's Love and that of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is unto all mankind without exception !

It may be impossible for you to believe.

But for those who know Him, and believe His word it’s simple.

Just read and believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
1 Timothy 2:3-6


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


God loves the unsaved people of the world and wants them to be saved.

 

[JLB]

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If God Loved all mankind without exception, then would He not chasten every man in the world without exception ? Since scripture states whom the Lord Loveth, he chaseneth !

Yes the Lord chasten’s His children.

He also loves us before we become His children.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Jesus Christ died on the cross to save sinners, not people who are already saved.

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

It may be impossible for you to believe.

And it should be, I gave the reason, did you understand it ? Go over it with me

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

Yes the Lord chasten’s His children.

He also loves us before we become His children.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Rom 5:8 is talking about His Children ! Gods children have always been His children even when unbelievers.

 

[JLB]

JLB



Rom 5:8 is talking about His Children ! Gods children have always been His children even when unbelievers.

Unbelievers are God’s children.

When were they saved?

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
John 3:3

 

[Whatever]

Unbelievers are God’s children.

When were they saved?

The elect who were given to Jesus are His children before they are born. They are saved in time when the Holy Spirit regenerates them.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, . . .
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, . . .
John 17:2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.

Notice in the last verse above. They are given to Jesus and then He gives them eternal life (saves them.)

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed

These Gentiles were given to Jesus and appointed to eternal life, but they didn't get that eternal life till they heard the gospel and believed.

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Before time began and when nobody had even existed yet, God elected certain people to eternal life, gives them to the Son, and the Son comes and lays down His life for His sheep, then at the time appointed by God, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Whatever]

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved

You keep repeating this but refuse to understand that God has told us long ago about His desire, will or purpose.

New King James
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

English Standard Version
Isaiah 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

Christian Standard Bible
I declare the end from the beginning,
and from long ago what is not yet done,
saying: my plan will take place,
and I will do all my will.

New American Bible
At the beginning I declare the outcome;
from of old, things not yet done.
I say that my plan shall stand,
I accomplish my every desire.

How about saying it a different way:
Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

But you keep saying that God desires something that we all know is not going to happen. Maybe your understanding of your verses is incorrect.

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

Unbelievers are God’s children.

Yes if they elect

 

[brightfame52]

For God so Loved the World !

Jn 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Many of the followers of "the teachings of men" have twisted this scripture to their own destruction and force it to mean something to them that it does not mean at all, and that is that it says here that God Loved every human being of mankind without exception, which is so absurd. One scripture in the bible totally proves that interpretation false, for we must always understand scripture in light of scripture, and that is this scripture here Rom 9::10-13

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

This scripture reminds us that God views Two manner of people in this world, based upon His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus. This was revealed to Rebecca early on in the her history and as it pertained to her Two Sons Gen 25:22-23

22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the Lord.

23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

This actually happened to Eve, though not recorded as Twins, Two manner of People were separated from her bowels in cain and Abel, and similar to, one son was Loved and accepted of God, and one hated and rejected, and so it is in this world up to even now, some according to God's Purpose of Election are either of that manner of People that are Loved, like the Jacobs and Abel's, or they are of the manner that are hated as the cains and the esau's. God in the recordings here of the history of Rachel and her children is showing and typifying the Election of God as a separated People from the reprobates, the seed of the serpent or the children of perdition. Folks Jacob was Loved of God, but his brother was hated of God. God reminds later also of this separation amongst the manner of peoples in the world here Mal 1:2

I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

A clear discriminating difference made by God again ! God said Yet I Loved only [implied] Jacob !

And folks that is how it is in John 3:16, its only the Jacobs of the World that are Loved by God, those Loved in His Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In the original it is:

apo thv agaphv tou qeou thv en Xristw Ihsou tw kuriw hmwn.

The definite article the Love of the God, meaning that this is God's exclusive Love and it is exclusively in Christ Jesus, folks, God knows no other or has any other type Love save that which is grounded in His Election of some in Christ Jesus before the World began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

That Purpose of His is mentioned again in Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Yes, thats Right, God's own Purpose of Election in Christ Jesus before the World began !

And Jacob was Loved according to that Purpose of Election, for you cannot separate God's Love from His Discriminate Choice, also seen in the Early Typical Dealings with Israel, and it reads Deut 7:6-7

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

The Loved of God are The Chosen of God, a Special People unto Himself !

Sorry folks, but that is a discriminate Love God reveals here, not shared with other people of the World !

So, premised upon scriptural evidence, the World Loved in Jn 3:16, is His Chosen World in Christ Jesus Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And that is the Love of God in Christ Jesus, the One they are Chosen in ! Rom 8:39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you do not believe in the Discriminate Elective Love of God in Christ Jesus, based upon His own Purpose of Election, we do not believe in the God of which it is written God is Love ! And the World that He so Loved is His Own Chosen People, a Special People above all others.

One Last thing, the very word for world has many different meanings, one of which is this, its the word kosmos:

1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3

3) the world, the universe

4) the circle of the earth, the earth

5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family

6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ

7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly

a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ

8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)

Any aggregate collection of particulars !

