Does God LOVE everybody

[electedbyHim]

So the elect were never unsaved; unregenerate?

Of course, just like any other Christian.

However, God did choose us before the foundations of the earth to be His people, His elect.

Not by anything we ever did.

 

[JLB]

Of course, just like any other Christian.

However, God did choose us before the foundations of the earth to be His people, His elect.

Not by anything we ever did.

So we don’t have to hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved?

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

 

[JLB]

Of course, just like any other

Before a person becomes a Christian, they were unsaved;


So back to my question -

How do you know there are no elect among the tares?

 

[electedbyHim]

So we don’t have to hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved?

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

Nobody said that.

Why do you think that way?

 

[electedbyHim]

Before a person becomes a Christian, they were unsaved;


So back to my question -

How do you know there are no elect among the tares?

Because in context, Matthew 13 never implies that in the parable.

 

[JLB]

Nobody said that.

Why do you think that way?

Because I was responding to this statement of yours…

Not by anything we ever did.

Hear and Believe is what we do to be saved.


Brightfame plainly says believing is a works gospel.

He claims he was saved before he ever heard and believed the Gospel.


So I guess you guys have your own variations of Calvinism.

 

[JLB]

Of course, just like any other Christian.

However, God did choose us before the foundations of the earth to be His people, His elect.

Not by anything we ever did.

Before a person becomes a Christian, they were unsaved;


So back to my question -

How do you know there are no elect among the tares?

 

[electedbyHim]

Before a person becomes a Christian, they were unsaved;


So back to my question -

How do you know there are no elect among the tares?

I answered post #725

 

[JLB]

Because in context, Matthew 13 never implies that in the parable.

Then if the elect are not mentioned in Matthew 13 then why are Calvinist’s trying to use it as a proof text for election?

 

[JLB]

Because in context, Matthew 13 never implies that in the parable.

Here’s what we know for sure about the elect -

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10

• I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation

Paul said he endured all things, all kinds of suffering for the sake of the elect, that THEY ALSO may obtain salvation.


It’s seems the writer of most of the New Testament was passionate in his desire to see the elect also obtain salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

For His Great love wherewith He loved us ?

Eph 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

If God so Loved all men without exception as it is falsely believed today, that Great Love that it is, That word Great denotes: Strong , Intense ,Large Love, then why did He not because of it by, Quicken them all without exception while they were dead in trespasses and sins, as stated here that He did or those He Loved Eph 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Notice that this quickening occurs, even when or while we ourselves are being dead in sin.

Now this is key, because this quickening takes place even while we are in a present state of rebellion and unbelief,its while being [present tense] dead in sin. Its similar to when or while we were being enemies, we were reconciled to God.

Quickening does not come as a result of ones faith, repentance, and contrition over sin, but it comes while we are in the grasp of spiritual death and "we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;"

Similar to the Apostle Paul at the time his quickening took place, it was while he was in a hateful rage against Christ and his followers See Acts 9:1ff

The only condition for this quickening on the sinners part is to be dead in sin, and on God's part, that He Loved them with a Great Love while they were dead in sin and rebellion !

So why aren't all men without exception quickened ? That word quicken literally means [I make alive together with.]

The reason why God did not do that to all mankind without exception is because He does not Love all mankind without exception ! 9

 

[electedbyHim]

Then if the elect are not mentioned in Matthew 13 then why are Calvinist’s trying to use it as a proof text for election?

This not was said or stated by me and is misleading to those who are reading.

You are twisting what I said and is not Christlike.

Let me post what you said in post #723 and I answered in post #725 below.

Before a person becomes a Christian, they were unsaved;


So back to my question -

How do you know there are no elect among the tares?

electedbyHim said..... Because in context, Matthew 13 never implies that in the parable.​

The wheat are genuine Christian (the elect).

There are no Christian tares, these are imposters.

