[_ Old Earth _] Earths Age

[jasonc]

I haven't posted the older discovery of the human remains in my state that predate(if you believe that) the vero man.

sellers believed the vero man was the oldest man in north America and was laughed into obscurity and now a hundred years later he is taken more seriously.

 

[Truthfrees]

That's true.
But we certainly know that it is older than 6000 years.
The Bible is NOT a science book.
It's as THEOLOGY book.

there was a christian group - 100 huntley street i think - that cut down a living tree - petrified it - with electricity or something - i forget how they did it

they cut it into many slices - growth rings visible/intact - and had many different "scientists" age it

they all came back with different ages - in the millions - because back then the earth was supposed to be millions of years old

now i think they claim the age of the earth is in the billions

so there is something terribly wrong with their aging methods

i really don't trust them

God and the bible i trust because over and over things get proven by honest science

it seems when evolution is involved "science" gets dishonest

 

[Jim Parker]

God and the bible i trust because over and over things get proven by honest science

Again. (I find I have to keep repeating this.) The Bible is not a history book or a science book.
The Bible tells us about God's revelation to mankind.
It tells us about God's will for man.
It tells us about salvation in Jesus Christ.

It does not tell us how old the universe or the earth is because those things are unimportant.

What IS important is: Who is Jesus and what did He accomplish?

Would who He is and what He did be any different if the earth was billions of years old or if it was 6000 years old?

The earth's age not important to me.

It might be important to an astrophysicist. If you told him/her that the Bible says the universe is only 6000 years old you might blow his/her only opportunity to hear about Jesus.

So, what's more important to you: how old the earth is or what Jesus is about?

 

[KevinK]

my thoughts are "there was evening there was morning the 1st...2nd...etc day"

so evening and morning would be 24 hrs would it not?

i guess i thought everyone would see it that way

how can "evening morning the 1st day" not be 24 hrs?

I wanted to respond to your excellent question, using ideas from my previous post:

1. If Genesis is a parable, and the time periods described therein are not literal days and evenings, but historical eras of much longer duration.

2. If time flow was much different during the early stages of the creation of the universe, and back then a day lasted not 24 hours, but some 2 billion years. (Actually that's an elegant rough estimate, with a billion year daylight and a billion year nighttime.)

 

[Razeontherock]

yabba, dabba, do couldn't resist.

How do we know that God might have created others before Adam, but it repented Him that He created them and destroyed them as there was no Noah found among them, Genesis 6:6-8. Another thing I ponder is when God told Adam to replenish the earth, Genesis 1:28, as why would it say replenish instead of plenish the earth. Just odd things I pick up at times.

Who was already here when Adam and Eve showed up?

 

[Truthfrees]

I wanted to respond to your excellent question, using ideas from my previous post:

1. If Genesis is a parable, and the time periods described therein are not literal days and evenings, but historical eras of much longer duration.

2. If time flow was much different during the early stages of the creation of the universe, and back then a day lasted not 24 hours, but some 2 billion years. (Actually that's an elegant rough estimate, with a billion year daylight and a billion year nighttime.)

thank you for that answer

i guess how a person interprets scripture depends on what a person believes the bible is

i believe the Bible is God speaking to us

God created everything - laws - science - matter - time - so contained in the Bible is everything we need

i suppose if people think the bible is only theology or parable this would explain why we are disagreeing about things i thought were clear and plain

thank you - i now understand why you and Jim Parker say the things you say

that probably means we can't change each other's minds - the best we can do is understand where the other person is coming from

God Bless you both

 

[KevinK]

Yep, you got the nail right on the head. I think we are proceeding from very different assumptions. Honestly, I don't even know who's "right", so approach this whole issue from an admittedly academic perspective. I just find discussing it is fascinating in its own right.

 

[Truthfrees]

Again. (I find I have to keep repeating this.) The Bible is not a history book or a science book.
The Bible tells us about God's revelation to mankind.
It tells us about God's will for man.
It tells us about salvation in Jesus Christ.

It does not tell us how old the universe or the earth is because those things are unimportant.

What IS important is: Who is Jesus and what did He accomplish?

Would who He is and what He did be any different if the earth was billions of years old or if it was 6000 years old?

The earth's age not important to me.

It might be important to an astrophysicist. If you told him/her that the Bible says the universe is only 6000 years old you might blow his/her only opportunity to hear about Jesus.

