Does the human soul consciously exist following death

[John the Baptist]

Re: --General talk??--

oscar3
123 Christian Regular

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 298
Location: San Jose
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:15 am Post subject:

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Jay T wrote:

Since the Bible said it, I believe it, yes.

Oscar3 wrote: Jat T
While I am no expert on this stuff you are talking about I do know a hypocrite when I see one..

When you joined this forum you agreed with the foollowing statements, and this is only a small part of the statement of faith. While I believe that seeing these other guys like drew, gubox, cp, sput are also breaking this very rule, they are here as outsiders causing trouble and keeping the real Christians from posting. Most people don't like to argue and everything that they do turns into an argument against what most people believe.

You on the other hand are a moderator. As a moderator you are a part of the leader ship here on this board, as the statement of belief says.

By being a leader, you are supposed to be above reproach. You talk about a HOLY GOD, in your post , yet you are commiting the sin of lying to us by agreeing that you believe that hell is an eternal place of torment forever and then with your other face you say it is not.

******
John here: Logan, Judy, Vic,
seeing that this person has not only documented a 'libelous' personal attack, & that even openly against one of your 'mods' .. as in the breaking of your site rules. He has also broken the 'law of Caesar'.

along without killing people! Romans 1:28-32.

For me to stay around here, (who cares :wink: ) I need this stuff stopped! And if you agree that he is right about your 'Church Board requirements', then, I being a Christian, will abide by my personal convictions.

And seeing that this is being done here openly, I would like a open printed answer. J/t/B/

*******
John here: I stand by my post of requesting an answer to it, either (1 Peter 3:15-16 from Logan, Judy or Vic. Or if you decide to ride this one out, I will understand that to mean support for these Born Again Christian ones.

 

[Jay T]

Re: --General talk??--

The doctrine of man's consciousness in death, especially the belief that spirits of the dead return to minister to the living, has prepared the way for modern spiritualism.

If the dead are admitted to the presence of God and holy angels, and privileged with knowledge far exceeding what they before possessed, why should they not return to the earth to enlighten and instruct the living?

If, as taught by popular theologians, spirits of the dead are hovering about their friends on earth, why should they not be permitted to communicate with them, to warn them against evil, or to comfort them in sorrow? How can those who believe in man's consciousness in death reject what comes to them as divine light communicated by glorified spirits?

Here is a channel regarded as sacred, through which Satan works for the accomplishment of his purposes. The fallen angels who do his bidding appear as messengers from the spirit world.

While professing to bring the living into communication with the dead, the prince of evil exercises his bewitching influence upon their minds.

He has power to bring before men the appearance of their departed friends. The counterfeit is perfect; the familiar look, the words, the tone, are reproduced with marvelous distinctness.

Many are comforted with the assurance that their loved ones are enjoying the bliss of heaven, and without suspicion of danger, they give ear "to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."

Satan has long been preparing for his final effort to deceive the world. The foundation of his work was laid by the assurance given to Eve in Eden: "Ye shall not surely die." (conscienceness in death ?)

"In the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:4, 5. Little by little he has prepared the way for his masterpiece of deception in the development of spiritualism.

He has not yet reached the full accomplishment of his designs; but it will be reached in the last remnant of time. Says the prophet: "I saw three unclean spirits like frogs; . . . they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." Revelation 16:13, 14.

Except those who are kept by the power of God, through faith in His word, the whole world will be swept into the ranks of this delusion.

The people are fast being lulled to a fatal security, to be awakened only by the outpouring of the wrath of God.

 

[TanNinety]

4 - No Trolling:

You will not post anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. Don't make inflammatory remarks just to get a response. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site).

5 - Respect each other's opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.

6 - No Bashing of other members. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

for a mod on this forum, you are very full of hate, and act VERY disrespectful.

''Peace'' What a Hoot
This coming from you is a compliment. Thank you!

You are right. I do ''hate'' when people purposely teach false doctrine, when people like this priest will hold peoples hands as he escorts them to hell, I hate when people like this priest fellow who are supposed to be an example of someone who is above reproach and instead has the doors open and welcomes sin instead of the sinner.. yes I get mad...
I hate when people Use Jesus name in vain or put words in his mouth. If you think I was harsh, you have not seen anything yet....

