Does man have free will to choose salvation?

[Fastfredy0]

Does man have free will to choose salvation?​

I define "free will" as the ability to do what you desire most at the time.

... so regarding salvation .... we have "free will" ... this leads to the question: what is the cause of our desires?

The first cause of our desires is GOD. The Law of Causality states: a rule of the universe that says every event that happens is the result of a specific cause. Imagine you have a row of dominoes; if you knock the first one over (cause), the rest will fall down in sequence (effect). This rule helps us figure out why things happen and what could happen next.
Application of the Law of Causality: When one who supports the idea of self-determinism is asked “why you did something he has no answer”. He will resort to a non-answer like “because I wanted to”. When asked why he wanted to he responses “because I choice to want to”; when asked why he choice to want to, he responses “because I wanted to choice to want to” … and on and on the circular reason goes. It contradicts the Law of Causality.
You don't pick your sex, your parents or your desires. I.E. Psalm 51:5

If one define "free will" as self-determinism (not influenced by others) the logic dictates that to be impossible. Empirical evidence validates this statement. Google "parent's influence on a person's religious beliefs" (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/09/10/shared-beliefs-between-parents-and-teens/) and you will find that children tend to follow the beliefs of their parents which proves self-determinism is false). (I assume the reader as elementary knowledge of statistics and and probability.)

 

[hawkman]

I wouldn't use the verb "neglect" when speaking of God's actions .... but God per Gen 2:17 God told Adam that he would die. As to the 1,000,000,000,000,000 repercussions, I have no idea what else God told him.

Curse of death , yes . Is that a brazillion ?

His way are not ours ways

I agree .

 

[electedbyHim]

Can I convert for 20 minutes so I can comment in the R.C. thread?

Ha

 

[electedbyHim]

Does man have free will to choose salvation?​

I define "free will" as the ability to do what you desire most at the time.

... so regarding salvation .... we have "free will" ... this leads to the question: what is the cause of our desires?

The first cause of our desires is GOD. The Law of Causality states: a rule of the universe that says every event that happens is the result of a specific cause. Imagine you have a row of dominoes; if you knock the first one over (cause), the rest will fall down in sequence (effect). This rule helps us figure out why things happen and what could happen next.
Application of the Law of Causality: When one who supports the idea of self-determinism is asked “why you did something he has no answer”. He will resort to a non-answer like “because I wanted to”. When asked why he wanted to he responses “because I choice to want to”; when asked why he choice to want to, he responses “because I wanted to choice to want to” … and on and on the circular reason goes. It contradicts the Law of Causality.
You don't pick your sex, your parents or your desires. I.E. Psalm 51:5

If one define "free will" as self-determinism (not influenced by others) the logic dictates that to be impossible. Empirical evidence validates this statement. Google "parent's influence on a person's religious beliefs" (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/09/10/shared-beliefs-between-parents-and-teens/) and you will find that children tend to follow the beliefs of their parents which proves self-determinism is false). (I assume the reader as elementary knowledge of statistics and and probability.)

Excellent

 

[electedbyHim]

No one has answered my questions about being born sinless.

No one has Biblical proof they are born sinless.

No one has refuted the Scriptures I posted about being born in sin.

Crickets!

 

[hawkman]

No one has refuted the Scriptures I posted about being born in sin.

No need to , your answer is in Genesis Chapter 3 . Man decides they are born with a sin nature but God said no such thing in Genesis Chapter 3 .

You said you understood .

 

[electedbyHim]

No need to , your answer is in Genesis Chapter 3 . Man decides they are born with a sin nature but God said no such thing in Genesis Chapter 3 .

You said you understood .

Of course there is a need too.

What do you do with these Scriptures?

Ephesians 2:3 among whom we all also formerly conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak falsehood wander in error from birth.

 

[hawkman]

electedbyHim
Post #56 has a question for you , no answer has been rendered so far from you .
Fastfredy0 said some things but I did not see an answer .

 

[electedbyHim]

electedbyHim
Post #56 has a question for you , no answer has been rendered so far from you .
Fastfredy0 said some things but I did not see an answer .

Your avoiding the questions.

I asked them very early on.

 

[hawkman]

Your avoiding the questions.

I asked them very early on.

You did not agree with my answer . But I saw no answer from you to post #56 . Calvinism has no answer I suppose .

