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Drinking alcohol (not drunkenness)

Elijah674 said:
?? So a little sin is OK as long as we don't over do it, huh???? Look, did Christ create fermented (caused by 'fermentation or decay') Grape Juice? A sinless creator created a sin infested drink? I will NEVER BELIEVE that one!
--Elijah
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That is not what I said.

  • I believe it is not a sin to eat dinner. I believe it is a sin to stuff yourself.
  • I believe it is not a sin to use sugar. I believe it is a sin to eat it until you get sick.
  • I believe it is not a sin to be successful. I believe it is a sin to allow success consume your life.
  • I believe it is not a sin to get angry. I believe it is a sin to let anger control you.
  • I believe it is not a sin to drink an alcoholic beverage. I believe it is a sin to drink to the point of being drunk.
 
Elijah674 said:
?? So a little sin is OK as long as we don't over do it, huh???? Look, did Christ create fermented (caused by 'fermentation or decay') Grape Juice? A sinless creator created a sin infested drink? I will NEVER BELIEVE that one!
--Elijah
Click to expand...

Didn't Jesus turn water into wine?
 
Re: Drinking alcohol (not drunkenness)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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Originally Posted by Elijah674
?? So a little sin is OK as long as we don't over do it, huh???? Look, did Christ create fermented (caused by 'fermentation or decay') Grape Juice? A sinless creator created a sin infested drink? I will NEVER BELIEVE that one!
--Elijah

Today, 04:04 AM
bigllama



Didn't Jesus turn water into wine?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Hi, seriously!:thumbsup Go read what He (Christ) did! There is all of God's Creation, Adam on! And using ALL OR ANY THING OF THEIR PERFECT CREATION, and then apply it to what sin is described as, or how it came about, finds the 'fermented' difference after sin did its job! (see James 1:15)

Sin which is satan's mixture of 'FERMENTATION' being called such even in his using 'false' doctrin's mixed the good with the bad, which then leaves only bad left! And the longer that they are around? the far more they become 'biting like that serpent' of Prov. 23:32. (contamination)

Wine is PURE GRAPE JUICE before age and cetain conditions has it fermented. Proverbs 23:29-35 documents when to leave WINE alone! ibid 31 And Christ CREATED wine at its [BEST!]:thumbsup

So NO, it is just satan's Jer. 17:5 ones who have aided satan in false doctrines of his. From Gen. 3 on, of calling the Godhead liars on through history. But soon satan & his ones will be BLOTTED FROM ETERNITY, and will be 'AS THOUGH THEY HAD NEVER BEEN'! Obad. 1:16:study:crying

--Elijah
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ronniechoate34 said:
There's actually pretty solid evidence that the use of the word wine not always refers to an alcoholic beverage. The word wine has also been used to describe plain old fruit juice.


Personally I believe that drinking is a sin.
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Jesus was accused of keeping company with low-lifes. I don't think they were talking about having an occasional banana.
 
Drinking alcohol (not drunkenness)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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Originally Posted by ronniechoate34
There's actually pretty solid evidence that the use of the word wine not always refers to an alcoholic beverage. The word wine has also been used to describe plain old fruit juice.


Personally I believe that drinking is a sin.

Sparrow.. says:
Jesus was accused of keeping company with low-lifes. I don't think they were talking about having an occasional banana.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Elijah here: So what are you suggesting in that post, that Christ by 'spiritual motivated association' did the devil's thing to gain converts??:screwloose See Matt. 4:1-10

Just wondering, are you SDA?? Matt. 23:15
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Sparrowhawke said:
Jesus was accused of keeping company with low-lifes.
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Association with criminals doesn't mean you are any more culpable than the guy who makes company with ministers, or at least in the legal sense you are no more culpable.

Apply that same idea to Jesus...
 
Drinking is not a sin. No where in the Bible that I can see does it says it is. Drunkedness on the other hand clearly is.

Different Christians will have different opinions based on their own experiences with achohol (directly or indirectly) but whatever our opinion we need to keep in mind that we are to love our Christian brothers & sisters sacrificially and not do anything that may cause them to stumble. That may mean giving up alchohol when in the company of some of our Christian bretheren while not when in the company of others.

