Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

Those verses do not say Paul was perfect in obedience.

They also don't say he wasn't.
That which he had yet to attain was the resurrection of the dead. (Phil 3:11)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They also don't say he wasn't.
That which he had yet to attain was the resurrection of the dead. (Phil 3:11)

Do you really think if that's what he meant that he would have to point out to the Philippians that he had not been resurrected yet, lol?

12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect
Philippians 3:12

As we can see, it's obvious he's not talking about having died and being resurrected, lol:

13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it.

Thanks, Paul, for letting us know that you don't consider yourself to have died and been resurrected, yet! Obviously, he was talking about not having taken hold of the resurrection life—moral perfection, not the resurrection! There would be no need for him to give us his opinion about him being resurrected, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I hope some were.

They received the Spirit. So they were sanctified, consecrated and washed by the Spirit.
He's talking to saved people. Saved people are sanctified people, cleansed and set apart for a holy purpose. These saved people are sinning. Paul is setting them straight.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is it a sin to get circumcised?

They wanted to do it for the purpose of justification. They had already started keeping the Mosaic cycle of Festivals for the purpose of justification. Yes, that is a sin, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Though in error to believe the Law could provide justification, much less salvation, adhering to the Law couldn't hurt anyone.

Yes it does hurt to do that. When you're doing it in order to be justified, as they were, that is to reject Christ and fall from grace:

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Galatians 5:4 BSB

If that's not a sin, then nothing is.

These believers who received the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:2-3) are sinning. Paul is setting them straight.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is just that it isn't enough to justify or save anyone.
It would be like getting a PHD in chemistry and then going back to get a BS in chemistry.
Sin?
No.
Unwise?
Yes.

Paul has a different opinion about that than you. He says they are cut off from Christ and fallen from grace. They stopped believing in the gospel that Paul preached to them and were believing another gospel (Galatians 1:6). That's much, much more than just being unwise. That's a sin. That's making Christ of no value to you (Galatians 5:2,4).

 

[Hopeful]

Do you really think if that's what he meant that he would have to point out to the Philippians that he had not been resurrected yet, lol?

He did point it out, in the previous verse..."If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Phil 3:11)

12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect
Philippians 3:12
As we can see, it's obvious he's not talking about having died and being resurrected, lol:
13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it.

Thanks, Paul, for letting us know that you don't consider yourself to have died and been resurrected, yet!

Amen, and thanks Paul, for settling any question regarding what you had not yet "attained".
He elaborates on it in Phil 3:21..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

Obviously, he was talking about not having taken hold of the resurrection life—moral perfection, not the resurrection! There would be no need for him to give us his opinion about him being resurrected, lol.

You don't think we can live a moral life without having been resurrected from the dead?
Jesus did, and so do I.
In fact, so did Paul, as he did write 1 Cor 15:34..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."

 

[Hopeful]

They received the Spirit. So they were sanctified, consecrated and washed by the Spirit.

As Paul was addressing all the folks in the church, not to mention us many years later, it is impossible to determine what percentage were indeed sanctified.

He's talking to saved people. Saved people are sanctified people, cleansed and set apart for a holy purpose. These saved people are sinning. Paul is setting them straight.

Is it a sin to get circumcised?
I don't think so, but it was unnecessary as they had been shown that it is by faith that we will be saved, and not by the traditions of men. (Col 2:8,14,16,20-23)

 

[Hopeful]

They wanted to do it for the purpose of justification.

Erroneous for sure, but why is it a sin to obey God?
The continued teaching of circumcision, or any of the extra's of the Mosaic Law for justification, shows a lack of knowledge that a new covenant has been initialized.

They had already started keeping the Mosaic cycle of Festivals for the purpose of justification. Yes, that is a sin, lol.

Why?
What commandment were they breaking?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes it does hurt to do that. When you're doing it in order to be justified, as they were, that is to reject Christ and fall from grace:

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Galatians 5:4 BSB

If that's not a sin, then nothing is.

These believers who received the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:2-3) are sinning. Paul is setting them straight.

