Does man have free will to choose salvation?

[JLB]

Condemned people cant believe, since they are condemned by the law. Nobody Christ died for is condemned because He satisfied Gods law and justice for them, so they are given faith to believe.

Just opinion.


God loves the world of unsaved people.

Those who believe will be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Believe is the condition to be saved.

 

[Ritajanice]

Why do they say that they freely chose to believe? They don't realize then that God enabled them to believe by the power of the Holy Spirit through Jesus' victory. You can enlighten them with Lydia in Philippi as your example, Act_16:14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Yes well, maybe you should be telling them that.

Yes, the Spirit opened my heart to be birthed in the Spirit, His seed remains in me , in my spirit where it has taken root, soil represents the heart/ spirit,and there it continues to grow into Jesus image and bear his fruit.

The Spirit works non stop in my heart.

 

[Ritajanice]

What proof do folks have that God gave the faith ?

By His Living witness, who plants/ births the seed of faith into our heart/spirit..who brings our spirit Alive in Christ?..who gifts us spiritual rebirth?

Soil represents the heart, that’s where the seed of God remains, in our heart/ spirit.thats where the seed the Holy Spirit indwells..Born Again of imperishable / incorruptible seed

Do they start to work miracles ?
Do they start to heal the sick ?
Do they suddenly stop committing sin ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

By His Living witness, who plants/ births the seed of faith into our heart/spirit..who brings our spirit Alive in Christ?..who gifts us spiritual rebirth?

Soil represents the heart, that’s where the seed of God remains, in our heart/ spirit.thats where the seed the Holy Spirit indwells..Born Again of imperishable / incorruptible seed

What is the proof of having been given faith ?

 

[Ritajanice]

What is the proof of having been given faith ?

I’ve just explained it to you in my last post.

Whose witness gifts us the faith to believe in our spirit?

Faith is a gift from God.

How do you know God is who he says he is Hopeful 2 ?

 

[brightfame52]

Again, Brightfame. I was hoping to discuss scripture, not personal beliefs.

But as you were. Just thought I would ask.

Blessings in Christ to you and yours,
Hidden

. All of us are born wicked, sinners and ungodly, do you believe that ? This is scripture related, didnt Christ die for sinners and ungodly according to Rom 5:6-8

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

 

[brightfame52]

Just opinion.


God loves the world of unsaved people.

Those who believe will be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Believe is the condition to be saved.

One has to be saved already to believe. Those who believe had already eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Free]

If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly the elect refers to something other than elected for salvation.

If the elect don’t have salvation then obviously elect refers to something other than salvation.

Elect plainly refers to election for purpose not election for salvation.

That’s why election is to be understood for purpose not for salvation.

Again, your conclusions don't follow. It's a pretty simple verse to understand.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (ESV)

Paul is clearly talking about the salvation of the elect, specifically those elect who were not yet saved. The elect could be either both Jews and Gentiles, or just Gentiles, since, as I previously pointed out, that was the people group to whom he was sent by God.

for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls. Romans 9:11


The Jews were called the elect because they were elected to be the people that God chose to bring forth the Messiah through their lineage.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, (ESV)

This is speaking of the election of Gentiles, is it not?

 

[hawkman]

One has to be saved already to believe. Those who believe had already eternal life Acts 13:48

You need to believe before you can accept the free gift of grace .

 

[brightfame52]

You need to believe before you can accept the free gift of grace .

Never heard of that. I know a lost person cannot believe because the Gospel is hid to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: So one has to be saved from a lost condition to believe the Gospel

 

[hawkman]

I know a lost person cannot believe because the Gospel is hid to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3

Here are the two verses and I will show you something . The Gospel is hid to " them which believe not " .
If you believe the gospel it is NOT hid from you and you can accept the free gift of salvation ! Praise God !

3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[JLB]

Again, your conclusions don't follow. It's a pretty simple verse to understand.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (ESV)

Paul is clearly talking about the salvation of the elect, specifically those elect who were not yet saved. The elect could be either both Jews and Gentiles, or just Gentiles, since, as I previously pointed out, that was the people group to whom he was sent by God.


Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, (ESV)

This is speaking of the election of Gentiles, is it not?

It’s very simple.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

Paul wanted the elect to also obtain salvation.


If Paul wanted the elect to also obtain salvation then being elect doesn’t mean you have salvation.


If being elect meant you already had salvation then why would Paul endure so much suffering for the sake of the elect, so that they also may obtain salvation?

 

[JLB]

One has to be saved already to believe. Those who believe had already eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

The truth says a person must believe to be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[Free]

It’s very simple.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

Paul wanted the elect to also obtain salvation.


If Paul wanted the elect to also obtain salvation then being elect doesn’t mean you have salvation.


