Soul Sleep yes or no?

[Carry_Your_Name]

The spirit not the soul-- meanest thou?

Not interchangeable.

 

[7thMoon]

Not interchangeable.

ee-yes, but the word soul talks about breath in any sense. The Greek thought it was the human intelligence, since it made noises.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

ee-yes, but the word soul talks about breath in any sense. The Greek thought it was the human intelligence, since it made noises.

No, the Greek word for soul is "psyche", as in "psychology".

 

[7thMoon]

No, the Greek word for soul is "psyche", as in "psychology".

It come from a verb psuchwo meaning to breath. Even the Greek term for reincarnation Metapsychosis implies breath from body to body. In Hebrew, it is just nephesh, the breath and pulse of a creature.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It come from a verb psuchwo meaning to breath. Even the Greek term for reincarnation Metapsychosis implies breath from body to body. In Hebrew, it is just nephesh, the breath and pulse of a creature.

The Greek term for spirit is pneuma, as in "pneumonia". Soul = Spirt + Body, as God formed human by breathing into dust. Body is the dust of the ground, spirit is God's breath, and soul is a "living being", a body activated by the breath of God.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7)

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies, his soul "sleeps" or the denial of man's conscious existence between when he dies and the resurrection day. It's what is called the intermediate state of the believer, in which both the body and the soul lay rest in the ground and the phrase 'soul sleep' appears to have been popularized by John Calvin. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious till he is made alive at the resurrection by Christ at the Second Coming.

So what does the Bible say at whether you lay in the grave in a non sentient state, awaiting Christ.

Let's look at the story of Lazarus who was raised up from the grave by Christ.
John 11:11-14 - These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. And then in verse 17 Jesus says of Lazarus: 17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he [Lazarus] had lain in the grave four days already.

We see that Jesus equated death to sleep and used the terms interchangeably; and in this story Lazarus has been dead for 4 days. Let's continue:
Verse 43-44: And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Now, Lazarus had been dead for 4 days, if he had in fact gone to heaven (or hell) in any conscious form why is nothing told by Lazarus of this? Lazarus does not come back to life with any stories of where he was, what he saw, or anything. He doesn't talk about walking on streets of gold nor burning with fire. After being resurrected he does speak, and all he says is a simple acknowledgement of who was standing there with Jesus. So lets look at the whole Bible and see what we find.

reddogs Please don't argue from the silence of the Bible, when you say what Lazarus didn't say. We don't know what he didn't or did say. That's not John's focus; it's on Jesus' amazing miracle, as it should be. Also, the verb "to sleep" is a euphemism for "to die" often in the New Testament.

 

[7thMoon]

The Greek term for spirit is pneuma, as in "pneumonia". Soul = Spirt + Body, as God formed human by breathing into dust. Body is the dust of the ground, spirit is God's breath, and soul is a "living being", a body activated by the breath of God.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7)

You can believe what you want. But that doesn't make it true.

 

[7thMoon]

Bruce.Leiter Soul means just breath, not breathing plus body.

 

[Free]

Bruce.Leiter Soul means just breath, not breathing plus body.

On the contrary:

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (ESV)

 

[7thMoon]

On the contrary:

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (ESV)

Let us look at the BLB's evidence on this. 10:28 καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβηθήτε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ
Men can't kill another person's breath, but God can kill both the body and the breath.

Acts 5:3
KJV
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Suffocating, because God wants you to, is a bad way too die.

 

[Free]

Let us look at the BLB's evidence on this. 10:28 καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβηθήτε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ
Men can't kill another person's breath, but God can kill both the body and the breath.

How does "Men can't kill another person's breath, but God can kill both the body and the breath," make sense? I've heard of some who kill others with their breath, particularly in the morning, but never being able to kill someone else's breath. How is breath killed when it isn't alive?

You’re confusing pneuma (breath, spirit), with psychē (soul, life [breath of life], self), which is used here.

Mat 16:25 For whoever would save his life [psychē] will lose it, but whoever loses his life [psychē] for my sake will find it. (ESV)

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit [pneuma] and soul [psyche] and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (ESV)

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul [psyche] and of spirit [pneuma], of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (ESV)

Acts 5:3
KJV
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

I don’t understand what you're trying to show with this verse.

Suffocating, because God wants you to, is a bad way too die.

Suffocating?

 

[7thMoon]

Mat 16:25 For whoever would save his life [psychē] will lose it, but whoever loses his life [psychē] for my sake will find it. (ESV)

This verse doesn't prove what you think it does. It is also a prophecy.

