Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

All Christians have that power the moment they believe.
The Christian learns to walk in that power more and more (2 Peter 1:8 NIV).

That doesn't agree with your post 1414.
"As God works that in me." ?

No, because Catholics say the righteousness infused into the believer and which he grows up into is the very righteousness by which one is then justified (becomes righteous in God's sight). That is the theology that Luther resisted and rebelled against. But it seems the Catholic church has since come around to some extent to the same revelation he received about the matter.

Since neither are righteous, shouldn't you be looking for the real church?

 

[Hopeful]

Do you think the Only sign of the reception or indwelling of the Holy Spirit is perfect sinlessness?

No.

Could there be other signs?

The gift of tongues is the first gift a newly baptized believer receives...if his repentance from sin was real.

 

[Hopeful]

Servant of sin.
Please look up what servant means..
Cannot do right now.
Please post it.

You may not want to.

It is written..."Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)
Commit a sin, and you manifest whom you serve.

 

[Hopeful]

It won't work!!

It has worked for nearly 2000 years already.

 

[Hopeful]

It will definitely remain a small, obscure church, for obvious reasons.

Not many will truly "turn from" sin.
Just as the original Israel was the smallest kingdom, so too are we now.
But God's kingdom the strongest.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Flesh is not "available to the believer", as it has been destroyed, circumcised, crucified. (Rom 6:6, Col 2:11, Gal 5:24)

You can say this over and over and over as many times as you want but until you make Galatians 5:17 and other scriptures go away you have no case.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Gal 5:16..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

He has to say that because of Galatians 5:17, lol.

The believer has two choices. They can either walk in the Spirit they have received in salvation, or walk in the flesh they still have. That's why Paul has to tell believers to be careful to make the choice for the Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is not what the verse says.
It said they both have an opposing force.

...so that YOU, who has the Spirit, don't do what you want to do. Read it!

That destroys your sinless perfection argument perfectly and without question.
The believer has both the flesh and the Spirit warring inside of them so that they don't do what they want.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That doesn't agree with your post 1414.
"As God works that in me." ?

As God works victory over sin in me, not justification. Justification happened the instant I believed.

Catholics say God is busy working justification in them so they can be saved when he returns. I'm already completely and forever justified (as long as I keep believing). They would be too if they would just receive it. Then they wouldn't be busy working their own righteousness in the hope of being justified at the return of Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That doesn't agree with your post 1414.
"As God works that in me." ?

Since neither are righteous, shouldn't you be looking for the real church?

I am in the real church. I have the Spirit of God in me as evidenced by my growth in the traits and characteristics of the Spirit:

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

10Therefore, brothers, strive to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This passage alone ruins the sinless perfection lie you are being deceived by.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not many will truly "turn from" sin.
Just as the original Israel was the smallest kingdom, so too are we now.
But God's kingdom the strongest.

Your numbers are so few in number it amounts to insignificance.
Even in Israel in Elijah's day there were 7,000 who had not bowed their knee to Baal. That's a significant number compared to the size of Israel. So, considering the population of the world today your sinless perfection movement is going to have to get a lot bigger before anyone can consider it a legitimate move of God. 'Taint gonna happen.

 

[GodsGrace]

They all teach it, but then just brush it aside.
What do you become when you turn from sin? "...Repent..."
Don't you become an ex-sinner?
What happens to you when your old sins are washed away? "...and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..."
Are you not perfectly sinless?
The ex-sinners who have had their "temple" cleansed by the blood of Christ can, and should, ask the God of everything to give them His Holy Spirit. ..."and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

What does repent mean?
Baptism washes away old sins.
At the moment you're perfectly sinless.
What makes YOU know if someone has the Holy Spirit or not?
Whether or not they sin?

As I've said, saying one doesn't sin, is a sin.
It's the sin of pride.

Proverbs 27:2
2Let another praise you, and not your own mouth;
A stranger, and not your own lips.



Luke 18:9-14
9Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else: 10“Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector.
11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayerb: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—cheaters, sinners, adulterers. I’m certainly not like that tax collector!
12I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’
13“But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’
14I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”



Don't be like the Pharisee.

 

[Hopeful]

You can say this over and over and over as many times as you want but until you make Galatians 5:17 and other scriptures go away you have no case.

I think I will take Paul's advice in order to not serve sin anymore.
I will walk in the Spirit so I don't fulfil the lusts of the now dead flesh. (Rom 6:6, Col 2:11, Gal 5:24)

 

[Hopeful]

He has to say that because of Galatians 5:17, lol.

The believer has two choices. They can either walk in the Spirit they have received in salvation, or walk in the flesh they still have. That's why Paul has to tell believers to be careful to make the choice for the Spirit.

Still have?
I guess you are talking about skin and bones and not the worldly oriented (fleshly) mind.
Personally, my hands, feet, and heart, are at the behest of the new "mind of Christ" I was given at my rebirth from God's seed.
I am a new creature. (2 Cor 5:17)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think I will take Paul's advice in order to not serve sin anymore.
I will walk in the Spirit so I don't fulfil the lusts of the now dead flesh. (Rom 6:6, Col 2:11, Gal 5:24)

The important thing is that you realize it is still there and that you could walk in it, being vigilant to not walk in it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Still have?
I guess you are talking about skin and bones and not the worldly oriented (fleshly) mind.
Personally, my hands, feet, and heart, are at the behest of the new "mind of Christ" I was given at my rebirth from God's seed.
I am a new creature. (2 Cor 5:17)

Yes, still have. Thus the nature of the battle between the Spirit in you and the flesh ‘so that you don’t do what you want’ Galatians 5:17.

 

[Hopeful]

...so that YOU, who has the Spirit, don't do what you want to do. Read it!

That destroys your sinless perfection argument perfectly and without question.
The believer has both the flesh and the Spirit warring inside of them so that they don't do what they want.

Can't you see that those in the Spirit cannot do the things of the flesh and those in the flesh cannot do the things of the Spirit?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I guess you are talking about skin and bones and not the worldly oriented (fleshly) mind.
Personally, my hands, feet, and heart, are at the behest of the new "mind of Christ" I was given at my rebirth from God's seed.
I am a new creature. (2 Cor 5:17)

The Spirit is not contrary to skin and bones. It is contrary to the corrupt desires of the flesh. Which you still have and which is in opposition to the Spirit in you ‘so that you don’t do what you want’ Galatians 5:17.

 

[Hopeful]

As God works victory over sin in me, not justification. Justification happened the instant I believed.

Isn't it you who has the victory over sin?
If you refrain from stealing the victory is yours.
If you steal, your justification just turned into unbelief.

Catholics say God is busy working justification in them so they can be saved when he returns. I'm already completely and forever justified (as long as I keep believing). They would be too if they would just receive it. Then they wouldn't be busy working their own righteousness in the hope of being justified at the return of Christ.

They are just too adept at accommodations for sin to be justified and sanctified.
But the truth will free them from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)

 

[Hopeful]

I am in the real church. I have the Spirit of God in me as evidenced by my growth in the traits and characteristics of the Spirit:

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

10Therefore, brothers, strive to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This passage alone ruins the sinless perfection lie you are being deceived by.

Were that true, why are you even trying not to "stumble"?
What is the goal of verses 5 through 10?
"If you do these things you will NEVER stumble."