Crickets it is .

 

[Fastfredy0]

Curse of death , yes . Is that a brazillion ?

As death relates to Adam alone, the is 1 effect.
As death relates to Adam's offspring, that is another 6ish billion deaths and counting.
As for Adam's sin causing a sin nature to be passed on to all offspring ... that would be 10 billion times (the # of lies told + # of lustful thoughts + # of murder + ...) ....yeah, getting to a brazillion. *giggle*

 

[electedbyHim]

You did not agree with my answer . But I saw no answer from you to post #56 . Calvinism has no answer I suppose .

Crickets it is .

Typical response from people who do not know.

Again I asked early on is this thread, post #40, you did not answer.

On the other hand you answer many of my questions with a question of your own.

Guess we cannot have a converation on this topic.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Fastfredy0]

No one has answered my questions about being born sinless.

Yep !

 

[electedbyHim]

Yep !

I would also like to know when the started to sin if they were born sinless.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Do you believe God would neglect to tell Adam the curse of sin would now live in him and all his descendants after him ?

@Fastfredy0 said some things but I did not see an answer .

It is not possible to relate all the consequences of Adam's sin to Adam as the consequences are in the trillions and Adam's could not comprehend that much information. God's ways are not our ways so we cannot make reliable assumptions. Is there a point to the question?

 

[Fastfredy0]

I would also like to know when the started to sin if they were born sinless.

Sin is disobedience to God. Genesis implies that Adam and Eve sinned when they ate from the tree of knowledge.
God knew Adam would sin and an all powerful God could have created a man that would not sin as He did with 2/3s of the angels who have never sinned; yet, since they are mutable there is the chance sinless angels could sin but apparently God has destroyed that possibility as He will for us when we are glorified.
(maybe some Muslims too if the Pope is correct)

 

[electedbyHim]

Sin is disobedience to God. Genesis implies that Adam and Eve sinned when they ate from the tree of knowledge.
God knew Adam would sin and an all powerful God could have created a man that would not sin as He did with 2/3s of the angels who have never sinned; yet, since they are mutable there is the chance sinless angels could sin but apparently God has destroyed that possibility as He will for us when we are glorified.
(maybe some Muslims too if the Pope is correct)

So much truth in this comment, especially about the angels.

 

[MisterE]

Eph 1.4 says "he chose us in Christ..." Please note that our being chosen is "in Christ" not "out of" Christ (i.e., before we were saved). Dr. Harry Ironside was asked the question this post asks, and he answered the dispute with just 3 words. Do we have free will, he said "Except you Repent"

 

[hawkman]

It is not possible to relate all the consequences of Adam's sin to Adam

We see God telling Adam the consequences listed in Gen. Ch. 3 . For me and you Fastfredy0 we could probably not relate it to Adam but God would have no trouble , do you doubt that ?

as the consequences are in the trillions and Adam's could not comprehend that much information.

Who are you to suggest what Adam would or would not comprehend ? Did you create Adam from the dust of the earth ?

Is there a point to the question?

Sin nature is never mentioned by God in Chapter 3 of Genesis .

 

[Fastfredy0]

Who are you to suggest what Adam would or would not comprehend ?

I have a knowledge of the capabilities man and can apply said knowledge. Logic dictates that the trillions of consequences of Adam's sin could not all be comprehended by Adam. No one knows trillions of facts, it's not possible. I'm not saying Adam couldn't understand general concepts but Adam is not omniscient and that would be required to know all the consequences of his sin. Only God could know all things that will happen in the future; Adam cannot. Chapter 3 of Genesis relates 50 or so facts/consequences of Adam's sin. There are trillions of consequences. Adam also lacked experiencing said consequences and experience is essential for complete understanding ... like I know women experience pain in child birth but until I experience it I do not have a complete understanding and even if I did experience child birth I would only know my individual experience.

Did you create Adam from the dust of the earth ?

*giggle* nope

Sin nature is never mentioned by God in Chapter 3 of Genesis .

Agreed ... so .... what point are you trying to make by stating this observation? That people don't have a 'sin nature' because we don't read about it in Genesis 3 ?

Sin Nature definition: The sin nature is that aspect in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, we refer to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing. https://www.gotquestions.org/sin-nature.html