Does man have free will to choose salvation?

[Hopeful 2]

All you have is a meme?

How pathetic and immature in discussing the truths of God's word.

It is evident your opinion outweighs God's precious truth.

Grace and peace to you.

Jesus said the truth would make you free of committing sin. (John 8:32-34)
Are you free ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Again, as to some of your Scriptures, man can only "choose" if he is chosen by God.

How can a dead man choose life?

Define Biblical free will.

The spiritually dead are not physically dead.
They chose to commit sin, and they can choose not to commit any more sin.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Alfred Persson



So have you studied all those verses in their proper context and gotten the proper sense of each ?

Yes, of course. Read them for yourself:

The command to choose God implies free will exists to choose, otherwise its a fraud:

1. Deuteronomy 30:19​

“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore, choose life, that you and your offspring may live.”

2. Joshua 24:15

“And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

3. Isaiah 1:18-20

“‘Come now, let us reason together,’ says the Lord: ‘though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be eaten by the sword; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.’”

4. Ezekiel 18:30-32

“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

5. John 7:17

“If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.”

6. Romans 2:14-15

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.”

7. Acts 17:27-28

“That they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are indeed his offspring.’”

8. Revelation 3:20

“Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.”

Therefore, two options exist and in both the opportunity to choose God exists. 1)By previenent grace God enables human free will to be free and choose God. 2)Humans can choose God even without supernatural help.

To think otherwise is to declare these scriptures a fraud, a call to choose when choice is impossible.

 

[electedbyHim]

I did what was appropriate, in perfect response to your non treatment of the texts I cited.

You gave a blanket rejection, so I responded with same.

Here, try again. Answer my argument, don't dismiss it out of hand with prattle:

Several Scriptures contradict the premise your definition relies on.

The command to choose God implies free will exists to choose, otherwise its a fraud:

1. Deuteronomy 30:19​

2. Joshua 24:15

3. Isaiah 1:18-20

4. Ezekiel 18:30-32

5. John 7:17

6. Romans 2:14-15

7. Acts 17:27-28

8. Revelation 3:20


Therefore, two options exist and in both the opportunity to choose God exists. 1)By previenent grace God enables human free will to be free and choose God. 2)Humans can choose God even without supernatural help.

To think otherwise is to declare these scriptures a fraud, a call to choose when choice is impossible.

What is your understanding of election and originial sin?

Jesus said the truth would make you free of committing sin. (John 8:32-34)
Are you free ?

Spew you heretical nonsense elsewhere.

We have been down this path.

But you like to believe you are sinless and are entitled to your unBiblical doctrines.

 

[electedbyHim]

The spiritually dead are not physically dead.
They chose to commit sin, and they can choose not to commit any more sin.

The title of the thread is:

Does man have free will to choose salvation?

And here you are in another thread promoting yourself and that you are sinless.

Please stay on topic.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What is your understanding of election and originial sin?

I elected to serve God instead of sin.
Original sin is a false doctrine of the catholics.

Spew you heretical nonsense elsewhere.
We have been down this path.

If you are not free, how can you believe God has forced you to become a Christian ?

But you like to believe you are sinless and are entitled to your unBiblical doctrines.

As it is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:" (1 John 3:9-10)

God won't force you to repent of sin, but it is a choice you can make.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The title of the thread is:

Does man have free will to choose salvation?

And here you are in another thread promoting yourself and that you are sinless.

Please stay on topic.

Part of what was being offered in the name of Calvin, was that babies are sinners.
That seems to be a stone of the doctrine's foundation.
If that 'stone' dissolves, the rest of it will fall shortly.

 

[electedbyHim]

Part of what was being offered in the name of Calvin, was that babies are sinners.
That seems to be a stone of the doctrine's foundation.
If that 'stone' dissolves, the rest of it will fall shortly.

Have you ever studied Theology proper, soteriology or hamartiology?

Or do you just study the Bible?

 

[Alfred Persson]

What is your understanding of election and originial sin?

I agree with the Eastern Orthodox, ancestral sin is different than original sin. Humanity inherits the consequences of Adam and Eve’s sin, not the guilt or personal responsibility for it.

• According to Eastern Orthodox teaching, Adam and Eve’s disobedience in the Garden of Eden brought corruption, mortality, and a tendency toward sin into human nature. This fallen state affects all of humanity, leading people to suffer spiritual separation from God and an inclination toward sin.

