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Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

Hopeful said:
Skin and bones are not the subject of most of Paul's references to "flesh".
It is he orientation of the mind that is killed and buried, that is crucified with Christ.
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If that were the case then Paul would not tell believers to be renewed in our minds - Romans 12:2.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I'm not ignoring it. I'm doing what you refuse to do...understanding it in light of the whole counsel of scriptures.

Your interpretation of the 'perfection/completeness' passages negates the 'progressing in holiness' scriptures. But my interpretation of the 'progressing in holiness' scriptures do not negate the 'perfection/completeness' scriptures.
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I see no "progressing in holiness" scripture.
If one is holy, how can they get more holy?
If one is sanctified, how do they get more sanctified?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
The same thing that happened to you and I when we sinned our first sin we were accountable for. We died (Romans 7:9). That's done and over now. As an unbeliever, you don't die that death over and over when you sin.
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Agreed.
Jethro Bodine said:
And as a believer, the blood of Christ you believe and trust in intercedes on your behalf the instant you sin.
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If you trusted even that God was real, you would never commit another sin.
Jethro Bodine said:
Unless, that sin is the result of a conscious decision to not believe and trust in the blood of Christ for forgiveness anymore. Then you've started the downward slide to losing the salvation you had.
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A sin after a feigned repentance from sin is just another sign of the death you experienced at your first sin.
Those not dead to sin commit sin.
It is written..."Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Rom 6:16)

It is written..."So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Rom 8:8-10)
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Why did you even bring it up then if what you were talking about had nothing to do with moral perfection/completeness?
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It was in reply to you weird notion..."Then you are sinning now if you're still waiting to fulfill a facet of obedience." (post747)
That in response to my awaiting a better vessel at the resurrection. (post 740)
I can't "fulfill" something that God promises to the obedient.
God will fulfill it.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Your conscious mind is part of the flesh.
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It is part of the "skin and bones".
The vessel we amble about in.
But that vessel is the temple of the Holy Ghost, in the regenerated.
Jethro Bodine said:
Not to be confused with the inner man and it's mindset.
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So you admit to double mindedness?
Why not just kill the old man (Rom 6:6) and get reborn? (Rom 6:4)
Now you could have the mind of Christ instead of your fleshly oriented old mind. (1 Cor 2:16)
 
Hopeful said:
I am certain men from the very beginning have thought that obedience to God was a horrible existence.
If they only knew what a blessing it is to pray everyday and know God that hears them.
And that He answers them.
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No, no, obedience isn't the horrible existence.
Thinking you have to be 100% successful at being obedient to be saved is. You never know if you're really a child of God because if/when the day comes that even you can't deny that you sin you realize that what you had hoped was obedient salvation wasn't that at all. And then you'll try again not being able to know if you're truly saved in that attempt either. You never know if what you're experiencing is really salvation/God or not. That is a horrible life.
 
Hopeful said:
I see no "progressing in holiness" scripture.
If one is holy, how can they get more holy?
If one is sanctified, how do they get more sanctified?
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You're in denial.
I showed you where Peter talks about progressing in the traits of the Spirit he lists.
I showed you where Paul talks about growing and maturing in obedience.
Plain words for plain people.
You're in denial.
I will go so far as to say you are in a cult...whatever it is that this group you're associated with is.
 
Hopeful said:
If you trusted even that God was real, you would never commit another sin.
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I want to say you're unacquainted with the realities of what sin is and dealing with the deceitfulness of sin and how it leads us astray like it did Eve (she, who saw God's face, must not have trusted that God was real, right?).

But what I suspect in your case is you are in denial. You are willingly deceiving yourself about the very sin you say you do not have. That's how sin works. I just don't believe you're 100% sinless and have been from the moment you believed. I just don't. And I don't apologize for it. You do not represent the Christianity found in our Bibles. Your experience contradicts the words of scripture so it must be rejected.
 
Hopeful said:
A sin after a feigned repentance from sin is just another sign of the death you experienced at your first sin.
Those not dead to sin commit sin.
It is written..."Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Rom 6:16)

It is written..."So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Rom 8:8-10)
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And so you never know if you have the Spirit in you because there is always tomorrow to reveal that what you think is true about yourself and your relationship with God really hasn't been true all along. What a horrible existence. You can't know that the God that you think you know and answers your prayers is real until you die.

No thanks. I'll go with the loving God in scripture who raises up his children and brings them to maturity through all the bumps on the living room coffee table and all the skinned knees. That's the God of love I know and which scripture reveals. You have not met him yet.
 
Hopeful said:
It was in reply to you weird notion..."Then you are sinning now if you're still waiting to fulfill a facet of obedience." (post747)
That in response to my awaiting a better vessel at the resurrection. (post 740)
I can't "fulfill" something that God promises to the obedient.
God will fulfill it.
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We have been talking about the perfection and completeness of obedience here. Why did you feel it necessary to deviate from that and talk about physical perfection and completeness? I said nothing about that.
 
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Hopeful said:
So you admit to double mindedness?
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I referred to Paul's exhortation to renew the mind.
A renewal that you say you do not need. And, as a Christian, never did!

Hopeful said:
Why not just kill the old man (Rom 6:6) and get reborn? (Rom 6:4)
Now you could have the mind of Christ instead of your fleshly oriented old mind. (1 Cor 2:16)
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The flesh is 'reckoned' to be dead.
Do you know what that means?
It doesn't not mean your flesh is actually dead.
It means you consider it dead.
 
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Hopeful said:
Everything washed by the blood of Christ is clean.
That happens at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38, Rom 3:25)
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No, not always.

We have the account in the Bible of Cornelius and his family and literally countless born again Christians to show us God was not making a hard and fast legalistic rule for receiving the Holy Spirit/salvation at water baptism.
 
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Jethro Bodine said:
No, no, obedience isn't the horrible existence.
Thinking you have to be 100% successful at being obedient to be saved is.
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I don't believe what you or the OT Jews believed.
Jethro Bodine said:
You never know if you're really a child of God because if/when the day comes that even you can't deny that you sin you realize that what you had hoped was obedient salvation wasn't that at all. And then you'll try again not being able to know if you're truly saved in that attempt either. You never know if what you're experiencing is really salvation/God or not. That is a horrible life.
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I thank God for the gift of tongues that accompanied His gift of the Holy Ghost after my repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
I thank God for the revelations He has blessed me with in order to defend the doctrine which is according to Godliness,
I thank God for actually saying words of comfort, prophesy, direction, and teaching, to me.
I have all the "proof" I need.
 
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