The tares (weeds) are from satan vs.25
The tares will be burned up vs. 30

The Parable of the Weeds
Mat 13:24 He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Mat 13:25 “But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
Mat 13:26 “But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
Mat 13:27 “The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’
Mat 13:28 “And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’
Mat 13:29 “But he *said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

tares. Probably darnel, a type of weed that can hardly be distinguished from wheat until the head matures. In an agricultural setting, sowing darnel in someone else's wheat field was a way for enemies to destroy someone's livelihood catastrophically. Here it pictures Satan's efforts to deceive the church by mingling his children with God's, in some cases making it impossible for believers to discern the true from the false. Jesus explains the parable in verses Mat_13:36-43.

 

[JLB]

electedbyHim said..... Because in context, Matthew 13 never implies that in the parable.​

The wheat are genuine Christian (the elect).

There are no Christian tares, these are imposters.

The tares (weeds) are from satan vs.25
The tares will be burned up vs. 30

The Parable of the Weeds
Mat 13:24 He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Mat 13:25 “But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
Mat 13:26 “But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
Mat 13:27 “The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’
Mat 13:28 “And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’
Mat 13:29 “But he *said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Where does Matthew 13 mention elect, imposters,… ?

These are all your made up words you apply to the text.

 

[JLB]

The tares (weeds) are from satan vs.25
The tares will be burned up vs. 30

Let’s focus on the actual words of the text, and not make up words that do not appear there.

Some who are called sons of the kingdom will also suffer the same fate. Jesus had just taught this in a previous chapter.

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:37-43


And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12


Only those who are found to be righteous will at the end of the age inherit the kingdom of God.

This is a consistent theme throughout the New Testament.


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46

• And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10



JLB

 

[electedbyHim]

Where does Matthew 13 mention elect, imposters,… ?

These are all your made up words you apply to the text.

Nevermind.

 

[electedbyHim]

Let’s focus on the actual words of the text, and not make up words that do not appear there.

Some who are called sons of the kingdom will also suffer the same fate. Jesus had just taught this in a previous chapter.

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:37-43


And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12


Only those who are found to be righteous will at the end of the age inherit the kingdom of God.

This is a consistent theme throughout the New Testament.


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46

• And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10



JLB

Your interpretation of Scriptures is known as eisegesis.

Please look it up.

The word is not in the Bible so you probably will not believe that either.

 

[brightfame52]

Where does Matthew 13 mention elect, imposters,… ?

These are all your made up words you apply to the text.

It doesnt have to say the exact words, the point is, the tares are false believers, and tares so closely resemble wheat, its difficult to tell the difference at times.

Its sorta like when Jesus said that false gospels will be so very close to sounding like the True Gospel, if it were possible they would deceive the very elect Matt 24 24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[JLB]

Your interpretation of Scriptures is known as eisegesis.

Please look it up.

The word is not in the Bible so you probably will not believe that either.

Please show me something specific you disagree with in this post?



Let’s focus on the actual words of the text, and not make up words that do not appear there.

Some who are called sons of the kingdom will also suffer the same fate. Jesus had just taught this in a previous chapter.

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:37-43


And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12


Only those who are found to be righteous will at the end of the age inherit the kingdom of God.

This is a consistent theme throughout the New Testament.


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46

• And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing goodseek for glory, honor, and immortality;

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

 

[JLB]

It doesnt have to say the exact words, the point is, the tares are false believers, and tares so closely resemble wheat, its difficult to tell the difference at times.

Its sorta like when Jesus said that false gospels will be so very close to sounding like the True Gospel, if it were possible they would deceive the very elect Matt 24 24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

If you are able to just make up words of your own and apply them to scripture, then obviously you can come up with your own personal interpretation.

Elect refers to Jews in Matthew 24 as well as other places, like
2 Timothy 2:10

 

[electedbyHim]

Please show me something specific you disagree with in this post?



Let’s focus on the actual words of the text, and not make up words that do not appear there.

Some who are called sons of the kingdom will also suffer the same fate. Jesus had just taught this in a previous chapter.

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:37-43


And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12


Only those who are found to be righteous will at the end of the age inherit the kingdom of God.

This is a consistent theme throughout the New Testament.


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46

• And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing goodseek for glory, honor, and immortality;

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12

Who do you think the sons of the kingdom are in that verse?