So, what's more important to you: how old the earth is or what Jesus is about?

there was an amazing scientist - george washington carver - who did amazing research and applications with his research

he read science books but he said the bible was the best science book

really for myself i find the best answers to all my questions in the bible - and/or the bible confirms answers i find elsewhere - and science confirms the bible

as per my post to kevink i guess we have a different opinion of what the bible is - to me it is a theology book - a science book - a civil law book - a morality book - a social action book - a parenting book - a cookbook - a medical book - and more

i can see why you think the bible is only a theology book - but i see more in the bible for myself - so i will not be able to think of the bible as only a theology book

is theology more important than science? - probably - but because the bible contains all kinds of things i think everything God put in the bible is important

God Bless you my friend

 

[Truthfrees]

Yep, you got the nail right on the head. I think we are proceeding from very different assumptions. Honestly, I don't even know who's "right", so approach this whole issue from an admittedly academic perspective. I just find discussing it is fascinating in its own right.

i agree - i learn a lot from people who disagree with me - it expands my understanding greatly - even if in the end i continue to disagree - but many times i have changed my mind based on good discussions - and i want to keep learning and growing

people are fascinating - and God gives really good ideas to everyone - which makes friendly discussions enjoyable

judging attacking discussions are disturbing and unprofitabe

God Bless you my friend

 

[for_his_glory]

Razeontherock
My reply button is not working so in reply to your post #265 I never said there were others here before Adam and Eve. I said these are things I ponder and think about. I started this thread to see what others thought about the age of the earth.

 

[JacobsLadder]

Again. (I find I have to keep repeating this.) The Bible is not a history book or a science book.
The Bible tells us about God's revelation to mankind.
It tells us about God's will for man.
It tells us about salvation in Jesus Christ.

The Bible is the word of God.

To compare the Bible to a history book, science book or any work of a man is disrespectful to His word.

It does not tell us how old the universe or the earth is because those things are unimportant.

What IS important is: Who is Jesus and what did He accomplish?

Would who He is and what He did be any different if the earth was billions of years old or if it was 6000 years old?

The earth's age not important to me.

The Bible tells us all we need to know, and I believe the Bible teaches us the Earth is several thousand years old. As others have mentioned, God does not deceive.

It might be important to an astrophysicist. If you told him/her that the Bible says the universe is only 6000 years old you might blow his/her only opportunity to hear about Jesus.

So, what's more important to you: how old the earth is or what Jesus is about?

Both, because it is the word of God.

As a devout Christian, I have no doubt what I believe and no history or science book will change that.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

i agree - i learn a lot from people who disagree with me - it expands my understanding greatly - even if in the end i continue to disagree - but many times i have changed my mind based on good discussions - and i want to keep learning and growing

people are fascinating - and God gives really good ideas to everyone - which makes friendly discussions enjoyable

judging attacking discussions are disturbing and unprofitabe

God Bless you my friend

It's refreshing to hear this kind of attitude. I find it rare, on these forums, to hear of anyone who "changed their mind".
If they have, they have not vocalized it.

Most of the time, I see constant bickering and bantering back and forth for page after page. All the while, both posters are firmly rooted in their view.

 

[JacobsLadder]

It's refreshing to hear this kind of attitude. I find it rare, on these forums, to hear of anyone who "changed their mind".
If they have, they have not vocalized it.

Most of the time, I see constant bickering and bantering back and forth for page after page. All the while, both posters are firmly rooted in their view.

I can also agree with the sentiment.

I think these discussions are important and accept that views will differ.

I consider it very positive that we can continue this discussion at length and still respect each other.

 

[Truthfrees]

It's refreshing to hear this kind of attitude. I find it rare, on these forums, to hear of anyone who "changed their mind".
If they have, they have not vocalized it.

Most of the time, I see constant bickering and bantering back and forth for page after page. All the while, both posters are firmly rooted in their view.

amen - i see no reason to attack anyone - and in the end they may have been right - and i may have been wrong

i've had egg on my face too many times - so now i am more open minded

i think back to when i was "always right" - i was really maybe just grasping at trying to nail things down - so i was legalistic and inflexible - probably to hide my shaky confidence - almost like thinking i was right made me feel better - and not knowing what was right or wrong shook my world

well i found 1 thing far worse than not knowing what is right or wrong - it's BEING wrong - and adamantly CLAIMING to be right - wow - what a dummy i was so often in the past - don't want to be a dummy anymore - so now it is easier to listen to what everyone has to say - and then think and pray about it - and then share my reasons for my ideas - realizing that i may soon be changing my mind yet again

God bless you my dear friend

 

[Truthfrees]

I can also agree with the sentiment.

I think these discussions are important and accept that views will differ.

