roger
What I meant in long form was that
the law of sin and death (which I also refer to as the law of law) happened at the eating,
Actually the Law existed prior to the eating, so when they ate they transgressed the law God had given them
which they, and all mankind, were then under its authority. All who are under the law of sin and death (which all were before becoming saved) are guilty before God just by the fact they're under it (by the action of Adam and Eve), just as those under the law of the Spirit of life are sinless solely because they're under it.
I can agree with this, but the elect I believe were never legally guilty before God, They became experientially guilty because they lost their innocence and became transgressors and in need of restoration, and dead to God. Remember for them Christ had already stood as their surety before the foundation of the world Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
So the condemnation of the elect at the sin of Adam their Natural head, was always charged to Christ, their condemnation and their guilt legally was His and God always looked to Him to satisfy their debt to His Law and Justice.
All committed sin is an outgrowth and result of that law. In a way (and I want to be very careful of how I state this), it, in its way, manifests the same pattern as those who are under grace in its way; that is, depending upon the law one is under (either the law Spirit of life in Christ Jesus or the law of sin and death), fruit appropriate to, and because of, that particular law, is manifested by those under it. For example, just as those whom God has placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and therefore bring forth and manifest the good fruit of the Spirit, so too do those under the law of sin and death bring forth sin from Satan as its fruit - usually as works
I can see this. We either walk according to the flesh, which is death, or according to the Spirit which is life and peace, Even the most sincere and honest and religious, if theu havent been born anew, are only bringing forth fruit unto death Rom 7:5-6
5 For
when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Remember Paul was speaking about his past life before conversion, he was a zealous religious man, even though himself blameless before the Law Phil 3
Now he says that was just the flesh, bringing forth fruit unto death,
Good fruit is walking according to the Faith of Jesus Christ, walking by Faith in what He has done to make us righteousness before God, having put away our sins, and imputing His Perfect Law keeping righteousness upon us.
And yes, the opposite of walking by Faith in Christ, is nothing but works, some how and some way they condition salvation on what man does !
Going back to the nakedness in the garden, their nakedness wasn't their sin, however, their sin was in their believing they could negate their nakedness through their work (or actions). That belief had been manifested to them by the law they were under: the law of sin and death.
I believe their sin was in their disobedience to Gods stated Law to them Rom 5:19
19 For
as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Now their attempt to hide their nakedness to me shows how we are naturally and attempt to make it by our own righteousness, for as it is written Prov 14:12
There is a
way which
seemeth
right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
We naturally try to hide our sinfulness !
Now, do I believe that I have it all down exactly perfectly? Nope, but I think that if I don't, that I'm on the right track.
To get on the right track we will be on the wrong track quite often, as long as the foundation is right, there is hope we will be lead into the truth. Christ must be that foundation, and to have that right is the gift of God.