What does aggregate mean ? Its a collection of particulars ! what does particular mean ?

of or pertaining to a single or specific person, thing, group, class, occasion, etc., rather than to others or all; special rather than general:

So All those collected together of God's Particular Election in Christ Jesus before the world began, is a World, this cannot be disputed, and that is the World God so Loved in Jn 3:16, the Elect of God ! 8

 

[brightfame52]

That Love of God which it is said, For God so loved the World Jn 3:16 is that same Love that the Father had to His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the World that He Loved, He did so as He Loved Him Jn 17:23-24

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

It is therefore, all for whom God Loved, Jn 3:16 was a World in Union with Christ Jesus before the world began, and so He Loved it with a Love only found in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

None can be seperated from this Love, and since scripture is clear that many shall be seperated from God's Love into Everlasting Fire, then such ones could not have been any of those God so Loved in Jn 3:16 ! The Fact is, if one was not Loved while in Union as One with Christ before the foundation of the World, then that one was never Loved by God, and that is a Election Union. What did God say to the Chosen Jews , which was but a very small remnant ? Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

God was speaking only to Chosen Jews in Christ, before Him in Love and Holiness as here Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Follower Of Christ]

The interesting thing about religious doctrines of salvation or religious doctrines for that matter propagated by men is that they are based on a series of pillars and if one pillar is refuted the whole doctrine crumbles like a pack of cards.

Regarding Calvinism, its supporters focus or tunnel vision on the point of unconditional election. Well suppose unconditional election is true. That means that for some saved person Z in Botswana say he or she belongs to a family tree many of whom above are unsaved. That is God in saving Z had to set in motion a whole series of interactions leading to the family tree finally producing Z ever since Christ stated in Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Do you see where I am going? In talking about Z only being saved one must also acknowledge the whole interconnected set of interactions that led to Z being born along the family tree. Now my question is does God love this family tree - that is HIS whole set of plans leading to the family tree whose Z is a member? If HE does not HE does not love Z either. If HE does then all of them are loved saved and unsaved.

Can any of you Calvinists in this forum answer my question?

 

[electedbyHim]

The interesting thing about religious doctrines of salvation or religious doctrines for that matter propagated by men is that they are based on a series of pillars and if one pillar is refuted the whole doctrine crumbles like a pack of cards.

Regarding Calvinism, its supporters focus or tunnel vision on the point of unconditional election. Well suppose unconditional election is true. That means that for some saved person Z in Botswana say he or she belongs to a family tree many of whom above are unsaved. That is God in saving Z had to set in motion a whole series of interactions leading to the family tree finally producing Z ever since Christ stated in Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Do you see where I am going? In talking about Z only being saved one must also acknowledge the whole interconnected set of interactions that led to Z being born along the family tree. Now my question is does God love this family tree - that is HIS whole set of plans leading to the family tree whose Z is a member? If HE does not HE does not love Z either. If HE does then all of them are loved saved and unsaved.

Can any of you Calvinists in this forum answer my question?

Define unconditional election.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Define unconditional election.

First, I thank you for your reply.

Second, you haven't answered my question. If one answers no, God does not love the family tree, then God does not love Z either even though Z is saved. This is a paradox. If one answers yes, then God loves all and that means according to Calvinists God loves also the unsaved. Can Calvinists change their mind and believe God also loves the unsaved? I leave it up to them.

You are deviating from my point by disputing my understanding of A via asking me to clarify the definition. I am not falling for that and as a consequence having the debate spiral out of control.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 "I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions;and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."

 

[electedbyHim]

First, I thank you for your reply.

Second, you haven't answered my question for no matter how you answer you reach a paradox.

That is, Calvinists claim (a matter of personal opinion) that A is true where A is unconditional election.

I just showed (using logic) that assuming A is true where A is unconditional election you reach a paradox that is one is unable to ascertain the truth of the matter.

You are deviating from my point by disputing my understanding of A via asking me to clarify the definition. I am not falling for that and as a consequence having the debate spiral out of control.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 "I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions;and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Dear fellow member of this forum, I just showed you that one is unable to prove the truth of A that is unconditional election. Hence, embracing a doctrine when one is not able to prove the truth of one of its main pillars is tantamount to speculation.

The only reason I asked you the definition is because those who claim to know it are really cluesless of what it teaches.

I would like to add that I am not understanding your argument about A and Z.

In my mind I was not deflectinng as you suggest.

Dear fellow member of this forum, I just showed you that one is unable to prove the truth of A that is unconditional election. Hence, embracing a doctrine when one is not able to prove the truth of one of its main pillars is tantamount to speculation.

In alll honesty you have not shown anything.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Arial]

Regarding Calvinism, its supporters focus or tunnel vision on the point of unconditional election.

That would presuppose that you know the thoughts of all, without exception, Calvinists. And that we are all exactly alike. Which is a preposterous appeal to the authority of the poster's words. Even haphazard critical thinking recognizes an agenda that most likely will not be supportable by actual facts.

In addition, the doctrines (and there are many, some of which you probably agree with)in Calvinism are derived from the very opposite of tunnel vision, and the singular focus if one wants to call it that, is God himself equally and equal to Jesus. Even the Structure of TULIP illustrates this doctrinally. One thing leads to the next to the next to the next, producing automatic and necessary conclusions. It is systematically derived and careful not to arrive at any doctrine that will contradict any carefully exegeted scripture. It lets scripture do the interpreting of scripture, iow, what is clear shedding light on what is not clear. And always making sure nothing ever takes away from or adds to what God reveals of himself. Anyone of course has the right to disagree with what Calvinism teaches, but if it is done publicly as on a forum, the opposing views should be thoroughly supported with something besides isolating certain scriptures from not only their immediate context but from the full counsel of God.

Iow, don't produce contradictions within the scriptures. A Calvinist is most likely going to do this with whatever you present, so be prepared to debate accordingly. I have only read a few of the posts in this thread, but what I have seen so far from those of C/R or leaning that way, is a great example of how they support and defend their position.

Can any of you Calvinists in this forum answer my question?

I doubt it as it looks like nonsense completely unrelated to the doctrine of unconditional election to me.