Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[sagoksok]

Hi Sagoksok,
From Northern Europe?

Two comments:
1. Regarding the hardening of the hear of Pharaoh...
Did he harden his own heart or did God harden his heart?

Exodus 8:32
32But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.
Exodus 9:12
12And the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.
This would be in agreement with

Romans 1:24
24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

In other words, once God sees that we will pay no attention to Him, He leaves us to our own destruction, or, hardening of the heart.

Just want to say that I believe the reformed faith leaves many conflicts that need to be worked out.
Calvin gave over to mystery what he couldn't understand.
The reason he, and others, cannot understand very well is because God has no mysteries as to the salvation of mankind.. It's only a mystery in the reformed faith.

Romance 9 not Romans 1
Why they call themselves reformed? Do they love complexity?
Do you think we pay attention right now to Him?

 

[sagoksok]

sagoksok

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

The name sounds so Northern Europe...

KSA = Kingdom of South Antartica.

Name Meaning : Sagoksok derive from Septuagint.

I'm having fun reading this thread so you do also?

 

[GodsGrace]

KSA = Kingdom of South Antartica.

Name Meaning : Sagoksok derive from Septuagint.

I'm having fun reading this thread so you do also?

South Antarctica?
I have no idea how life is there.
Maybe you could weave some culture into your posts somehow?

 

[GodsGrace]

Romance 9 not Romans 1
Why they call themselves reformed? Do they love complexity?
Do you think we pay attention right now to Him?

Hmmm.
Not sure what you mean.
I meant Romans 1.
Could you explain?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The nearest answer of your question it think on Exodus 9 and Romance 9

Exo 9:12 But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

* Other than this I label it as a Mystery even John Calvin could not answer further than those above mention verses.

wondering answered this quite well but I thank you for taking the time to respond. It is a problem for your theology although not for other views. But it’s good to hear what you think.

To bring it back to the OP, I hope you don’t think that just because God strengthened Pharaoh’s choice now and again in order to show that world (other nations heard about this) that God therefore hardens people’s hearts so they cannot seek Him or believe.

 

[atpollard]

When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !

Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12

Cannot is actually not the same as does not.

God asks nothing DIFFICULT for men (it is, indeed a “light” burden), on the other hand, what God asks is contrary to the core of our fallen nature (foolishness and undesirable to sinners that would rather hide from God than run to God).

 

[atpollard]

To bring it back to the OP, I hope you don’t think that just because God strengthened Pharaoh’s choice now and again in order to show that world (other nations heard about this) that God therefore hardens people’s hearts so they cannot seek Him or believe.

… like He does in John 6 and John 10 and Romans 1 (and Romans 9 affirms God has the RIGHT to do).

 

[brightfame52]

Cannot is actually not the same as does not.

God asks nothing DIFFICULT for men (it is, indeed a “light” burden), on the other hand, what God asks is contrary to the core of our fallen nature (foolishness and undesirable to sinners that would rather hide from God than run to God).

Yes it is the same, the will not come is symptoms of inability to come. Just like Jesus said of some Jn 5:40 they will not come because they can't come unless it's been given to them In 6:44,65

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it is the same, the will not come is symptoms of inability to come. Just like Jesus said of some Jn 5:40 they will not come because they can't come unless it's been given to them In 6:44,65

Jesus said in verse 45 unless the father draws.
The Father AND Jesus draw everyone.
John 12:32


And make up your mind....
Does DRAW mean ATTRACT or DRAG?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it is the same, the will not come is symptoms of inability to come. Just like Jesus said of some Jn 5:40 they will not come because they can't come unless it's been given to them In 6:44,65

How many times have I posted verses in the OT and NT that state God loves those THAT SEEK HIM.

Don't you even believe scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it is the same, the will not come is symptoms of inability to come. Just like Jesus said of some Jn 5:40 they will not come because they can't come unless it's been given to them In 6:44,65

Cannot is different from Does Not.

One denotes capability.
One denotes unwillingness.

 

[GodsGrace]

… like He does in John 6 and John 10 and Romans 1 (and Romans 9 affirms God has the RIGHT to do).

Where does God harden hearts in John 6 and 10?

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus said in verse 45 unless the father draws.
The Father AND Jesus draw everyone.
John 12:32


And make up your mind....
Does DRAW mean ATTRACT or DRAG?

The drawn are all the saved. The lost aren't drawn and unfortunately they can't come to Christ

 

[brightfame52]

How many times have I posted verses in the OT and NT that state God loves those THAT SEEK HIM.

Don't you even believe scripture?

I don't know what you talking about

 

[brightfame52]

Cannot is different from Does Not.

One denotes capability.
One denotes unwillingness.

No they're the same in this Spiritual matter, the unwillingness comes from the inability.

 

[atpollard]

Where does God harden hearts in John 6 and 10?

Exact phrase? ... It doesn't say that.
Same effect? ... read the context and see those that DO NOT COME and WHY.

• "not my sheep"
• "father gives"
• "quit complaining"
• "one of you is ..."

Just read those TWO CHAPTERS (John 6 and John 10) from start to finish. There is no point in my explaining it to you ... you will find it for yourself or you will not (it ain't a secret).

 

[atpollard]

No they're the same in this Spiritual matter, the unwillingness comes from the inability.

Then God is the one that damns people and the criticism raised against God in Romans is valid ... "Why does he still find fault?" [Romans 9:19]

YOU are advocating that God demands what MAN is incapable of doing, and God then punishes people for not doing the impossible. Your argument appears to be an attack on the innate "goodness" of God. Perhaps you would care to expand your explanation ...

I am genuinely listening.

 

[brightfame52]

Then God is the one that damns people and the criticism raised against God in Romans is valid ... "Why does he still find fault?" [Romans 9:19]

YOU are advocating that God demands what MAN is incapable of doing, and God then punishes people for not doing the impossible. Your argument appears to be an attack on the innate "goodness" of God. Perhaps you would care to expand your explanation ...

I am genuinely listening.

God damns men for their sins and justly so

 

[GodsGrace]

God damns men for their sins and justly so

If God were just, He'd condemn all men, because all men have sinned.

 

[brightfame52]

If God were just, He'd condemn all men, because all men have sinned.

God is merciful to some and not all and He is Just!