easy believism

[Edisons Wolf]

thanks for this.

Thank God for this. And his son Jesus Christ.

 

[stovebolts]

Again, this thread isn't about OSAS or OSNAS. It is about belief and salvation.

Actually, it's about easy believism. It's an extreme view of calvinistic doctrine (OSAS) that John Calvin himself would roll over in the grave had heard it today.

Easy believism simply means your life does not have to reflect a Godly lifestyle. No effort on the part of the person is required, and any effort on the individual is mired in total depravity as worthless rags. In other words, any attempt to better oneself in Christ is considered a work.

Easy believism pits grace against works and faith takes on the same character as believing. Mixed with the idea of total depravity, we are helpless and are stuck in apathy.
NiV
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

The above passage is a picture of easy believism. He believes Jesus is the Son of God and throws himself down in worship begging, dont torture me.

This is not the worship the Father desires.

Luke 18:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

The message of Jesus has always been a message of repentance. To have the desire to please the Father by being obedient, not out of fear, but instead motivated by the Holy Spirit through love is not works based salvation. Rather, it is relational to our relationship with our Father.

We are saved by faith, not by our works, but rather grace. But we have purpose.
NiV
Ephesians 2:10. For we are God’s handiwork,created in Christ Jesus to do good works,which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[Edisons Wolf]

Actually, it's about easy believism. It's an extreme view of calvinistic doctrine (OSAS) that John Calvin himself would roll over in the grave had heard it today.

Easy believism simply means your life does not have to reflect a Godly lifestyle. No effort on the part of the person is required, and any effort on the individual is mired in total depravity as worthless rags. In other words, any attempt to better oneself in Christ is considered a work.

Easy believism pits grace against works and faith takes on the same character as believing. Mixed with the idea of total depravity, we are helpless and are stuck in apathy.
NiV
Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

The above passage is a picture of easy believism. He believes Jesus is the Son of God and throws himself down in worship begging, dont torture me.

This is not the worship the Father desires.

Luke 18:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

The message of Jesus has always been a message of repentance. To have the desire to please the Father by being obedient, not out of fear, but instead motivated by the Holy Spirit through love is not works based salvation. Rather, it is relational to our relationship with our Father.

We are saved by faith, not by our works, but rather grace. But we have purpose.
NiV
Ephesians 2:10. For we are God’s handiwork,created in Christ Jesus to do good works,which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I see what you're saying and yet, belief saves. Not work.
Some people who aren't really in Christ are those easy believers. They think , if I wear a cross and say I believe in Jesus I'm good to go. Then they are bad and go on sinning.

That's not belief that saves though. That's fun land worldly nonsense delusion that cripples and destroys.
However, belief is all that is required to come into Christ. Because Jesus did all the work for us on the cross. And our faith in that and our being in Christ occurs because it all started off with God the father giving his grace to the world as a free gift that would bear salvation to the world through the sacrifice of his son for all the sins of the world that would be taken upon him on the cross.
Being Jesus was God the father, in essence, literally, God who set the law of righteousness and the penalty for sin in the beginning, reworked that covenant law into a new covenant. Where the former penalty was paid in full by himself, as Jesus. He took back in other words what was the first law of sin and redemption. And he put in its place the covenant that said, all you have to do is believe you are a sinner. Believe you can renounce your sinful nature and ways, and believe in and on myself/my son, who you can cast all your past transgressions upon as that perpetual sacrificial lamb upon which those sins can be laid, and they will be washed clean by the blood that covers them for eternity never to be remembered again.
And now, washed clean you come into Christ as a new creation washed clean and always covered for your future transgressions by that blood, and the advocacy on your behalf should you slip up and sin because Jesus is our advocate with the Father. In other words, at least as I read it, God knows who are truly repentant and receptive to the new covenant and as such he knows when we do sin it isn't because we're that aforementioned fun land worldly in name only poser who thinks to play at what is often called, Pascal's wager.
That's why Jesus said, he knows his sheep by name and we know him and we follow him.
Wolves, the fun land type, in sheep's clothing don't fool God.

