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Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

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electedbyhim said:
I know how God see me and He does not look on my sin. In His eyes I am righteous, in my eyes I am not.

But from a human perspective it is always there. And continually nagging at me.

Romans 7:14-25 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, having been sold into bondage under sin. For what I am working out, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want, I agree with the Law, that it is good. So now, no longer am I the one working it out, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the working out of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one working it out, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that in me evil is present—in me who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in my members, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Click to expand...
Paul was surely difficult to understand even back then.
We can stop being totally fleshly and keep our sinful nature under control.

John Calvin spoke a lot about how depraved we are,
How the reprobate are without excuse (except of course, but for the fact the HE made them that way).

He says man is ignorant, prideful and very stubborn.
He says that most are so degenerate that in no part of the world can genuine godliness be found.

Great words to love by...

source: John Calvin's Institutes
Book 1, Chapter 3 and 4
Various paragraphs
 
electedbyhim said:
I am not certain why anyone would question anybody's salvation. On the flip side, I would question anybody who claims to be saved and lives in continuous sin.

It does not bother me so no feeling involved.

Yes, looking in the mirror. I believe it to be sin to be consumed with my own sin if that makes any sense at all. We all have sin in our lives, and if we say we do not then we are a liar.

Grace and peace to you.
Click to expand...
This comes to mind:

1 John 4:8
8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

I'm beginning to realize how unloving the reformed are - in general, of course.
 
electedbyhim said:
I am not certain why anyone would question anybody's salvation. On the flip side, I would question anybody who claims to be saved and lives in continuous sin.

It does not bother me so no feeling involved.

Yes, looking in the mirror. I believe it to be sin to be consumed with my own sin if that makes any sense at all. We all have sin in our lives, and if we say we do not then we are a liar.

Grace and peace to you.
Click to expand...
If you don't want to think and be consumed with your sin - which is correct -
(Phil 4:8) then perhaps you could stop thinking of yourself as a sinner and instead as a child of God.

Being a SINNER
is different than committing a sin.
 
wondering said:
Paul was surely difficult to understand even back then.
We can stop being totally fleshly and keep our sinful nature under control.

John Calvin spoke a lot about how depraved we are,
How the reprobate are without excuse (except of course, but for the fact the HE made them that way).

He says man is ignorant, prideful and very stubborn.
He says that most are so degenerate that in no part of the world can genuine godliness be found.

Great words to love by...

source: John Calvin's Institutes
Book 1, Chapter 3 and 4
Various paragraphs
Click to expand...
Truth can be unloving in the eyes of many people.

Consider theses verses...

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Rom 3:10-18 as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME WORTHLESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.” “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN TOMB, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,” “THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”; “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”; “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.” “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”
 
electedbyhim said:
Your opinion is not what the Bible teaches.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak falsehood wander in error from birth.



Wow!

How did you come to that conclusion?

It says nothing like that in those verses, verse 32 is talking about the self-righteous.

Luke 5:30-32 And the Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick. “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”
Click to expand...
Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

A baby has no knowledge of good or evil and can not possibly sin until they come into the knowledge of what sin is.

Was Jesus born a sinner, I think not, even though He was fully man born of a woman who was righteous in the eyes of God. Do you think God would have chosen a sinner to birth Jesus!
 
wondering said:
If you don't want to think and be consumed with your sin - which is correct -
(Phil 4:8) then perhaps you could stop thinking of yourself as a sinner and instead as a child of God.

Being a SINNER
is different than committing a sin.
Click to expand...
This is correct.

I am quite challenged.
 
electedbyhim said:
Truth can be unloving in the eyes of many people.

Consider theses verses...

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Rom 3:10-18 as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME WORTHLESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.” “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN TOMB, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,” “THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”; “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”; “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.” “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”
Click to expand...
Jesus is God.
He can be justly angry with the wicked.
We are told by Him, instead, to love even our enemies.
We are not Jesus.

As to Romans 3:10-18, Paul is quoting the OT.
Everyone has sinned. He's speaking exactly of what I'm speaking about right now.
But let's be careful. It states that there is none that seeks for God...
I can post 15 verses that state that God wants man to seek Him.
This can be done...but after dinner.
Yes, dinner.

And I had decided not to converse with reformed believers anymore-
I always end up being very disappointed with their reaction.
(do I seem like such a mean person?).
 
for_his_glory said:
Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

A baby has no knowledge of good or evil and can not possibly sin until they come into the knowledge of what sin is.

Was Jesus born a sinner, I think not, even though He was fully man born of a woman who was righteous in the eyes of God. Do you think God would have chosen a sinner to birth Jesus!
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting Mary was without sin?
 
for_his_glory said:
I'm in Church everyday within the fellowship I have with God through my relationship with Christ Jesus allowing the Holy Spirit teach me and also works through those who have more Spiritual knowledge than I have to help teach me. The body of Christ is not four walls with a name attached to the front door as even Pastors disagree with each other. Jesus is not returning just for Calvinist, but all that are His own by the Spiritual rebirth from above and have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Many do not seek God for what He has already gave to the Prophets and Apostles to write and teach, but rather seek after what a man declares to be truth.
Click to expand...
Some remain in rebellion to teaching on the Church.They refuse to submit and obey Hebrews 13:7,17,do not obey the more than 30 one anothering commands,do not take the Lord's supper as directed.
Spirit baptized believers are placed in the body as taught in 1 cor.12.
Calvinist believers obey God in all such matters.
 
wondering said:
Jesus is God.
He can be justly angry with the wicked.
We are told by Him, instead, to love even our enemies.
We are not Jesus.

As to Romans 3:10-18, Paul is quoting the OT.
Everyone has sinned. He's speaking exactly of what I'm speaking about right now.
But let's be careful. It states that there is none that seeks for God...
I can post 15 verses that state that God wants man to seek Him.
This can be done...but after dinner.
Yes, dinner.

And I had decided not to converse with reformed believers anymore-
I always end up being very disappointed with their reaction.
(do I seem like such a mean person?).
Click to expand...
You missed my point, now worries.

Please do not waste your time posting the Scriptures. I have been of the mind of what you believe. But the Lord opened my eyes to His truth in Soteriology. I cannot go backwards in doctrine.

I have been down this path more times then I would like to admit and it will not get us anywhere.

Again, I have believed as you do at one point since I have been saved.

Mangia Mangia
 
electedbyhim said:
Are you judging my salvation or yours?

Your right and everyone is wrong.

When presented verses, they are wrong.

I just have to laugh.

Grace and peace to you.
Click to expand...
He has showed himself hostile and judgmental towards the Cals .
He likes to speak of love, but has a strange idea that declaring a Cals heretics is peachy keen.
 
electedbyhim said:
Ha, low self-esteem. That is great.

I can relate with Paul, chief of sinners, O wretched man that I am. Even David understood what a filthy rotten sinner he was.

Because I fully understand the sinfulness of my person means I have low self-esteem.

This is the problem in the church, lets build everyone's self-esteem up, lets tell them how great they are and lets never have any negativity in our lives.

I should start watching Joel Osteen.
Click to expand...
If you have sin in your life and continue in that sin then you are not dead to sin.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
 
for_his_glory said:
If you have sin in your life and continue in that sin then you are not dead to sin.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Click to expand...
Do you have sin in your life?
 
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