Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

Right, it won't happen to you if you walk after the Spirit. Because you can't serve the flesh and the Spirit at the same time (Galatians 5:17). They are diametrically opposed to each other. It will happen to you if you do not walk after the Spirit. Stay in the Spirit and you will not serve the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

Now your "cookin".

These truths do not mean you will never stray from the leading of the Spirit to serve the desires of the flesh. These truths are provided to us so we can have the faith and courage to choose to not serve the desires of the flesh. The voice of the flesh can be very deceiving and enticing even to the born again, Spirit filled child of God, but through a growing knowledge of the power we have through the Spirit and the end of the flesh's authority and power we can walk in faith knowing that we do not have to bend to the demands and enticements of the flesh. That 'husband' is dead, reckoned dead on the cross with Jesus, and so we are no longer bound by power of law to submit to it's desires. We're all growing up into this truth, more and more, maturing to the full measure and stature of Christ - Ephesians 4:13.

The "flesh" has been crucified.
It is dead.
It has no power.
It is used as an excuse for the lost.

 

[Hopeful]

Romans 7:14-25 is about the believer trying to serve God through law.

I don't agree.
It is about the OT life Paul once tried to adhere to when he was still walking after the flesh.

It's a futile and failed effort. No matter how much you desire to do that. The answer for that inevitable failure is to serve God through the Holy Spirit, explained by Paul in the next chapter, chapter 8.

Yes.

This truth is not only for the person who has yet to be born again and only has the 'water' part of the 'water and Spirit' birth in John 3:5.

Right, birth from mom.

This truth is for every sincere, but misguided and unknowledgeable Spirit filled person who has yet to learn about and walk in the new way of serving God by the Holy Spirit. I suspect many, many well meaning, but misguided, genuinely born again people in the church have yet to learn the fullness of that truth. That's just all a part of growing up into the knowledge of what God has done for us through the cross, but which we have yet to learn about. We're babies, sons of God, growing up into the image and stature of our Father, learning about the inheritance that is ours in Him. God is bringing us to maturity. We don't start out that way. No baby does.

Is John Doe's six year old son less of a "Doe" because he can't drive a car"?
Neither are we less of a child of God when we still can't interpret 1 John 1:8 to the unbelievers.
God has provided pastors, teachers, prophets, etc., for His body.
Those born of God' seed adhere to the teachings.
If John Doe's son fails a DNA test he is no longer a "Doe".
Our "testing" goes on all our lives.
Those who fail are revealed as interlopers and invaders.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, clean as a newborn baby (a non-Calvinist new born baby, lol.)
Made clean by a bath that I never need take again. Needing only to wash my feet, for surely they will be dirtied in my journey to the kingdom of God. But which will always be washed clean again by my Servant-King/Priest Jesus and his continuing intercession for me in heaven.

How many times does He need to be crucified for you?
It is written..."For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6)
Do you know why "renewal" is impossible?
Because renewal never happened in the first place.

 

[Hopeful]

Whose fightin' it?
I'm grow'd up now. I want steak! That was God's intent.
But like I say, the occasional milk shake is wonderful.
It's good to be reminded of the milk knowledge of the gospel now and again.
And it's good to feed new babies with it.
But you can't live on just that forever! That's not God's plan.
He has every intention of bringing us to maturity and living on the meat knowledge of the word - the word of righteous living.

Righteous living, not the back and forth living of the posers.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It happens to those without God's Spirit.

But Galatians 5:17 says these people have the Spirit.
It's describing the conflict between the flesh and the Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes it does, as 1 Joh 3:9-10 clearly states.

Then like I said, NOBODY is born again.

When you consider the WHOLE context of the Bible John is talking about living in sin in an unrepentant lifestyle, not committing a single sin. Unchanged people are not born again. Changed/ changing people are. I showed you this progression in 2 Peter 1:8-9. It's undeniable.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not in every facet, as I await a better vessel in the future.

Then you are sinning now if you're still waiting to fulfill a facet of obedience.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do God's children lie, kill, and steal?
No.

Well, actually they do, lol.
But not as a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.
That is the difference between the natural person and the born again person growing up into the image and stature of Christ.
Paul explains it's because of the flesh that born again people who have the Spirit don't do what they want to do - Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17. It's undeniable. You insist that it's impossible for sin and the Spirit to be in the same body. Scripture shows us you're wrong.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God's seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the evil.
Th devil's children commit the sins.

