ThinkerMan said:
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
So when are we gonna get back to the topic. Christianity and science go hand in hand. I believe God reveals His wonders to us through science.
Okay Brutus, a question along those lines.
You obviously believe in miracles. By miracles I mean that the known physical laws of the universe (that I would assume you and I agree with, such as gravity, chemistry, etc) are suspended or changed by the power of god.
Examples would be the sun pausing in the sky to let the Isrealites finish a battle, turning water into wine, etc.
Why is it that none of these same types of miracles are no longer witnesseed? Those miracles occured before the rules governing those ideas where know. In the case of the sun pausing, orbital mechanices, heliocentricity, etc were not know. The chemical makeup of wine vs water was not know.
These "big picture" miracles don't occur anymore.
What is claimed are mostly healing miracles. We certainly don't understand all the rules and mechanics of the human body, thus there is a "gap" to insert God into. When a "miracle" occurs of someone surviving an accident, we can't understand or calculate every probability or circumstance of the event. Thus, there is a "gap" to insert God into.
So why no big miracles? Why only little piddly things that science is capable of understanding if not for the limited information and immaturity of our technologies?
Why doesn't God not make himself known? Simply freezing the sun for a few hours would work wonders. He used to do this stuff ALL the time, even after Jesus dies as evidenced in Acts.
It still seems to me to be a "god of the gaps" argument when in comes to miracles. The more science explains, the fewer the places that miracles are claimed to occur.
That is a good question. Even though you didn't ask me I will answer anyway.
And I will tie the answer in with how Christianity and science go hand in hand.
Not all Christians will agree with me on this.
Understand that it took 40 men over 1600 years to write the bible and that most of the time miracles did not take place. Most people during bible times did not witness a single miracle in their lifetimes.
The Hebrews coming out of Egypt saw more miracles than any people in bible history and yet it did not increase their faith in God.
For forty years these people were unique in the fact that God led them by the hand and fed them angel's food from heaven, performed many supernatural feats for them and still they were a hard hearted people.
Miracles were far and few between that time and the return of Christ.
Jesus for over three years performed miracle after miracle and still the Jews refused to believe in Him.
The purpose of miracles for the apostles was to confirm that they were authorized by Jesus to reveal the mystery of His will and to found the church.
Jesus appeared to the 11 apostles after His resurrection and gave them miraculous powers to confirm the word. That is the New Testament.
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and
confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
The other writers of the New Testament wrote also but they were under the authority of the apostles.
You may be wondering where I am going with this but be patient. :D
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation
of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Once the word was completed the need for miracles and sign gifts ceased.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
Believers are supposed to be walking by faith not by sight.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the
evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:6 But
without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
True believers believe and have their faith by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
I am not saying that God cannot or does not do miracles today. I believe He does but most Christians will never see a miracle nor should they seek one.
I believe the bible because it makes perfect sense and is the most unique compilation of books ever put together. The bible contains an incredible amount of writing which confirms scientific evidence which I will demonstrate in another post.
In His service,
Robert