I see now that the intention of your posts has been to prove that men in Christ still commit sin.
If those folks who did, or wanted to, readopt circumcision for justification really had the gift of the Holy Ghost, they never would have put back on the flesh.
Only sinners commit sin, so if the sinners, (your label), committed a sin in getting circumcised, it would just be the natural progression of non-repentance from sin.
They were not sanctified.

 

[Hopeful]

Paul has a different opinion about that than you. He says they are cut off from Christ and fallen from grace. They stopped believing in the gospel that Paul preached to them and were believing another gospel (Galatians 1:6). That's much, much more than just being unwise. That's a sin. That's making Christ of no value to you (Galatians 5:2,4).

That would make it the unbelievers who returned to circumcision.
I agree.
Are unbelievers sanctified?
No.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As Paul was addressing all the folks in the church, not to mention us many years later, it is impossible to determine what percentage were indeed sanctified.

Is it a sin to get circumcised?
I don't think so, but it was unnecessary as they had been shown that it is by faith that we will be saved, and not by the traditions of men. (Col 2:8,14,16,20-23)

They were in fact trying to be justified by keeping the law. That's a sin. These Spirit filled believers were sinning.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Erroneous for sure, but why is it a sin to obey God?
The continued teaching of circumcision, or any of the extra's of the Mosaic Law for justification, shows a lack of knowledge that a new covenant has been initialized.

Why?
What commandment were they breaking?

Obeying another gospel. The same thing the Corinthians started doing. That's a sin. Paul said so. Believers sin when they depart from the one who called them by the true gospel and embrace another gospel. It's called unbelief. That's a sin. In fact, it's the ultimate sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That would make it the unbelievers who returned to circumcision.
I agree.
Are unbelievers sanctified?
No.

No, Paul is addressing saved people. He said so in no uncertain terms. These saved people are sinning by believing another gospel. Just as the Corinthians were sinning when they believed another gospel. Paul said so.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I see now that the intention of your posts has been to prove that men in Christ still commit sin.
If those folks who did, or wanted to, readopt circumcision for justification really had the gift of the Holy Ghost, they never would have put back on the flesh.
Only sinners commit sin, so if the sinners, (your label), committed a sin in getting circumcised, it would just be the natural progression of non-repentance from sin.
They were not sanctified.

You're saying we know that saved people aren't the ones sinning because saved people don't sin. That's called circular reasoning.

 

[Hopeful]

They were in fact trying to be justified by keeping the law. That's a sin. These Spirit filled believers were sinning.

If they were sinning, serving sin, they were neither believers nor had the characteristics of Spirit filled folks.
If, however, they were considering the Judaizer's heresy as truth, it would just be a sign of ignorance.
Paul wrote to make sure they had the truth of the matter before it was too late.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

Obeying another gospel. The same thing the Corinthians started doing. That's a sin. Paul said so. Believers sin when they depart from the one who called them by the true gospel and embrace another gospel. It's called unbelief. That's a sin. In fact, it's the ultimate sin.

Where does Paul say that?
If it is unbelief, it shows they were never cleansed from any prior sin anyway.
Why would one more sin matter to an unbeliever?

 

[Hopeful]

No, Paul is addressing saved people. He said so in no uncertain terms. These saved people are sinning by believing another gospel. Just as the Corinthians were sinning when they believed another gospel. Paul said so.

Paul was addressing a whole church, of which some seemed to be believing the Judaizers.
Where did Paul say it was sin?

 

[Hopeful]

You're saying we know that saved people aren't the ones sinning because saved people don't sin. That's called circular reasoning.

Makes sense to me.
Is that a bad thing?
Is this circular reasoning too?...White people can't be Black because White people are White.
BTW, there will be no saved people until the final judgement.
It is those in Christ who will be saved, and as there is no sin in Christ, we know those in Christ can have no sin in them either.
Or are you opining that there IS sin in Christ?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If they were sinning, serving sin, they were neither believers nor had the characteristics of Spirit filled folks.

Don't you understand you're using circular reasoning to make your point?

You're saying we know the saved Galatians weren't sinning because saved people don't sin. That's called circular reasoning. You're using what you want to defend to prove what you want to defend.

We know it was the saved Galatians themselves that were keeping the Mosaic festival cycle for the purpose of justification, and thus, sinning, because it is the saved, Spirit filled Galatians whom Paul is addressing in the letter about this matter.