Goodness,
Well, I could only speak for myself here, but if I were to violate or speak against any of the TOS because of my beliefs I would definitely give up my Mod position.

Seems like jg, based on your beliefs(let them be right or wrong) you have just disrespected and bashed a fellow member in another thread and hence violated the TOS highlighted above and took that as a compliment. Still want to be a man of your word and goodness graciously give up your Mod position? :roll:

 

[Oscar3]

Tan
you are as smart as a rock in my opinion.
I went back and read that part of the thread where you took jg out of context in the same way you take the verses in the bible out of context.
He from what I could see, was pointing out the false teacher and even called for him to be banned. He was harsh, yes but speaking the truth. Infact if you keep reading ''another mod'' AMENED him for standing up to that false teacher, that priest who welcomes the sin of homosexuality along with the murder of children, as by his own admisions is a ''liberal christian''
I am guessing just like you. As for Jay T he is deciieving the forum members by agreeing he blieves in eternal torment ''hell'' and then preaching annihalation. There is definatly a double standard here and like jtb said we are waiting for an answer from the admins. I suspect I will be banned, but if I be banned for speaking the truth , then so be it. This will be on their concience not mine.
As for you tan, well I can only say and reading through some of your post, its easy to see how people don't have any respect for you.

Have a nice day.

 

[TanNinety]

Tan
you are as smart as a rock in my opinion.

And I agree with you when you said you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. That kind of explains a lot. Should I also add that your existence is an anti-thesis for evolution? You are smart vegetable to figure out using a computer.

He from what I could see, was pointing out the false teacher and even called for him to be banned. He was harsh, yes but speaking the truth.

Lets look at the TOS.
5 - Respect each other's opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.
The above says no matter what you believe you have to respect each other’s opinions even if you don’t agree with other’s opinions let them be the truth or falsehood.

6 - No Bashing of other members. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.
Nothing wrong in preaching the truth as long as you don’t violate the above TOS #6.

As for Jay T he is deciieving the forum members by agreeing he blieves in eternal torment ''hell'' and then preaching annihilation

Your accusations come as dumb as you admit you are. Jay T would be deceiving if he believed annihilation yet pretend to AMEN “eternal tormentâ€Â. The way he openly proclaims his belief with scripture is point enough to say that he is not a bit deceiving.

There is definatly a double standard here and like jtb said we are waiting for an answer from the admins. I suspect I will be banned, but if I be banned for speaking the truth , then so be it.

Nah, you wont be banned for truth, but there are several other reasons that you definitely deserve to be banned.

As for you tan, well I can only say and reading through some of your post, its easy to see how people don't have any respect for you.

Dude, for the past few days I have heavily dosed up on sarcasm, ad hominem, questioning the salvation of a person. I have learnt this from the best traditional posters on these forums. And, I don’t need your respect, your stupidity is entertaining enough.

So far how do you like the ad hominem. Not much fun when it is dished out back to you is it? :-D

 

[jgredline]

Oscar3 and TanNinety
Check your PM's
thanks jg

 

[TanNinety]

Thank you for the warning jg. It was sincerely well deserved and was well about time.

For the past few days I was taking the general fundy-traditionalist's approach to the debates on the forum. You know, the usual ad hominem, sarcasm, no true scotsman logical fallacy, red herring and border line calling someone the child of the devil. It was fun while it lasted. :

But don't worry, I am going to my peaceful ways.

 

[jgredline]

Thank you for the warning jg. It was sincerely well deserved and was well about time.

For the past few days I was taking the general fundy-traditionalist's approach to the debates on the forum. You know, the usual ad hominem, sarcasm, no true scotsman logical fallacy, red herring and border line calling someone the child of the devil. It was fun while it lasted. :

But don't worry, I am going to my peaceful ways.

Tan
I thank you. It was a very difficult thing for me to do. I hope Oscar feels the same way as you.

 

[Jay T]

Let me set the record straight as to what I believe regarding Hell, as some have claimed I am contradictory.

I do not believe in eternal torment in the fires of hell, because the Bible NEVER teaches such a thing as that !
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Since God set Sodom & Gomorrha as an 'example', then I must investigate closely, that example, does that make sense ?