That is correct. Sin does not come from God's seed, His word.
It comes from the flesh.
Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17

 

[Hopeful]

But Galatians 5:17 says these people have the Spirit.
It's describing the conflict between the flesh and the Spirit.

Let's look at it with verse 16...
16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Gal 5:16-17)

Inversely, it reads..."Walk in the flesh and you won't do the desires of the Spirit."
One walk constitutes the inability to walk the other "walk".
And one of my favorite verses in the whole bible..." And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
If one has no "fleshly" orientation, they won't lust to satisfy them.

 

[Hopeful]

Then like I said, NOBODY is born again.

When you consider the WHOLE context of the Bible John is talking about living in sin in an unrepentant lifestyle, not committing a single sin. Unchanged people are not born again. Changed/ changing people are. I showed you this progression in 2 Peter 1:8-9. It's undeniable.

One sin shows a lack of repentance.
Unrepentant people have indeed, not been born again.

 

[Hopeful]

Then you are sinning now if you're still waiting to fulfill a facet of obedience.

Is wearing glasses a sin?
What am I disobeying if I wear glasses?
Is walking with a limp a sin?
Where is limping ever called disobedience?
Needing medical assistance isn't a sin.

 

[Hopeful]

Well, actually they do, lol.

What happened to Adam and Eve for their sin?
What happened to the Jews in the desert for their sin?
The seed of God cannot bring forth liars and thieves.

But not as a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.

A sin a year is a lifestyle of habitual sin.
For it not to be, it would have to be a lifestyle without sin.

That is the difference between the natural person and the born again person growing up into the image and stature of Christ.
Paul explains it's because of the flesh that born again people who have the Spirit don't do what they want to do - Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17. It's undeniable. You insist that it's impossible for sin and the Spirit to be in the same body. Scripture shows us you're wrong.

You are empowering skin and bones, blood vessels and tendons.
They can do nothing without the minds initiation and conception.
Skin and bones are not the subject of most of Paul's references to "flesh".
It is he orientation of the mind that is killed and buried, that is crucified with Christ.
"Natural" people have not done that, but the born again have.

God will not dwell in a polluted temple.

 

[Hopeful]

That is correct. Sin does not come from God's seed, His word.
It comes from the flesh.
Galatians 5:17, Romans 7:16-17

Fleshly oriented minds that have been crucified, with the vile affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), have been destroyed. (Rom 6:6)
Thanks be to God.
Why do you insist on ignoring that?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One sin shows a lack of repentance.
Unrepentant people have indeed, not been born again.

Oh, my. What a horrible existence you live.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Fleshly oriented minds that have been crucified, with the vile affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), have been destroyed. (Rom 6:6)
Thanks be to God.
Why do you insist on ignoring that?

I'm not ignoring it. I'm doing what you refuse to do...understanding it in light of the whole counsel of scriptures.

Your interpretation of the 'perfection/completeness' passages negates the 'progressing in holiness' scriptures. But my interpretation of the 'progressing in holiness' scriptures do not negate the 'perfection/completeness' scriptures.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A sin a year is a lifestyle of habitual sin.
For it not to be, it would have to be a lifestyle without sin.

Wow, I can't believe somebody would think like this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What happened to Adam and Eve for their sin?

The same thing that happened to you and I when we sinned our first sin we were accountable for. We died (Romans 7:9). That's done and over now. As an unbeliever, you don't die that death over and over when you sin. And as a believer, the blood of Christ you believe and trust in intercedes on your behalf the instant you sin. Unless, that sin is the result of a conscious decision to not believe and trust in the blood of Christ for forgiveness anymore. Then you've started the downward slide to losing the salvation you had.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is wearing glasses a sin?
What am I disobeying if I wear glasses?
Is walking with a limp a sin?
Where is limping ever called disobedience?
Needing medical assistance isn't a sin.

Why did you even bring it up then if what you were talking about had nothing to do with moral perfection/completeness?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are empowering skin and bones, blood vessels and tendons.
They can do nothing without the minds initiation and conception.

Your conscious mind is part of the flesh.
Not to be confused with the inner man and it's mindset.