On a broader level, Paul tells that he himself went out to win those for Christ and became a Jew for the Jews etc (1 Cor 9). This will mean that as Christians that we may be in a situation where we will be with non-Christians and alchohol will be served. By drinking some in moderation we can relate easier to them rather than re-inforce the "wowser" tag we so often are forced to wear. By telling them that drinking is a sin per se you will do little to further the Gospel.

Another factor is cultural. Im from Australia where the pub (hotel) culture is very differenrt to the UK where I was working for a month in 2010. I hooked up with an excellent Evangelical Church in the UK who held an invitational restaurant meeting (bring a non Christian friend) with a guest speaker (Gospel explanation) at a pub. It was great!! Not something you would do here but something culturally appropriate there. Oh, some people ordered alchohol, some didn't. No big deal.
 
Elijah674 said:
Drinking alcohol (not drunkenness)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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Originally Posted by ronniechoate34
There's actually pretty solid evidence that the use of the word wine not always refers to an alcoholic beverage. The word wine has also been used to describe plain old fruit juice.


Personally I believe that drinking is a sin.

Sparrow.. says:
Jesus was accused of keeping company with low-lifes. I don't think they were talking about having an occasional banana.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Elijah here: So what are you suggesting in that post, that Christ by 'spiritual motivated association' did the devil's thing to gain converts??:screwloose See Matt. 4:1-10

Just wondering, are you SDA?? Matt. 23:15
​
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I am not sure who you are asking about the SDA thing, but I am not a SDA.
 
Elijah674 said:
Drinking alcohol (not drunkenness)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
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Originally Posted by ronniechoate34
There's actually pretty solid evidence that the use of the word wine not always refers to an alcoholic beverage. The word wine has also been used to describe plain old fruit juice.


Personally I believe that drinking is a sin.

Sparrow.. says:
Jesus was accused of keeping company with low-lifes. I don't think they were talking about having an occasional banana.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Elijah here: So what are you suggesting in that post, that Christ by 'spiritual motivated association' did the devil's thing to gain converts??:screwloose See Matt. 4:1-10

Just wondering, are you SDA?? Matt. 23:15
​
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I don't even know what SDA is. It seems that you are asking me what I meant to suggest by saying that Jesus was accused because he associated with people that others looked down on. It's not a suggestion but rather a truth. He was accused of it. I don't understand what you mean by "spiritual motivated association" either but can assure you that Jesus did nothing except the will of His Father in heaven.

Pardon the confusion (if there indeed was any).

(Mat 9:10-12 KJV) - "And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. ...
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Pard said:
Association with criminals doesn't mean you are any more culpable than the guy who makes company with ministers, or at least in the legal sense you are no more culpable.

Apply that same idea to Jesus...
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I probably should have been more specific about the accusations that the bible mentions. Jesus was looked down on because he kept company with tax-collectors and "wine-bibbers". When asked about why the Pharisees fasted but they (Jesus and his disciples) didn't fast he explained, "Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."

Right after this he explained the need for repentance and new birth by analogy saying, "No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved." (Mat 9:16-17 KJV)

My thought is that the fruit of the earth (the grape) will produce joy. The "sin" analogy of the fermentation process wasn't considered or discussed nor is it universal.

The parallel passage found in Luke 5 shows more detail (for those interested). Here we see a publican named Levi who Jesus associated with and told to follow him. In another passage we see that Jesus also put a point on this teaching when he told the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican stating that the prayers of the humble were heard and the prayer of the proud was not:

(Luk 5:27-35, 39 KJV) - "And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me. And he left all, rose up, and followed him. And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them. But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink? And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days."
In the gospel of Luke we see that Jesus concluded his teaching about old and new wine by saying ... [vs. 39]: No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better."
 
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ronniechoate34 said:
I am not sure who you are asking about the SDA thing, but I am not a SDA.
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Seriously, do you really know of a "SDA" thing? Cause I sure don't. Yet I would like to know!

Sounds like whatever it is, it's not good.

Hence, "but I am not SDA!!" HAHA

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
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