According to your belief, does someone first have to accept Christ to be granted forgiveness and be saved? But how can someone accept Christ if they haven't been exposed to Christ, which those that I mentioned in my prior post, for reasons outside of their control, will never be able to? Forgiveness isn't a doctrine that we have to learn but can only be possible if first been given by God solely as a gift - that is where preselection, mercy and grace enters in. According to freewill however, the receiving of forgiveness isn't first and isn't how freewill works - according to freewill, it is received as a result of a person's choice not before the person's choice, is it not? Which means that to be able to choose, they'd first have to be able to perceive, which many cannot for a multitude of reasons. So, the question remains: what happens to those who cannot perceive?
Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
According to your belief, does someone first have to accept Christ to be granted forgiveness and be saved? But how can someone accept Christ if they haven't been exposed to Christ, which those that I mentioned in my prior post, for reasons outside of their control, will never be able to? Forgiveness isn't a doctrine that we have to learn but can only be possible if first been given by God solely as a gift - that is where preselection, mercy and grace enters in. According to freewill however, the receiving of forgiveness isn't first and isn't how freewill works - according to freewill, it is received as a result of a person's choice not before the person's choice, is it not? Which means that to be able to choose, they'd first have to be able to perceive, which many cannot for a multitude of reasons. So, the question remains: what happens to those who cannot perceive?
How would they know to "want it" unless having been exposed to it? How can someone want something they
don't know exists?
Look, man sinned in Adam and became corrupted from his original righteousness, now being dead in sin, he needs to be born again in order to seek God.
The way it worked in the Bible is the truth / gospel/ Word was preached and the Holy Spirit brought conviction on the listeners. That’s his job, to convict the world of sin. The people either respond or in pride refuse. Free will. God is calling and they can repent or refuse. If they repented, they were granted forgiveness. That’s the “born again” experience. No one in the Bible “accepts” Jesus. That’s not there. The question is more if Jesus “accepts” us.
He hides from believers too if they consider themselves “wise and intelligent.” That’s why so many “don’t understand God.” He’s hiding from them, at least to a great degree.
So you know you are incorrect.
I don’t have any.
Who, for example? Name some names.
You forget the sin you are currently engaging in.
They see the sin being committed.
Let’s get back to OP.
Yes, the Greek word we have translated "Church" is Ekklesia. That was not some new word Jesus invented. It was already there in the Greek Old Testament translating the Hebrew word "qahal." It is used over 100 times in the OT.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community (qahal) of Israel must slaughter them at twilight.
You seem to be saying two different things at the same time in the above. You said that it is up to the person to repent, but then said it is a question of whether Jesus will accept us. Those points are mutually exclusive: it must be one or the other but not both. If God is calling as you say, then He can't be calling those who are unable to hear His call,
so not all can repent, and the question remains: based upon your belief (not mine) what happens to those who can't hear, can't choose, and can't repent?
Now, as you know, I fundamentally and vehemently disagree with your underlying assumptions regarding how salvation transpires. With one way (my way) it is only dependent upon God's choice, His divine prerogative, His good pleasure and His power to bring His will to fruition unto those who in no wise deserve it; the other way (your way)it is dependent upon dumb luck to be in an environment where the gospel is preached and of having the intelligence to comprehend what one is heard should they even be able to hear it - basically leaving salvation up to random chance. What could be more unfair than that? Nevertheless, with selection, God also gives spiritual ears to hear things spiritual. Without spiritual ears, they will never be able to comprehend the gospel no matter how many times they hear it with physical ears.
Remember, Adam and Eve fell into sin. That changed everything.
Eph_2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature (physis) children of wrath, just as the others.
Example of the word:
Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature (physis);
Scripture says it is desperately wicked Jer 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Yeah, Stephen called that assembly the church in the wilderness Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
And wasnt Christ that Rock in the wilderness with them 1 Cor 10:3-5
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Folks can want forgiveness for their sins without knowing One can forgive them.
Myself, a man unknowledgeable of the real church, just wanted to quit hurting myself and others with my behaviors.
God knows the hearts of men, and will provide for their deliverance.
Those you call "wise and intelligent" God calls wicked, if they are wicked.
There are plenty of other wise and intelligent folks who God keeps revealing things to.
The real believers are not wicked.
Ah, you don’t know the Bible. God calls them “wise and intelligent,” not me.
“At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.”
“These things” are how the Kingdom of God operates or the ways of God.
Besides the Ethiopian, I, the folks at Philippi are other good examples.
Then there is Matt 5:6 too..."Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled."
Jesus was right.
That does not say they just "wanted to and it will be brought to them" as you describe. Hunger or thirst is not merely "wanting to." And the truth is Jesus said WE need to knock, WE need to seek, WE need to ask. Nothing will be brought to us because we merely "want it."
If they are wicked, they are wicked.
Who were the wise and learned Jesus referred to?
Wicked men of Chorazin and Capernaum. (Matt 11:21-23)
I guess you have a different definition of "want" than I do.
There is nothing "merely" about one's desire for righteousness.
“At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.”
He was talking to God about believers describing WHO God reveals the matters of the kingdom. It is a given that he does not reveal matters of the Kingdom of God to unbelievers.
Who did God explain His ways to on record? Moses, the meekest man on earth.
Now let us test this in real life. Do all Christians understand God? Is God revealing these things to all believers? Do believers ever honestly say they do not understand God? Do some of them offer explanations that are obviously made up in their own heads? Doesn't this show that God hides Himself from some? What is the other explanation? Just notice how many times believers say they don't understand God and ask yourself why.