Does man have free will to choose salvation?

[hawkman]

Original Sin

Author: Jesus didn't believe in 'original sin' and neither should we

 

[electedbyHim]

Author: Jesus didn't believe in 'original sin' and neither should we

Seriously, not one Scripture reference to support her opinion. Nothing.

Danielle Shroyer a forner pastor. That should tell you everything.

Woman are forbid to be Pastors, why?

Because woman are easily deceived according to Scripture as is this woman you quoted.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Timothy 2:13 For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve.
1 Timothy 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

 

[hawkman]

Seriously, not one Scripture reference to support her opinion. Nothing.

Ahh , it is in the book , you will have to order a copy .

In this book, Danielle Shroyer takes readers through an overview of the historical development of the doctrine, pointing out important missteps and overcalculations, and providing alternative ways to approach often-used Scriptures.

Original Blessing: Putting Sin in Its Rightful Place

 

[Fastfredy0]

"Pick my desires"? Where have I used this phrase in my posts in this thread? Instead, when I spoke of "creaturely freedom" I defined it as "the categorical capacity to refrain or not to refrain from a given moral action."

"The categorical capacity to refrain or not to refrain from a given moral action" is determined by your "desires".

In other words ... Your desires = "the categorical capacity to refrain or not to refrain from a given moral action."

So I repeat: ... God is the first cause of all things ... you can't create your self-determined desires out of nothing for from nothing nothing comes and you were nothing at one time.
or to put it in your terms ...
God is the first cause of all things ... you can't create your self-determined desires "categorical capacity to refrain or not to refrain from a given moral action" out of nothing for from nothing nothing comes and you were nothing at one time.

I don't know what you mean by "pick your desires."

Your "desires' or what you call "the categorical capacity to refrain or not to refrain from a given moral action" ... what is the CAUSE of your desires?
... or maybe you don't follow what you desire to do what you want to do the most at the time which I am assuming you do.

 

[electedbyHim]

No one has debunked the OP.

There have been attempts, but mostly claiming that humans are born sinless.

Let me rephrase the OP.

Does man have free will to choose salvation?​

 

[Davos]

To me Ephesians chapter one is perfectly clear...matching with many other passages. Such as in John 6. No man can come to the me unless the father draws him.

No one has debunked the OP.

There have been attempts, but mostly claiming that humans are born sinless.

Let me rephrase the OP.

Does man have free will to choose salvation?​

 

[electedbyHim]

To me Ephesians chapter one is perfectly clear...matching with many other passages. Such as in John 6. No man can come to the me unless the father draws him.

Agreed.

Ephesians is straight to the point, but humans want to share in God's glory in His saving process.

I cannot understand that thinking.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Fastfredy0]

1. Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance, and in Your book all the days [of my life] were written before ever they took shape, when as yet there was none of them. [Your life is written (not recorded) by God]
2. Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
3. Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord [pleads Jeremiah in the name of the people], I know that [the determination of] the way of a man is not in himself; it is not in man [even in a strong man or in a man at his best] to direct his [own] steps.
4. Matthew 11:27 All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known.
5. John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh [the flesh is carnal and flesh always lusteth against the Spirit], nor of the will of man, but of GOD. Martin Luther: they become the sons of God, neither by the birth of the flesh, nor by a devoted observance of the law, nor by any devoted human effort whatever, but by a Divine birth only. Those three negative statements stress the fact that salvation is not obtainable through any racial or ethnic heritage ( blood ), personal desire ( flesh ), or man-made system ( man ). (See also Matthew 8:11–12; Luke 3:8; Galatians 3:28–29.) John MacArthur
6. John 3:27 John replied, “A man can receive nothing [he can claim nothing at all] unless it has been granted to him from heaven [for there is no other source than the sovereign will of God]. Does man have a “Free-will” over God, that God should do and obey in those things which man will? Surely not.
7. John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.”
8. John 6:63 The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help!
9. 1 Corinthians 4:7 For who regards you as superior or what sets you apart as special? What do you have that you did not receive
10. 1 Corinthians 12:3b And no one can [really] say, Jesus is [my] Lord, except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit.
11. hundreds more verses
12. about 4 or 5 verses for the other side, said verses dependent upon the ambiguous meaning of "world" or "all"

Causality is a connection of phenomena through which one thing (the cause) under certain conditions gives rise to, causes something else (the effect). The first cause must be from a source that is eternal. God is the only eternal entity [and thus his being is causeless] and thus the ‘first cause’ of all things. Thus, the God is the cause of the human will, thus man’s will is not free; rather, it is designed by God.

 

[Fastfredy0]

• If God knows, that by creating you, you will end up in hell, how is he not determined you to end up in hell by creating you?
• If freewill is true why has there never been a sinless human?
• Why do “freewill” proponents say “Lord willing"? James 4:15
• If freewill is true why "pray" for the salvation of another?
• If freewill is true why do people so strongly tend to have the religious or non-religious views of their parents?
• If you think that you have this freedom from God, this autonomous free will, then you would not need to play by God's laws in the first place. It's ironic, responsibility violates the idea of free will.
• Explain how you can metaphysically disconnect yourself from God how can God then for know what you're going to do?
• When we pray for something, we often are praying that another’s “free will” will be curtailed by outside circumstances and physical limitations.
• Billions of people have died without knowledge of Christ. How do they exercise Free Will to believe in Christ in order to be saved?
• Amazingly, free will, somehow works differently than the rest of the universe. You can magically chose to choose what you want to choose despite your greatest desire, despite “cause and effect”, despite your depraved disposition sustained by God. How can this be?
• yada, yada