Now, I'm going to revert to common logic......
Have you ever looked at what fire does to something ?
It destroyes whatever it burns up....as in forever, burned up.

Also...a fire will burn forever ...IF...if has something to continue burning, as in burnable material.
ONLY, when a fire has nothing left to burn, will a fire go out !
Does that make sense ?

So.....in the case of hellfire......to say that the fires of hell would burn forever, means that God would have to continue to place burnable material on it, to keep it going and going and going.

WHICH makes God, the intrument of endless torture....AND, that would be a GOD OF LOVE....and MERCY ....and JUSTICE ?!?

I REJECT that theory !

I beleive that God will only punish a person, for those sins committed, and no more.
And, after the person is punished for those sins, then....that person will die an eternal death from which there never will be a resurrection from, a death that is eternal.

The example of Jesus Christ shows the end result of sin....total seperation from God !
Jesus bore the sins of the world....yours and mine.

WHY do you think Jesus said: "My, God, My God, why has thou forsaken me"

BECAUSE of this BIble verse......
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.

SIN....any wilful sin separates a person, from God !

Jesus wilfully took sin upon Himself, knowing the results.

BUT, since Christ committed no sin HIMSELF......eternal death, could not hold Him in the grave.

 

[jgredline]

Matt 25 :31-46
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You? 40 And the King will answer and say to them, Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (αἰώνιος )fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.
44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You? 45 Then He will answer them, saying, Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. 46 And these will go away into everlasting (αἰώνιος ) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (αἰώνιος ) life."

This section of scripture uses the exact same greek word (αἰώνιος ) This word means 1 without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be. 2 without beginning. 3 without end, never to cease,

So the next questions that comes up is where does this everlasting punishment take place? Jesus tells us that also…
This next section od scripture describes the Judgment of the Nations, which is to be distinguished from the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Judgment of the Great White Throne.
The Judgment Seat of Christ, a time of review and reward for believers only, takes place after the Rapture (Rom. 14:10; 1 Cor. 3:11–15; 2 Cor. 5:9, 10). The Judgment of the Great White Throne takes place in eternity, after the Millennium. The wicked dead will be judged and consigned to the Lake of Fire

Rev. 20:11–15. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

So the next question that comes up is what is eternal punishment…
Lets take a look at what this passage says in the Greek…..
Here is Matt 25:46
και απελευσονται ουτοι εις κολασιν αιωνιον οι δε δικαιοι εις ζωην αιωνιον

The Greek word for Punishment is (κόλασις) This word simply means Torment…
Now what is torment. Well, I would say being cast into the lake of fire is torment.
Certainly torment would not be anything les that what Jesus went through on his way to the cross… None the less it is for ''ALL ETERNITY''

Now if you would like a complete A GRAMMATICAL ANALYSIS of this passage, I would be happy to do it for you. I took Greek for 2 1/2 years and understand well enough to read and write it.


The Judgment of the Nations, or Gentiles (the Greek word can mean either), takes place on earth after Christ comes to reign, as Matt 25:31 clearly states: “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him.†In identifying it with Joel 3, the location is the Valley of Jehoshaphat, outside Jerusalem. The nations will be judged according to their treatment of Christ’s Jewish brethren during the Tribulation (Joel 3:1, 2, 12–14; Matt. 25:31–46).
It is important to notice that three classes are mentionedâ€â€sheep, goats, and Christ’s brethren. The first two classes, over whom Christ sits in judgment, are Gentiles living during the Tribulation. The third class is Christ’s faithful Jewish brethren who refuse to deny His Name during the Tribulation in spite of towering persecution……..
The King places the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. He then invites the sheep to enter His glorious kingdom, prepared for them from the foundation of the world. The reason given is that they fed Him when hungry, gave Him drink when thirsty, welcomed Him when a stranger, clothed Him when ill-clad, visited Him in sickness, and went to Him in prison. The righteous sheep profess ignorance of ever showing such kindnesses to the King; He had not even been on earth in their generation. He explains that in befriending one of the least of His brethren, they befriended Him. Whatever is done for one of His disciples is rewarded as being done to Himself. The reason this is important and I went so far back is to capture the context of what Jesus is saying here……
OK, the unrighteous goats are told to depart from Him into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels because they failed to care for Him during the terrible Time of Jacob’s Trouble. When they excuse themselves by saying they had never seen Him, He reminds them that their neglect of His followers constituted neglect of Himself.
Thus the goats go away into everlasting punishment, but the sheep into eternal life .

