Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

You have to decide to walk according to the Spirit within you, but if you don’t it’s because the flesh is still here to walk in by default. When you don’t walk in the Spirit it’s because of the flesh that you still have. Galatians 5:17

If the "flesh" is still in you, then crucify and bury it with Christ...after a true repentance from sin.
Then you will be enabled to walk in the Spirit from then on.
If the "flesh" was in control, the Spirit wasn't in you.
We can only serve one Master. (Matt 6:24)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And that means you have not been reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)

Then neither are you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You just want to provide a salvation without obedience...it seems.

An ever-increasing obedience. Just as scripture says - 2 Peter1:8. The scripture you deny.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If it isn't a Mosaic Law, how can it be "legalism"?

It's not a matter of works being Mosaic vs. non-Mosaic. It's about the fact that doing works of righteousness can not, and will not make you a righteous person. Only the forgiveness of God received by faith can make you a righteous person. Works, any works, have no power to make you a righteous person. The only way to become righteous in God's sight is to have your unrighteousness forgiven.

 

[Hopeful]

But you say there is no sin present to keep out!

If you don't let it in, it won't be in you.

You can’t explain why Paul tells believers who have the Spirit that they sin because of the flesh which is opposed to the Spirit - the flesh you say is dead and gone and can’t do that.

You are supplying your own interpretation to it.
Paul did say that if you walk in the Spirit you won't fulfil the lusts of the flesh.
By your interpretation, which I see making it impossible to walk in the Spirit because of the flesh, doesn't that also make it impossible to walk in the flesh because of the Spirit?
Which will you walk in?

There’s no honest way to make that verse not say what it says. The Spirit and the flesh are opposed to each other in a person, so that you don’t do what you want to do. It doesn’t get any simpler than that.

So those in the Spirit cannot walk in the Spirit because of the flesh.
And those in the flesh cannot walk in the flesh because of the Spirit.
How ludicrous is that?

I've got an idea, kick the flesh out so it won't have any bearing on your life in the Spirit !
That can occur at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and the destruction of the old man of the flesh.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you don't let it in, it won't be in you.

But born again people can't let it in according to you. You're being very contradictory.

 

[Hopeful]

An ever-increasing obedience. Just as scripture says - 2 Peter1:8. The scripture you deny.

You use Gal 5:17 to say it can't happen.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are supplying your own interpretation to it.

I'm reading the plain words. YOU are the one putting a twist on those plain words to guard your own preconceived theology.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You use Gal 5:17 to say it can't happen.

I did not say that.
Galatians 5:17 shows us that the person with the Spirit does not have to be 100% sinless. But we knew that already from 2 Peter 1:8 where Peter speaks of the traits and obedience of the Spirit increasing in a person, not starting out 100% complete and perfect from the beginning. You did not know about these scriptures. If you did you would have rejected this false doctrine of sinless perfection that has deceived you. Just because you don't drink and smoke and take drugs anymore since you believed doesn't mean you're sinless now. You have been deceived.

 

[Hopeful]

It's not a matter of works being Mosaic vs. non-Mosaic. It's about the fact that doing works of righteousness can not, and will not make you a righteous person. Only the forgiveness of God received by faith can make you a righteous person. Works, any works, have no power to make you a righteous person. The only way to become righteous in God's sight is to have your unrighteousness forgiven.

Yes it is a matter of Mosaic Law, just as Paul said in a six different places.
Rom 3:27, 9:32.
Gal 2:16, 3;2, 3;5, 3:10.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

By your interpretation, which I see making it impossible to walk in the Spirit because of the flesh

WRONG!
That's not my interpretation of Galatians 5:17.

 

[Hopeful]

It's not a matter of works being Mosaic vs. non-Mosaic. It's about the fact that doing works of righteousness can not, and will not make you a righteous person. Only the forgiveness of God received by faith can make you a righteous person. Works, any works, have no power to make you a righteous person. The only way to become righteous in God's sight is to have your unrighteousness forgiven.

Being righteous keeps us righteous.
I can't do the unrighteous things and still honestly call myself a Christian.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes it is a matter of Mosaic Law, just as Paul said in a six different places.
Rom 3:27, 9:32.
Gal 2:16, 3;2, 3;5, 3:10.

You don't understand.
Works don't justify because they are in the law of Moses.
Works don't justify because doing them can not make you righteous.
Only receiving God's forgiveness, by having faith in that forgiveness, can make you righteous.
You along with many, many other people simply do not understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

But born again people can't let it in according to you.

Correct !

You're being very contradictory.

How is maintaining freedom from the aggressor contradictory?
If you don't let roaches in your home, roaches won't reign in your home !
Is that contradictory?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Being righteous keeps us righteous.

That's works!
That's the self righteous works gospel that will leave you unprepared to meet Jesus when he returns. You're depending on becoming righteous by doing righteous works and rituals.

 

[Hopeful]

I'm reading the plain words. YOU are the one putting a twist on those plain words to guard your own preconceived theology.

Beg to differ.
If the flesh won't let one walk in the Spirit, so too the Spirit won't let one walk in the flesh.
Pick your Master !

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you don't let roaches in your home, roaches won't reign in your home !
Is that contradictory?

Yes, because you say they can't come in anyway!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If the flesh won't let one walk in the Spirit, so too the Spirit won't let one walk in the flesh.
Pick your Master !

The flesh will only prevent you from walking in the Spirit IF YOU LET IT.
Thus the admonition to not let sin reign in you!
Paul is not saying the flesh can not make you sin. There is no language there that says that. None.

 

[Hopeful]

I did not say that.
Galatians 5:17 shows us that the person with the Spirit does not have to be 100% sinless. But we knew that already from 2 Peter 1:8 where Peter speaks of the traits and obedience of the Spirit increasing in a person, not starting out 100% complete and perfect from the beginning. You did not know about these scriptures. If you did you would have rejected this false doctrine of sinless perfection that has deceived you. Just because you don't drink and smoke and take drugs anymore since you believed doesn't mean you're sinless now. You have been deceived.

I get it...we don't need to obey God to be saved !
I know better than that.

Who do you love?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I get it...we don't need to obey God to be saved !

No, you DON'T get it.
You don't need to do righteous works TO BECOME RIGHTEOUS.
That happens entirely by receiving God's forgiveness, by faith, apart from works.
That has nothing to do with what 'kind' of works do or don't make you righteous.
NO WORK makes you righteous. That was the profound error of the Jews who thought by doing righteous works and rituals they BECOME righteous.