If being elect meant you already had salvation then why would Paul endure so much suffering for the sake of the elect, so that they also may obtain salvation?

Yes, exactly. It’s about the elect becoming saved, not “election is to be understood for purpose not for salvation,” which you have been arguing.

 

[electedbyHim]

By saying “they also” the Spirit through Paul desires for the elect to obtain salvation; something they do not have.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10



1. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly salvation isn’t automatic to the elect.

2. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly the elect refers to something other than elected for salvation.


If they are elected but don’t have salvation then “elected” plainly refers to something other than salvation.


Elect refers to the Jews, who were elected for a purpose not elected for salvation.

The purpose was to be the people through who the Messiah would come.

For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5

Really bad theology right here.

Theie are only 2 types of people in the Bible the Elect, which were chosen by God before the foundations of the world and the Reprobate who will never believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[JLB]

Really bad theology right here.

Theie are only 2 types of people in the Bible the Elect, which were chosen by God before the foundations of the world and the Reprobate who will never believe in Jesus Christ.

No theology just truth.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10



1. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly salvation isn’t automatic to the elect.

2. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly the elect refers to something other than elected for salvation.


3. If they are elected but don’t have salvation then “elected” plainly refers to something other than salvation.



Which point do you disagree with?

 

[electedbyHim]

No theology just truth.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10



1. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly salvation isn’t automatic to the elect.

2. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly the elect refers to something other than elected for salvation.


3. If they are elected but don’t have salvation then “elected” plainly refers to something other than salvation.



Which point do you disagree with?

You post the same thing over and over.

None of it makes sense.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I’ve just explained it to you in my last post.

You shown no evidence of a gift.

Whose witness gifts us the faith to believe in our spirit?

Sorry, that sentence made no sense to me.

Faith is a gift from God.

Do you have a verse or two to prove that ?

How do you know God is who he says he is Hopeful 2 ?

The evidence is all around me.
From the sun's rising every morning to the ability to resist every temptation, I am reminded of God's existence every day.

 

[Ritajanice]

You shown no evidence of a gift.

According to you.

Sorry, that sentence made no sense to me.

Who witnesses Gods truth to our spirit?

Who has God sent to witness of him?

Jesus was one witness / Messiah was he not?

So who was sent after the death and resurrection of Jesus?

Who indwells our spirit? Whose will are we in?

Like Jesus we too are in the will of the Father when our spirit is Born Again?

Who are we obedient to as spirit children?

Who did we used to obey when we were unregenerate.?

Do you have a verse or two to prove that ?

Faith is a gift from God, a supernatural gift, who birthed your spirit into his, do you understand that scripture ?
We are Born Again of imperishable seed, whose seed penetrated your heart/spirit? that’s where we are Born Again, just as His word says.

The evidence is all around me.

From the sun's rising every morning to the ability to resist every temptation, I am reminded of God's existence every day.

His creation can only truly be shown us and known, by the Spiritual rebirth, the Holy Spirit who births our spirit into his, then I saw with those spirit eyes we are gifted at rebirth, the moment his Spirit gives birth to ours, supernaturally...by divine heart revelation, we grow in our spirit to know more and more of God...all according to his purpose and his plan.
The evidence of God, is in our spirit/heart, who gave birth to our spirit? what’s that if it’s not evidence..divine, heart, revelation at that,..the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children,..what’s that if it’s not supernatural faith, he gifts us faith to believe in our spirit...that’s where I know God,..when we’re birthed, the seed penetrates our heart, which represents the soil, that’s where Gods gift of Faith takes root and starts to grow.

We are gifted faith/ spirit rebirth to know God in our spirit, if we don’t have his Spirit, we are none of his, we must be Born Again, Supernaturally Born Again, by divine heart revelation .

Are you Arminian believer?

 

[Ritajanice]

re

You need to believe before you can accept the free gift of grace .

God brings us to initially believe in Jesus, he draws us to Jesus, who gifts us the supernatural faith to believe who God is in our spirit?

You can’t believe in God, without that spiritual rebirth, I mean you can certainly believe from one’s own human perspective,unfortunately that isn’t enough, our spirit needs to be supernaturally birthed, by the Holy Spirit, which comes by divine heat revelation ..then you have the faith, to believe and know God in your spirit.

Whose seed penetrates our heart/spirit at rebirth?l..only after spirit rebirth do you have the gift of supernatural faith..to know God and walk in the spirit...that’s why we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God....we see and hear with our spirit eyes and ears.the moment we are birthed supernaturally, we know our Spirit Father.

Flesh gives birth to flesh = human birth.

Spirit gives birth to spirit= Spirit Birth..by divine heart revelation,