 

[electedbyHim]

1. Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance, and in Your book all the days [of my life] were written before ever they took shape, when as yet there was none of them. [Your life is written (not recorded) by God]
2. Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
3. Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord [pleads Jeremiah in the name of the people], I know that [the determination of] the way of a man is not in himself; it is not in man [even in a strong man or in a man at his best] to direct his [own] steps.
4. Matthew 11:27 All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known.
5. John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh [the flesh is carnal and flesh always lusteth against the Spirit], nor of the will of man, but of GOD. Martin Luther: they become the sons of God, neither by the birth of the flesh, nor by a devoted observance of the law, nor by any devoted human effort whatever, but by a Divine birth only. Those three negative statements stress the fact that salvation is not obtainable through any racial or ethnic heritage ( blood ), personal desire ( flesh ), or man-made system ( man ). (See also Matthew 8:11–12; Luke 3:8; Galatians 3:28–29.) John MacArthur
6. John 3:27 John replied, “A man can receive nothing [he can claim nothing at all] unless it has been granted to him from heaven [for there is no other source than the sovereign will of God]. Does man have a “Free-will” over God, that God should do and obey in those things which man will? Surely not.
7. John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.”
8. John 6:63 The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help!
9. 1 Corinthians 4:7 For who regards you as superior or what sets you apart as special? What do you have that you did not receive
10. 1 Corinthians 12:3b And no one can [really] say, Jesus is [my] Lord, except by and under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit.
11. hundreds more verses
12. about 4 or 5 verses for the other side, said verses dependent upon the ambiguous meaning of "world" or "all"

Causality is a connection of phenomena through which one thing (the cause) under certain conditions gives rise to, causes something else (the effect). The first cause must be from a source that is eternal. God is the only eternal entity [and thus his being is causeless] and thus the ‘first cause’ of all things. Thus, the God is the cause of the human will, thus man’s will is not free; rather, it is designed by God.

Thank you for this.

 

[electedbyHim]

• If God knows, that by creating you, you will end up in hell, how is he not determined you to end up in hell by creating you?
• If freewill is true why has there never been a sinless human?
• Why do “freewill” proponents say “Lord willing"? James 4:15
• If freewill is true why "pray" for the salvation of another?
• If freewill is true why do people so strongly tend to have the religious or non-religious views of their parents?
• If you think that you have this freedom from God, this autonomous free will, then you would not need to play by God's laws in the first place. It's ironic, responsibility violates the idea of free will.
• Explain how you can metaphysically disconnect yourself from God how can God then for know what you're going to do?
• When we pray for something, we often are praying that another’s “free will” will be curtailed by outside circumstances and physical limitations.
• Billions of people have died without knowledge of Christ. How do they exercise Free Will to believe in Christ in order to be saved?
• Amazingly, free will, somehow works differently than the rest of the universe. You can magically chose to choose what you want to choose despite your greatest desire, despite “cause and effect”, despite your depraved disposition sustained by God. How can this be?
• yada, yada

I would love to see answers to these questions.

 

[stockwell]

Does man have free will to choose salvation?​

I define "free will" as the ability to do what you desire most at the time.

... so regarding salvation .... we have "free will" ... this leads to the question: what is the cause of our desires?

The first cause of our desires is GOD. The Law of Causality states: a rule of the universe that says every event that happens is the result of a specific cause. Imagine you have a row of dominoes; if you knock the first one over (cause), the rest will fall down in sequence (effect). This rule helps us figure out why things happen and what could happen next.
Application of the Law of Causality: When one who supports the idea of self-determinism is asked “why you did something he has no answer”. He will resort to a non-answer like “because I wanted to”. When asked why he wanted to he responses “because I choice to want to”; when asked why he choice to want to, he responses “because I wanted to choice to want to” … and on and on the circular reason goes. It contradicts the Law of Causality.
You don't pick your sex, your parents or your desires. I.E. Psalm 51:5

If one define "free will" as self-determinism (not influenced by others) the logic dictates that to be impossible. Empirical evidence validates this statement. Google "parent's influence on a person's religious beliefs" (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/09/10/shared-beliefs-between-parents-and-teens/) and you will find that children tend to follow the beliefs of their parents which proves self-determinism is false). (I assume the reader as elementary knowledge of statistics and and probability.)

Free will is a myth of man.
You can't have free will because that means your will supersedes god's will....it only appears we have free will...god is sovereign...Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Eph. 1:11 - "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of him WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL."

Free will as it is taught is not supported by Jesus or any of his teachings.

The word "free" as it is used in "free will" can only mean that a person can think thoughts, make choices, and perform activities completely on his own with nothing CAUSING him to think, choose, or perform. If a person can think a thought or make a choice or perform an action, then he did not do it FREELY. He may have done it Voluntarily, but not FREELY.

God gives us THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of choices according to our own wills. It's just that NONE of them are exercised WITHOUT INFLUENCE (or a cause that makes us do as we do).

Try some experimenting. Sit still and try to come up with a thought, choice or action that has zero influence. There are no effects in the physical or mental universe that have no causes.

"Once the World has been actualised or created, then no Individual has the Free Will to do ‘other than’ what God saw in His mind prior to Creation"

"NO ONE CAN come to Me if ever the Father Who sends Me should not be drawing him" (John 6:44).
It is not our mythical Free Will.