Having faith saves. And after we are indwelt with the holy spirit we're new creations. So we don't have those desires as that old self to be part of this world and sin. We are led to do righteous things. We endure this world through the leading of the holy spirit and in the end we are with the father.
We carry the protection and the wisdom to navigate the world within us. We are led to do good work because of the righteous leading that guides us toward that .
It isn't that work that saves us. Good works are a result of being indwelt and saved. Not a means of becoming indwelt and saved.

It doesn't get any simpler than John 3:16 and this, Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

 

[Edisons Wolf]

Romans 11

There's just so much to share. It's very exciting.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I never did like the term easy believism. I think it's the same as the "cheap grace" idea. I don't like that term either.

What we should do is look at what the totality of the NT has to say about belief in Jesus. It's not about a single verse but the whole council.

It's believing easy? Depends on how one defines that. I say yes. Yes because God does most of the work. He enables us to believe and He gives us the faith to believe. We're empowered by the HS to live unto Christ. Apart from Christ, we can do nothing. Sounds pretty easy to me.

Of course in reality, it's not truly easy. First, it cost Jesus His life. He went through a torturous death of pain and agony. In the end, He defeated sin and death on my behalf. And I myself have been crucified with Him and I died. I was raised with Him too. Bought with a price. I'm to honor God with my body and my mind. I am no longer living but it's Christ, living in me!

But not only that, we are known to be His disciples (as opposed to NOT being one) by the way we love each other (in the body) and how we love others (in general). Do we have a servant's heart? Do we (being dead to ourselves) live unto others in the name of Christ? Do we obey the commands of Christ? (if so we are doing so in the power of the Spirit and not of ourselves).

So, believing is demonstrated in how we respond to the teachings of Christ and how we follow (obey). I do what Christ teaches (or try at least) because I love the Master and desire to follow Him. My life is NOT my own.

Now, all I've said above is not from my head, but from the Word of God. If anyone lives outside of the teachings of Christ, they are not followers. If not followers, they are not Believers. If not Believers, they are not saved.

Believers are Followers. Followers follow. That is the same as saying they imitate Christ. Not by human power or will but by the Power of the Spirit of God.

Receiving a gift is easy. You just accept it. Yet it's more than just holding the gift in one's hands. To accept it isn't to say put it on the shelf and go your own way. (that would be the same as not having the gift) No. It's to accept the gift, is to unwrap it, and live a life immersed in that gift (and all that such entails).

 

[Christ_empowered]

easy believism is a rather dismissive term, isn't it?

I think maybe a return to an older distinction, between false conversions and genuine conversions, would be better, more helpful, more appropriate. It would also put the emphasis on the individual -believer- and his or her walk with The Lord, rather than tearing down entire groups of believers, simply because they believe a bit differently.

Jesus saves. Doctrine doesn't, churches don't. Doctrine can help us mere mortals see Jesus more correctly, but it can also be a major hindrance. Churches, on a good day, do good work in the community and facilitate The Lord's work in Christian's lives, but there again, one often hears horror stories of "church people" doing more harm than good. Its happened to my family, and to me, too.

 

[Tessa]

I never did like the term easy believism. I think it's the same as the "cheap grace" idea. I don't like that term either.

What we should do is look at what the totality of the NT has to say about belief in Jesus. It's not about a single verse but the whole council.

It's believing easy? Depends on how one defines that. I say yes. Yes because God does most of the work. He enables us to believe and He gives us the faith to believe. We're empowered by the HS to live unto Christ. Apart from Christ, we can do nothing. Sounds pretty easy to me.

Of course in reality, it's not truly easy. First, it cost Jesus His life. He went through a torturous death of pain and agony. In the end, He defeated sin and death on my behalf. And I myself have been crucified with Him and I died. I was raised with Him too. Bought with a price. I'm to honor God with my body and my mind. I am no longer living but it's Christ, living in me!

