Does man have free will to choose salvation?

[brightfame52]

"You must be born again" isn't just a suggestion.

Its not a command for a person to do. Just like its not a command for a person to be a New Creation Eph. 2:10; 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 4:24

Its not a command to resurrect onself from the dead Eph. 2:1,5

Its not a command to be born again Jno. 3:3-8; Jno. 1:l 3; I Pet. 1:23-25; I Jno. 3:9; I Jno. 5:1

Man doesnt have a freewill to decide these things, if he did, he becomes God, all these things are the prerogative of God only,

Until then, man is a spiritual non entity.

 

[brightfame52]

Show me from the bible where it says "Jesus is God".
I'll show you in from bible where it says "The Word took on flesh".
John 1:14..."And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

BTW, this has gotten us far too from the OP's idea.

Im not arguing that point now, but Jesus is God and you and i are not.

 

[brightfame52]

Are you really saying anyone will be saved without being born again ?
I hope not !

How can anything happen before one believes in Who or what needs to be done ?
The unbelieving won't turn from sin.
The unbelieving won't get water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins.
The unbelieving won't receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, or speak in tongues, or glorify God with good works.

Without the will to please God, we can't please God.
Pro 8:21..."That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures."

Nope, making me rejoice in the fact that we CAN will to be reborn !

Jesus said..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

As all "work iniquity" before their repentance from sin, why is God assigning them to salvation at all ?

man plays no part in being born again, being resurrected or being created new, man cant be God.

A Christian /Believer is Gods Creation alone Isa 43 7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

Nope, making me rejoice in the fact that we CAN will to be reborn !

Then you can will to be co Creator with God, which is Blasphemy to say the least 2 Thess 2:4

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[electedbyHim]

There you go !
Two entities in One !
Both capable of operating independently from the other.

Scripture ascribes God’s various works in the economy of redemption to a particular member of the Trinity. The Father is particularly singled out as the Creator (1 Pet. 4:19); the p 192 Son is distinguished as the Redeemer and Mediator (Rom. 3:24; Eph. 1:7; 1 Tim. 2:5); and the Spirit is identified as the agent of sanctification (2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:2).44 The external works of the Trinity in the economy of redemption therefore reflect the order established by the internal works of eternal generation and procession within the divine life. The Father sends the Son in the economy of redemption because he begets the Son eternally. The Spirit is sent by the Father and Son ad extra because he eternally proceeds from them ad intra.
Nevertheless, in all these works, all three persons of the Trinity work inseparably together (cf. John 14:10). Though one person or another may be emphasized in a particular work, no one person does any work exclusive of the other two persons, for, as the classic dictum states, “the external works of the Trinity are undivided” (opera Trinitatis ad extra indivisa sunt). Note, for example, the following passages, which ascribe the works outlined above to the other persons of the Trinity:

1. Creation and preservation
a. Through the Son (John 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16–17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Heb. 1:2–3, 10)
b. Through the Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Job 26:13; 32:8; 33:4; 34:14–15; Ps. 104:30)
2. Redemption
a. Through the Father (1 Chron. 17:21; Isa. 63:16; Gal. 4:4–5)
b. Through the Spirit (Heb. 9:14; Rom. 8:11)
3. Sanctification
a. Through the Father (John 17:17; 1 Thess. 5:23)
b. Through the Son (1 Cor. 1:30; Eph. 5:25–27)


44 Another way of stating this is that the plan of redemption is attributed to the Father, the accomplishment of redemption is attributed to the Son, and the application of redemption is attributed to the Spirit. Still another alternative is to say that in the economy of redemption, all things are from the Father, through the Son, and in the Spirit.

cf. compare

Biblical Doctrine: A Systematic Summary of Bible Truth (Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2017), 191–192.

 

[electedbyHim]

No.
Why did you ask that question ?

I reject all of unconverted man's interpretations of what is truth in the bible.

1 John 4:3..."And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
I don't reject any verse in the bible.

OK, as long as you never forget that the truth can free you from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh?

If so, I stand corrected.

OK, as long as you never forget that the truth can free you from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)

No one is sinless, as a Christian, not even you.

 

[electedbyHim]

I think we need to stick to Gods Word rather mans ideas...
Proverbs 16:9 - A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

John 7:17 - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

James 1:13-16 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

I am not sure I am understanding what you are trying to convey.

In context do any of those verses pertain to man having free will to choose salvation?

 

[brightfame52]

See when Jesus said a man must be born again, He in essence is saying man needs to be made Alive, or made a New Creation, this is beyond the ability of man having freewill in the matter, even to cooperate, since man is a spiritually dead sinner. The flesh profits nothing in this matter Jn 6 63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Flesh here includes mans will, it profits nothing to being made alive. The word profit ōpheleō:

1. to assist, to be useful or advantageous, to profit

Our flesh doesnt assist,isnt useful, adds nothing. So Jesus said earlier about being born again Jn 1:13

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, the NT explains that you can be free of your sin nature
only by being born again with the Holy Spirit helping you.

Haven't you read in the OT and NT ...
David said he was born in sin.