I consider it very positive that we can continue this discussion at length and still respect each other.

amen - well said

 

[Jacks Bratt]

amen - i see no reason to attack anyone - and in the end they may have been right - and i may have been wrong

i've had egg on my face too many times - so now i am more open minded

i think back to when i was "always right" - i was really maybe just grasping at trying to nail things down - so i was legalistic and inflexible - probably to hide my shaky confidence - almost like thinking i was right made me feel better - and not knowing what was right or wrong shook my world

well i found 1 thing far worse than not knowing what is right or wrong - it's BEING wrong - and adamantly CLAIMING to be right - wow - what a dummy i was so often in the past - don't want to be a dummy anymore - so now it is easier to listen to what everyone has to say - and then think and pray about it - and then share my reasons for my ideas - realizing that i may soon be changing my mind yet again

God bless you my dear friend

I think we have all rowed that boat to shore...

We are all "too soon old, too late smart".

My favorite bumper sticker...." Hire a teenager, while they still know everything".

 

[Truthfrees]

I think we have all rowed that boat to shore...

We are all "too soon old, too late smart".

My favorite bumper sticker...." Hire a teenager, while they still know everything".

lol - yes -

thank God He loves us as we are - it can be quite embarrassing to be a know it all - we just don't usually realize we embarrassed ourselves until years later -

why does God love us so much considering the way we are? - probably because HE is so good - it surely has nothing to do with our "fine" attributes

 

[jay55]

The Bible is not a history book or a science book.

I'm not sure I would agree with that one. It is at least a book of history (although it is much more).

 

[Jacks Bratt]

I'm not sure I would agree with that one. It is at least a book of history (although it is much more).

People who say that the bible is not a science book, are correct that it doesn't describe atoms and the periodic table. Or metallurgy, rocket science and such.

However, it does talk a lot about things, in the background, which prove accurate when science discovers things.

 

[Pizza]

Again. (I find I have to keep repeating this.) The Bible is not a history book or a science book.
The Bible tells us about God's revelation to mankind.
It tells us about God's will for man.
It tells us about salvation in Jesus Christ.

It does not tell us how old the universe or the earth is because those things are unimportant.

What IS important is: Who is Jesus and what did He accomplish?

Would who He is and what He did be any different if the earth was billions of years old or if it was 6000 years old?

The earth's age not important to me.

It might be important to an astrophysicist. If you told him/her that the Bible says the universe is only 6000 years old you might blow his/her only opportunity to hear about Jesus.

So, what's more important to you: how old the earth is or what Jesus is about?

This really IS the heart of the matter. Beautifully stated.


And how old is the earth? Are the "young earthers" right? Are the "old earthers" right?
I propose that God is not the author of confusion (cause He ain't). I propose that He never intended us to read the Bible with the idea that we'd walk away with knowledge of His creation of such a level that we can answer such questions simply by reading a few verses in the Bible. Who here really thinks they understand how He did it all? I think we all agree that the earth and all of the universe were created by Him. We just can't agree on the timeline of that creation.

But timelines are funny things. Timelines depend on not only time, but space, that is, we must understand space-time in order to answer the question of "how old is the earth". And none of us here understand space-time on such a level that we can explain the age of the earth.

Many of you read that sentence and found it to be nonsense, but I am convinced that we CANNOT answer that question.

I believe that it all started with "The Big Bang". I believe that what you read in very early genesis, is a description of what science calls "the big bang". I believe that when they do their research, and their math, they see the signature of what God did to bring things into existence from nothing. And that IS what science tells us: "There was nothing, and then BANG! There was the beginnings of the universe". Science can't tell us any more, and I would not expect them to. It is GOD who tells us more, He tells us that He did it. Of course, our minds are too limited for Him to tell us how He did it, even our best minds cannot grasp THAT.

Before I go on, remember something: Time does not exist in and of itself. You cannot tell me that "five minutes passed by just now" unless you first describe for me the environment in which you observed that time pass. Take for instance, a fictional spaceship traveling at near light speed. You ride the ship to the nearest star and then come back to earth. For you, since you traveled so fast, the trip lasted just under eight years. But you were moving at near lightspeed, so to you, eight years just went by. But for those back on earth, many centuries have passed. You are eight years older, but you return to an earth that has seen centuries pass.

Now, science tells us that the expansion of the universe at the instant of "the big bang" was perhaps MANY times the speed of light. If you were traveling on this cosmic debris, in a few minutes, the universe formed.

HOWEVER, were you somehow standing at the edge of the universe watching this happen, these "few minutes" took millions or billions of years to pass by.

So, when you ask how old the earth (and everything else) is, I must ask you: "From what and whose perspective do you ask?"

I remain convinced that the earth is maybe 10,000 years old. I remain convinced that the earth is maybe 15 billion years old. I maintain that you can argue this point until we are all dead, and you will NEVER arrive at an answer that is anything more than "belief".

I remain convinced that God may very well be disapointed in the energy put into the argument, for the very reasons that Jim Parker has stated. Or, perhaps He is thrilled that we care enough TO argue about it.

And again, if you cannot speak in terms of space-time, you cannot address the question. Time, as you and I think of it, does not exist.