Does man have free will to choose salvation?

[electedbyHim]

Really, can you show me scripture that says that?..

Scripture only teaches to types of people.

The elect and the reprobate.

The regenerate and the unregenerate.

Simply put, the save and unsaved.

There is no people in between.

 

[Ritajanice]

Scripture only teaches to types of people.

The elect and the reprobate.

The regenerate and the unregenerate.

Simply put, the save and unsaved.

There is no people in between.

So what are you calling those who say they freely chose to believe in God, that are on this thread, those who weren’t chosen or predestined ?

Or better still, what does the word call them?

 

[electedbyHim]

So what are you calling those who say they freely chose to believe in God, that are on this thread, those who weren’t chosen or predestined ?

Or better still, what does the word call them?

If they are truly regenerate, they are Gods elect.

Nowhere does the Bible teach that man, dead in his sin can choose God.

God chooses whom He will draw to His son Jesus.

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

 

[Ritajanice]

If they are truly regenerate, they are Gods elect.

And how does one know that they are truly regenerated ,..... by whose witness? electedbyHim

Nowhere does the Bible teach that man, dead in his sin can choose God.

I think a few have disagreed with you there on this thread.

God chooses whom He will draw to His son Jesus.

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Absolutely.

 

[electedbyHim]

I think a few have disagreed with you there.

Absolutely.

Many hate the doctrine of Election.

Mans pride blinds him.

They want to believe they had a hand in their own salvation.

The Sovereignty of God is the most hated doctrine of the Bible.

Humans want to be sovereign over their own life.

 

[Ritajanice]

Many hate the doctrine of Election.

Mans pride blinds him.

They want to believe they had a hand in their own salvation.

The Sovereignty of God is the most hated doctrine of the Bible.

Humans want to be sovereign over their own life.

We’re in the will of the Father, bought for a price and who on earth would want to be in their own will.. those who don’t know the Father I guess?

We are 100% His, spirit children. In the world not Of the world.. only a Born Again will see the Kingdom Of God.

 

[brightfame52]

No unregenerate person will ever seek God, the True God that is !

Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


No one, not one single person, seeks God. That is what this passage states explicitly.

 

[electedbyHim]

No unregenerate person will ever seek God, the True God that is !

Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


No one, not one single person, seeks God. That is what this passage states explicitly.

Man seeks god alright, the god of self.

 

[Hidden In Him]

No unregenerate person will ever seek God, the True God that is !

Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


No one, not one single person, seeks God. That is what this passage states explicitly.

Greetings, Brightfame.

I don't usually involve myself in these discussions but noticed your post and thought I would ask: Is not the passage talking about the wicked rather than the just? It's a quotation from Psalm 53 and Psalm 14, which reads in full:

The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God." They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good. 2 God looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. 3 Every one of them has turned aside; They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. 4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge, who eat up My people as they eat bread, and do not call upon God? 5 There they are in great fear where no fear was, for God has scattered the bones of him who encamps against you; You have put them to shame, because God has despised them. 6 Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When God brings back the captivity of His people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.

 

[brightfame52]

Hidden In Him

: Is not the passage talking about the wicked rather than the just? It's a quotation from Psalm 53 and Psalm 14, which reads in full:

Its all men by nature. All of us are born wicked, sinners and ungodly, do you believe that ?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hidden In Him



Its all men by nature. All of us are born wicked, sinners and ungodly, do you believe that ?

Good morning.

Well see, I really only focus on dealing with the scriptures when I see them being brought up or discussed. That's what I enjoy most.

But in context it seems to me that if He is talking about those who "eat up His people," the reference is to those who are not His people. So at least with this verse anyway, I'm not sure the argument holds weight to say the reference here is to all men by nature but rather the wicked.

Blessings, and thanks for the response.
- H

 

[JLB]

No. This refutes your previous point.

By saying “they also” the Spirit through Paul desires for the elect to obtain salvation; something they do not have.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10



1. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly salvation isn’t automatic to the elect.

2. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly the elect refers to something other than elected for salvation.


If they are elected but don’t have salvation then “elected” plainly refers to something other than salvation.


Elect refers to the Jews, who were elected for a purpose not elected for salvation.

The purpose was to be the people through who the Messiah would come.

For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5

 

[brightfame52]

Good morning.

Well see, I really only focus on dealing with the scriptures when I see them being brought up or discussed. That's what I enjoy most.

But in context it seems to me that if He is talking about those who "eat up His people," the reference is to those who are not His people. So at least with this verse anyway, I'm not sure the argument holds weight to say the reference here is to all men by nature but rather the wicked.

Blessings, and thanks for the response.
- H

. All of us are born wicked, sinners and ungodly, do you believe that ?

 

[JLB]

Only the saved can and will believe, the condemned will not and cannot believe, since they are condemned by the law of God.

More of your opinion?


Here is the truth.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Those who believe are saved.

 

[Free]

By saying “they also” the Spirit through Paul desires for the elect to obtain salvation; something they do not have.

Yes, I know.

1. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly salvation isn’t automatic to the elect.

Yes, I know.

2. If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly the elect refers to something other than elected for salvation.

No. Your conclusion doesn’t follow. You’re completely ignoring your first two points.

If they are elected but don’t have salvation then “elected” plainly refers to something other than salvation.

Again, your conclusion doesn’t follow and you’re ignoring your first two points.

Elect refers to the Jews,

Jews and Gentiles.

who were elected for a purpose not elected for salvation.

The purpose was to be the people through who the Messiah would come.

No. 2 Tim. 2:10 is only about the salvation of the elect.

 

[brightfame52]

More of your opinion?


Here is the truth.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Those who believe are saved.

Condemned people cant believe, since they are condemned by the law. Nobody Christ died for is condemned because He satisfied Gods law and justice for them, so they are given faith to believe.

 

[Hidden In Him]

. All of us are born wicked, sinners and ungodly, do you believe that ?

Again, Brightfame. I was hoping to discuss scripture, not personal beliefs.

But as you were. Just thought I would ask.

Blessings in Christ to you and yours,
Hidden

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

So what are you calling those who say they freely chose to believe in God, that are on this thread, those who weren’t chosen or predestined ?

Or better still, what does the word call them?

Why do they say that they freely chose to believe? They don't realize then that God enabled them to believe by the power of the Holy Spirit through Jesus' victory. You can enlighten them with Lydia in Philippi as your example, Act_16:14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Condemned people cant believe, since they are condemned by the law. Nobody Christ died for is condemned because He satisfied Gods law and justice for them, so they are given faith to believe.

What proof do folks have that God gave the faith ?
Do they start to work miracles ?
Do they start to heal the sick ?
Do they suddenly stop committing sin ?

 

[JLB]

No. Your conclusion doesn’t follow. You’re completely ignoring your first two points.

If he desires the elect to also obtain salvation, then plainly the elect refers to something other than elected for salvation.

If the elect don’t have salvation then obviously elect refers to something other than salvation.

Elect plainly refers to election for purpose not election for salvation.


for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls. Romans 9:11


The Jews were called the elect because they were elected to be the people that God chose to bring forth the Messiah through their lineage.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5


That’s why election is to be understood for purpose not for salvation.




JLB