What can a man do about his sinful nature?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Its not a command for a person to do. Just like its not a command for a person to be a New Creation Eph. 2:10; 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 4:24

Its not a command to resurrect onself from the dead Eph. 2:1,5

Its not a command to be born again Jno. 3:3-8; Jno. 1:l 3; I Pet. 1:23-25; I Jno. 3:9; I Jno. 5:1

Man doesnt have a freewill to decide these things, if he did, he becomes God, all these things are the prerogative of God only,

Until then, man is a spiritual non entity.

Our opinions differ.
God gave me the opportunity, through Jesus Christ, to turn from sin and be washed of them by the blood of Christ at my water baptism into Him, and into His death, burial, and resurrection...being regenerated thereby.
I took that opportunity to get right with Him.

Your doctrine says you were forced.
How do you know you were chosen ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

man plays no part in being born again, being resurrected or being created new, man cant be God.

A Christian /Believer is Gods Creation alone Isa 43 7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Jesus gave us commands to obey.
You say we can't do that.
I don't believe you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful 2
Then you can will to be co Creator with God, which is Blasphemy to say the least 2 Thess 2:4

God hasn't provided the means of such a thing; like He has for our conversion, cleansing, rebirth, and faithful endurance.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Does God decide when you will get up in the morning, or what you will eat for breakfast ?
Does God decide when to make you commit a sin ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Scripture ascribes God’s various works in the economy of redemption to a particular member of the Trinity. The Father is particularly singled out as the Creator (1 Pet. 4:19); the p 192 Son is distinguished as the Redeemer and Mediator (Rom. 3:24; Eph. 1:7; 1 Tim. 2:5); and the Spirit is identified as the agent of sanctification (2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:2).44 The external works of the Trinity in the economy of redemption therefore reflect the order established by the internal works of eternal generation and procession within the divine life. The Father sends the Son in the economy of redemption because he begets the Son eternally. The Spirit is sent by the Father and Son ad extra because he eternally proceeds from them ad intra.
Nevertheless, in all these works, all three persons of the Trinity work inseparably together (cf. John 14:10). Though one person or another may be emphasized in a particular work, no one person does any work exclusive of the other two persons, for, as the classic dictum states, “the external works of the Trinity are undivided” (opera Trinitatis ad extra indivisa sunt). Note, for example, the following passages, which ascribe the works outlined above to the other persons of the Trinity:

1. Creation and preservation
a. Through the Son (John 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16–17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Heb. 1:2–3, 10)
b. Through the Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Job 26:13; 32:8; 33:4; 34:14–15; Ps. 104:30)
2. Redemption
a. Through the Father (1 Chron. 17:21; Isa. 63:16; Gal. 4:4–5)
b. Through the Spirit (Heb. 9:14; Rom. 8:11)
3. Sanctification
a. Through the Father (John 17:17; 1 Thess. 5:23)
b. Through the Son (1 Cor. 1:30; Eph. 5:25–27)


44 Another way of stating this is that the plan of redemption is attributed to the Father, the accomplishment of redemption is attributed to the Son, and the application of redemption is attributed to the Spirit. Still another alternative is to say that in the economy of redemption, all things are from the Father, through the Son, and in the Spirit.

cf. compare

Biblical Doctrine: A Systematic Summary of Bible Truth (Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2017), 191–192.

I don't trust anything issued from Wheaton, Ill.
I do believe the apostles and their writings..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Two commandments, and the results of their commission.
Don't try telling me there is nothing we can do to be saved.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh?
If so, I stand corrected.

Jesus is the Word, who took on flesh.

No one is sinless, as a Christian, not even you.

Everyone who is "in Christ" is sinless, as there is no sin in Christ.
Has Calvinism incorporated sin into Christ ?

 

[electedbyHim]

I don't trust anything issued from Wheaton, Ill.
I do believe the apostles and their writings..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Two commandments, and the results of their commission.
Don't try telling me there is nothing we can do to be saved.

God's word is tellling you there is nothing you can do to be saved.

Your sinful pride blinds you.

 

[electedbyHim]

Jesus is the Word, who took on flesh.

Everyone who is "in Christ" is sinless, as there is no sin in Christ.
Has Calvinism incorporated sin into Christ ?

So, you do not believe Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh.

I was right before.

 

[Hopeful 2]

God's word is tellling you there is nothing you can do to be saved.

Were that true, then nobody will go to hell for disobeying Peter in Acts 2:38.

Your sinful pride blinds you.

My pride was replaced with thanksgiving, after I obeyed Peter in Acts 2:38.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So, you do not believe Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh.

I was right before.

It was the Word that took on flesh and bones.

 

[brightfame52]

Our opinions differ.
God gave me the opportunity, through Jesus Christ, to turn from sin and be washed of them by the blood of Christ at my water baptism into Him, and into His death, burial, and resurrection...being regenerated thereby.
I took that opportunity to get right with Him.

Your doctrine says you were forced.
How do you know you were chosen ?

Your opinion is contrary to the truth, to be born again is in the passive voice and its not a command.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus gave us commands to obey.
You say we can't do that.
I don't believe you.

man plays no part in being born again, being resurrected or being created new, man cant be God.

A Christian /Believer is Gods Creation alone Isa 43 7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Sure a person will obey after they are born again