Three other points should be mentioned. First, the kingdom is said to have been prepared for the righteous from the foundation of the world , whereas hell was prepared for the devil and his angels . God’s desire is that men should be blessed; hell was not originally intended for the human race. But if people willfully refuse life, they choose eternal torment…In closing I feel I need to mention this again…The Lord Jesus spoke of eternal (same word as â€Âeverlastingâ€Â) fire (v. 41), eternal punishment (v. 46), and eternal life (v. 46). The same One who taught eternal life taught eternal punishment (eternal torment). Since the same word for eternal is used to describe each, it is inconsistent to accept one without the other. If the word translated eternal does not mean everlasting, there is no word in the Greek language to convey the meaning. But we know that it does mean everlasting because it is used to describe the eternality of God (1 Tim. 1:17).
This is a good place to stop for now… Your turn.

 

[guibox]

jg,

Despite the fact that this is about the 'soul' and not eternal torment, I will post this here anyway. This is from bibletruthkeys.org

I was going to say the same thing, but they say it much more organized and I just don't have the time.

Please take a moment to read. Thanks

BTW: You do realize that all your translations hinges on the wicked having immortality (immortal bodies and immortal 'souls') something of which you still haven't proven. :wink:

We refer to the Greek work kolasin, translated "punishment," in verse 46. This word has not in it the remotest idea of torment. Its primary signification is to cut off, or prune, or lop off, as in the pruning of trees; and a secondary meaning is to restrain. The wicked will be everlastingly restrained, cut off from life in the Second death. Illustrations of the use of kolasin can easily be had from Greek classical writings. The Greek word for "torment" is basanos, a word totally unrelated to the word kolasin.
Kolasin, the word used in Matthew 25:46, occurs in but one other place in the Bible, viz., 1 John 4:18, where it is improperly rendered "torment" in the common version, whereas it should read, "Fear hath restraint." Those who possess a copy of Young's Analytical Concordance will see from it (page 995) that the definition of the word kolasin is "pruning, restraining, restraint." The author of the Emphatic Diaglott, after translating kolasin in Matthew 25:46 by the words "cutting off," says in a footnote:
The Common Version, and many modern ones, render kolasin aionioon, everlasting punishment, conveying the idea, as generally interpreted, of basinos, torment. Kolasin in its various forms only occurs in three other places in the New Testament: Acts 4:21; 2 Peter 2:9; 1 John 4:18. It is derived from kolazoo, which signifies, 1. To cut off; as lopping off branches of trees, to prune. 2. To restrain, to repress. The Greeks write -- 'The charioteer restrains [kolazei] his fiery steeds.' 3. To chastize, to punish. To cut off an individual from life, or society, or even to restrain, is esteemed as punishment; -- hence has arisen this third metaphorical use of the word. The primary signification has been adopted [in the Diaglott], because it agrees better with the second member of the sentence, thus preserving the force and beauty of the antithesis. The righteous go to life, the wicked to the cutting off from life, or death. See 2 Thes. 1:9."
Now consider carefully the text, and note the antithesis, the contrast, shown between the reward of the "sheep" and the reward of the "goats," which the correct idea of kolasin gives -- the one class goes into everlasting life, while the other is everlastingly cut off from life -- forever restrained in death. And this exactly agrees with what the scriptures everywhere else declare concerning the wages or penalty of willful sin.

 

[jgredline]

Guibox wrote"
We refer to the Greek work kolasin

[quote:03dc4]
JG wrote:
This would be fine and dandy, except this is not the word the Greek uses. The Greek word here is κόκκος [kolasis /kol·as·is/]
Verse 46 και απελευσονται ουτοι εις κολασιν αιωνιον οι δε δικαιοι εις ζωην αιωνιον

This is based on Dr. Maurice Robinson’s edition of the 1550 Textus Receptus Which is the most accurate up to date Greek text..of the NT

, translated "punishment," in verse 46. This word has not in it the remotest idea of torment. Its primary signification is to cut off, or prune, or lop off, as in the pruning of trees; and a secondary meaning is to restrain.