2. Inherited Consequences, Not Guilt​

• The Orthodox tradition does not teach that people are born with the guilt of Adam’s sin. Instead, they inherit a corrupted nature and a world impacted by sin and death.

As God says, we pay for our own sins, not for the sin of others including Adam.

As for Election, I have posts explaining my belief in detail. Never read them? To sum them up, God elected those who loved Him in His Omniscience, when they "awoke" and saw God loving them. They loved Him back.

No one else is predestined. Only these. God made it certain none of them will be lost because of this fallen world.

This doesn't contradict salvation by grace alone. Its not "foreseen faith". These "unfallen lovers of God" only exist in the mind of God. They are NOT the fallen version that came into existence through Adam. God did not elect US, He elected the version of us that was never created. Then by His grace, He extends the effect of that to us "before we did anything good or bad."

 

[electedbyHim]

I agree with the Eastern Orthodox, ancestral sin is different than original sin. Humanity inherits the consequences of Adam and Eve’s sin, not the guilt or personal responsibility for it.

• According to Eastern Orthodox teaching, Adam and Eve’s disobedience in the Garden of Eden brought corruption, mortality, and a tendency toward sin into human nature. This fallen state affects all of humanity, leading people to suffer spiritual separation from God and an inclination toward sin.

2. Inherited Consequences, Not Guilt​

• The Orthodox tradition does not teach that people are born with the guilt of Adam’s sin. Instead, they inherit a corrupted nature and a world impacted by sin and death.

As God says, we pay for our own sins, not for the sin of others including Adam.

As for Election, I have posts explaining my belief in detail. Never read them? To sum them up, God elected those who loved Him in His Omniscience, when they "awoke" and saw God loving them. They loved Him back.

No one else is predestined. Only these. God made it certain none of them will be lost because of this fallen world.

God elected those who loved Him in His Omniscience, when they "awoke" and saw God loving them. They loved Him back.

What Bible verse do you use that says that God elects people because they loved Him?

 

[Alfred Persson]

What Bible verse do you use that says that God elects people because they loved Him?

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (Rom. 8:28 NKJ)

 

[electedbyHim]

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (Rom. 8:28 NKJ)

It does say all things work together for good to those who love God, it does not say, God elected people because they love Him.

The following verses say nothing about God electing people who love Him.

Romans 8:29 Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers;
Romans 8:30 and those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified.


That would contradict these verses.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love,
Ephesians 1:5 by predestining us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Are you suggesting that the Sovereign God and Lord Jesus Christ chose to elect Alfred Persson to salvation before the foundations of the world because He knew you would love Him?

 

[Alfred Persson]

It does say all things work together for good to those who love God, it does not say, God elected people because they love Him.

The following verses say nothing about God electing people who love Him.

Romans 8:29 Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers;
Romans 8:30 and those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified.


That would contradict these verses.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love,
Ephesians 1:5 by predestining us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Are you suggesting that the Sovereign God and Lord Jesus Christ chose to elect Alfred Persson to salvation before the foundations of the world because He knew you would love Him?

Its an inference. When did they love God? Before God caused all things to work together for their good, or before the foundation of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

Man has the command to be born again, (John 3:7),

False thats not an imperative. In fact its in the passive voice.

 

[brightfame52]

And the reborn abide in Him.
BTW, Jesus was the Word/man, if you want to look at it like Jesus had some unfair advantage to refuse temptations.
We now have what Jesus had !

Jesus is God/Man keep that in mind

 

[brightfame52]

Can you tell me what sin you were guilty of at your birth ?

I already said, pay attention

 

[brightfame52]

Your doctrine condemns the innocent.

False statement

 

[brightfame52]

Alfred Persson

Yes, of course

Okay please take the time to explain each one.

 

[electedbyHim]

Its an inference. When did they love God? Before God caused all things to work together for their good, or before the foundation of the world.

When did they love God?

1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.

No way could any unregenerate love God before Holy Spirit regenerated them, that goes against Scripture.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy because of His great love with which He loved us,
Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Fact is, the unregenerate are at enmity with God, they hate Him.

Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Romans 8:8 and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.

 

[Alfred Persson]

When did they love God?

1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.

No way could any unregenerate love God before Holy Spirit regenerated them, that goes against Scripture.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy because of His great love with which He loved us,
Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Fact is, the unregenerate are at enmity with God, they hate Him.

Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Romans 8:8 and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.

You spend zero effort at understanding what I say. I explained my view in detail. There is little point in addressing arguments that aren't relevant to my position:

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He...

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