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit [pneuma] and soul [psyche] and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (ESV)

It mentions 3 things and doesn't prove your point again.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul [psyche] and of spirit [pneuma], of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (ESV)

Wow, a third verse which doesn't prove your point.

Act 5:5
¶
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

Textus Receptus​

5:5 ἀκούων δὲ Ἁνανίας τοὺς λόγους τούτους πεσὼν ἐξέψυξεν καὶ ἐγένετο φόβος μέγας ἐπὶ πάντας τοὺς ἀκούοντας ταῦτα

Fear only the one who can kill both body and breath in Gehenna which is not Hades or Hell. I think Acts 5:5 proves the point exactly.

 

[LeviR]

The Greek term for spirit is pneuma, as in "pneumonia". Soul = Spirt + Body, as God formed human by breathing into dust. Body is the dust of the ground, spirit is God's breath, and soul is a "living being", a body activated by the breath of God.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7)

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7)

All of the confusion was brought about by the Catholic Church when it declared that Adam did not become a living soul but instead was given an immortal soul.

And when God told Adam saying, “dust YOU are, and to dust YOU shall return”

The RCC claims it is not YOU that returns to dust, YOU live on. It is only YOUR BODY, not YOU that returns to dust.

Adam, the “YOU”, supposedly went into Limbo paradise.

 

[7thMoon]

Adam, the “YOU”, supposedly went into Limbo paradise.

Limbo is hell. Purjatory came from a Christian belief in Gehena as the afterlife punishment. Gehena has nothing to do with afterlife punishment or hell. Ever since Abel, God has been waking people out of death to heaven and to hell. The God didn't suddenly call all sinners and become more generous about it.

 

[LeviR]

Limbo is hell. Purjatory came from a Christian belief in Gehena as the afterlife punishment. Gehena has nothing to do with afterlife punishment or hell. Ever since Abel, God has been waking people out of death to heaven and to hell. The God didn't suddenly call all sinners and become more generous about it.

It was believed during Jesus day, and before it, that people went to heaven or a fiery hell as soon as they died.
But then it was realized that this would be impossible because Jesus had to die first for anyone to go to heaven.
So they invented Limbo hell or paradise as a certain compartment of hell.
It’s all unbiblical myth.

 

[7thMoon]

It was believed during Jesus day, and before it, that people went to heaven or a fiery hell as soon as they died.
But then it was realized that this would be impossible because Jesus had to die first for anyone to go to heaven.
So they invented Limbo hell or paradise as a certain compartment of hell.
It’s all unbiblical myth.

It isn't that simple. The JWs have a destructive innovation. God is a jerk who raises only 144,000 from the dead, and there is no sleep if you were wicked. You stop existing. And what deserves that?

 

[LeviR]

It isn't that simple. The JWs have a destructive innovation. God is a jerk who raises only 144,000 from the dead, and there is no sleep if you were wicked. You stop existing. And what deserves that?

I’m not JW.
The 144,000 are mortal. All the rest with faith had already been raised immortal. They all come with Jesus to rescue those faithful mortals from the persecution they will face during the tribulation.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7)

All of the confusion was brought about by the Catholic Church when it declared that Adam did not become a living soul but instead was given an immortal soul.

And when God told Adam saying, “dust YOU are, and to dust YOU shall return”

The RCC claims it is not YOU that returns to dust, YOU live on. It is only YOUR BODY, not YOU that returns to dust.

Adam, the “YOU”, supposedly went into Limbo paradise.

After death, body returns to the ground, the spirit returns to God, that's what happened after Jesus died on the cross - "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!"

 

[7thMoon]

After death, body returns to the ground, the spirit returns to God, that's what happened after Jesus died on the cross - "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!"

Free would have you believe his breath returned to God.

 

[LeviR]

After death, body returns to the ground, the spirit returns to God, that's what happened after Jesus died on the cross - "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!"

Man is a living breathing soul. That’s what he is while he is alive. Animals are the same. They too are living breathing souls.
But animals don’t get resurrected from the dead.
Jesus was resurrected from the dead.
It was into the hands of God that Jesus committed his life to.
He gave his life and then took it back again when raised from the dead.
Like all other man, Jesus was not given an immortal soul which they refer to as being the “real person” who supposedly dies and goes immediately to be with God.
No, that is false.
Man needs to have a body and breath of life to be a real person. To be a real living soul.