JG wrote: Sorry, The Greek word to describe what you said above is κολάζω kolazo /kol·ad·zo This word means what you just said..
1 to lop or prune, as trees and wings. 2 to curb, check, restrain. 3 to chastise, correct, punishment. 4 to cause to be punished. This word is not used in the matt 25 passage.....

The wicked will be everlastingly restrained, cut off from life in the Second death. Illustrations of the use of kolasin can easily be had from Greek classical writings. The Greek word for "torment" is basanos, a word totally unrelated to the word kolasin.

JG wrote:
Are you really going to compare ''Greek Classical Writings to the bible? :o
Basanos indeed is another word to describe torment. You are correct here.
You are also correct in that it has no releation to Kolasin.. By the way, I have a NT bible that is written in all Greek 1550 textus Receptus and a Greek concordance and this word Kolasin never shows up. Perhaps it is a JW translation? I shot an e mail over to my Greek professor and I will see what he says about that word...

Kolasin, the word used in Matthew 25:46, occurs in but one other place in the Bible, viz., 1 John 4:18, where it is improperly rendered "torment" in the common version, whereas it should read, "Fear hath restraint." Those who possess a copy of Young's Analytical Concordance will see from it (page 995) that the definition of the word kolasin is "pruning, restraining, restraint." The author of the Emphatic Diaglott, after translating kolasin in Matthew 25:46 by the words "cutting off," says in a footnote:

JG Wrote: I have already pointed out this error...No need to do it again

The Common Version, and many modern ones, render kolasin aionioon, everlasting punishment, conveying the idea, as generally interpreted, of basinos, torment. Kolasin in its various forms only occurs in three other places in the New Testament: Acts 4:21; 2 Peter 2:9; 1 John 4:18. It is derived from kolazoo, which signifies, 1. To cut off; as lopping off branches of trees, to prune. 2. To restrain, to repress. The Greeks write -- 'The charioteer restrains [kolazei] his fiery steeds.' 3. To chastize, to punish. To cut off an individual from life, or society, or even to restrain, is esteemed as punishment; -- hence has arisen this third metaphorical use of the word. The primary signification has been adopted [in the Diaglott], because it agrees better with the second member of the sentence, thus preserving the force and beauty of the antithesis. The righteous go to life, the wicked to the cutting off from life, or death. See 2 Thes. 1:9."
Now consider carefully the text, and note the antithesis, the contrast, shown between the reward of the "sheep" and the reward of the "goats," which the correct idea of kolasin gives -- the one class goes into everlasting life, while the other is everlastingly cut off from life -- forever restrained in death. And this exactly agrees with what the scriptures everywhere else declare concerning the wages or penalty of willful sin.

JG wrote:
Guibox
Who ever wrote this needs to take some Greek lessons. This is full of the same mistakes and twisting that the JW put into their book the watchtower.
This paper is based on one word that is not in the original text.

[/quote:03dc4]

 

[jgredline]

Guibox
I just finished checking out that web site that you got this story on.

This is what there ''satement of beliefs says''

Who are the Bible Students?

The Bible Students are an independent Christian group who are not affiliated with any established denominations. We are a world-wide fellowship, with each group being autonomous within themselves.

We accept Christ as our personal Savior and believe that he died, not only for the Christian, but in due time for all the willing and obedient of the world.

We accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God and study it in its entirety, both the Old and New Testaments, seeking the harmony of the complete Scriptural testimony.

This web site is a UR site... http://www.bibletruthkeys.com/

Now I bring this up, because I have debated enough with you to know you don't believe this junk of UR and also because your brighter than this.
Please do not take this as an attack, as I have done mistakes like this in past as well.
Blessings, Javier

 

[jgredline]

Guibox
I just got home and dug out two Greek Interlinear Bibles i have.
One from crossway and one from marshall

The one from marshal has the correct word in it kolasis
as it is based on the 1550 textus Rec..

The one from crossway has that other word. kolasin.. The problem is this bible does not say what Greek text it used if any....:o

This is one reason people should NOT use interlinear bibles.
These two I have, I purchsed about 5 years ago and have never used them until today...

 

[jgredline]

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 871#305871

 

[Jay T]

What makes this differant is that JAY T is a moderator. He is supposed to be in agreement with the Statment of beliefs and the TOS.

Using this analogy...then Jesus Christ, was to have been in total agreement, with the religious leaders of HIS day !

YET.....Jesus Christ was to come to accomplish : "The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable".

WHY ?

Because the religious leaders of Christ's day had corrupted the Law of God, twiisting it around, and making it a burden to the people, instead of the Law, based on LOVE, which God intended it to be.

I will NEVER...cease to reveal God's will, as it is presented in the Bible !!!

Knowing, I will be persecuted, for doing so (Matthew 5:10-12).

 

[Oscar3]

Using this analogy...then Jesus Christ, was to have been in total agreement, with the religious leaders of HIS day !

YET.....Jesus Christ was to come to accomplish : "The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable".

WHY ?

Because the religious leaders of Christ's day had corrupted the Law of God, twiisting it around, and making it a burden to the people, instead of the Law, based on LOVE, which God intended it to be.

I will NEVER...cease to reveal God's will, as it is presented in the Bible !!!

Knowing, I will be persecuted, for doing so (Matthew 5:10-12).

Jay T
If I may Kindly ask? What does this have to do with this thread?
Why are you trying to railroad and Hijack this thread. You as a ''moderator''
should know better. Shame on you for its your own conscience that condems you.

 

[Jay T]

Jay T
If I may Kindly ask? What does this have to do with this thread?

Had you read everything on this thread, you'd have seen me being accused of things I felt needed answering, OK ?

Someone felt I should abandon what the Bible says, in favor of some doctrine, that might not Biblical.
Maybe some investigation should be in order ?

Why are you trying to railroad and Hijack this thread. You as a ''moderator''
should know better. Shame on you for its your own conscience that condems you.

First and foremost, The truths of the Bible MUST...be presented, regardless of what anyone thinks.......
Eternal LIVES, ARE AT STAKE !
33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

 

[Drew]

What makes this differant is that JAY T is a moderator. He is supposed to be in agreement with the Statment of beliefs and the TOS.

Using this analogy...then Jesus Christ, was to have been in total agreement, with the religious leaders of HIS day !

YET.....Jesus Christ was to come to accomplish : "The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable".

WHY ?

Because the religious leaders of Christ's day had corrupted the Law of God, twiisting it around, and making it a burden to the people, instead of the Law, based on LOVE, which God intended it to be.

I will NEVER...cease to reveal God's will, as it is presented in the Bible !!!

Knowing, I will be persecuted, for doing so (Matthew 5:10-12).

Jay T
If I may Kindly ask? What does this have to do with this thread?
Why are you trying to railroad and Hijack this thread. You as a ''moderator''
should know better. Shame on you for its your own conscience that condems you

Let's see what the facts have to say about this matter. The fact is that on November 14, oscar3 introduced the matter of Jay T and the issue of his moderatorship in relation to the Statement of Faith (post reproduced below). Jay T is only responding to an issue that was raised by oscar3. So, of course, any blame for the introduction of the sidetrack of Jay T and the rules lies at the feet of......well, I'll let the reader figure it out.

It is therefore a little amusing that Jay T should be accused by oscar3 of "trying to railroad and Hijack this thread".

Jat T
While I am no expert on this stuff you are talking about I do know a hypocrite when I see one..

When you joined this forum you agreed with the foollowing statements, and this is only a small part of the statement of faith. While I believe that seeing these other guys like drew, gubox, cp, sput are also breaking this very rule, they are here as outsiders causing trouble and keeping the real Christians from posting. Most people don't like to argue and everything that they do turns into an argument against what most people believe.

You on the other hand are a moderator. As a moderator you are a part of the leader ship here on this board, as the statement of belief says.

By being a leader, you are supposed to be above reproach. You talk about a HOLY GOD, in your post , yet you are commiting the sin of lying to us by agreeing that you believe that hell is an eternal place of torment forever and then with your other face you say it is not.

 

[Oscar3]

First and foremost, The truths of the Bible MUST...be presented, regardless of what anyone thinks.......
Eternal LIVES, ARE AT STAKE !
33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Jay T
If I may Kindly ask.
Are you a JW ?