But not only that, we are known to be His disciples (as opposed to NOT being one) by the way we love each other (in the body) and how we love others (in general). Do we have a servant's heart? Do we (being dead to ourselves) live unto others in the name of Christ? Do we obey the commands of Christ? (if so we are doing so in the power of the Spirit and not of ourselves).

So, believing is demonstrated in how we respond to the teachings of Christ and how we follow (obey). I do what Christ teaches (or try at least) because I love the Master and desire to follow Him. My life is NOT my own.

Now, all I've said above is not from my head, but from the Word of God. If anyone lives outside of the teachings of Christ, they are not followers. If not followers, they are not Believers. If not Believers, they are not saved.

Believers are Followers. Followers follow. That is the same as saying they imitate Christ. Not by human power or will but by the Power of the Spirit of God.

Receiving a gift is easy. You just accept it. Yet it's more than just holding the gift in one's hands. To accept it isn't to say put it on the shelf and go your own way. (that would be the same as not having the gift) No. It's to accept the gift, is to unwrap it, and live a life immersed in that gift (and all that such entails).

Papa Zoom I love this post. I could read it over and over again. Worded so well !

 

[Edisons Wolf]

I've never heard of the cheap grace idea. That sounds so insulting to God being grace is his providence.

 

[Christ_empowered]

well....I will say that some Protestant groups in the US (I don't know about other nations) have basically created their own "Jesus," and this "Jesus" makes -some- leaders/teachers/preachers rich. Its like that old Depeche Mode song...Personal Jesus (check out the Johnny Cash cover, btw...its amazing).

 

[ezra]

easy believism is a rather dismissive term, isn't it?

I think maybe a return to an older distinction, between false conversions and genuine conversions, would be better, more helpful, more appropriate. It would also put the emphasis on the individual -believer- and his or her walk with The Lord, rather than tearing down entire groups of believers, simply because they believe a bit differently.

Jesus saves. Doctrine doesn't, churches don't. Doctrine can help us mere mortals see Jesus more correctly, but it can also be a major hindrance. Churches, on a good day, do good work in the community and facilitate The Lord's work in Christian's lives, but there again, one often hears horror stories of "church people" doing more harm than good. Its happened to my family, and to me, too.

i think you hit the nail on the head the E.B is meant to be a insult when some one disagrees with a belief

 

[Papa Zoom]

easy believism is a rather dismissive term, isn't it?

I think maybe a return to an older distinction, between false conversions and genuine conversions, would be better, more helpful, more appropriate. It would also put the emphasis on the individual -believer- and his or her walk with The Lord, rather than tearing down entire groups of believers, simply because they believe a bit differently.

Jesus saves. Doctrine doesn't, churches don't. Doctrine can help us mere mortals see Jesus more correctly, but it can also be a major hindrance. Churches, on a good day, do good work in the community and facilitate The Lord's work in Christian's lives, but there again, one often hears horror stories of "church people" doing more harm than good. Its happened to my family, and to me, too.

It certainly can be dismissive. I don't think it's always meant to be that way. It's a term that was coined in response to the idea that being saved simply is a matter of saying a prayer, getting baptized, and then living as if nothing just happened. In other words, no life change. It's a response to antinomianism.

We are fully saved apart from any works. That's a slam dunk.
But, we're also saved unto good works. Also a slam dunk.
Not to be outdone, along comes works and says, "yeah, but works are evidence of salvation" - True and also a slam dunk.

Salvation process:
1 Get Saved.
2 Get Busy.
3 Exercise Gifts.
*All in humility and a servant's heart driven by love and fueled by the Holy Spirit.

A lot more can be said but being a Christian isn't a passive experience.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I'm...I don't know. I have mixed thoughts on this. I've been to megachurches that probably fall into what many would consider "easy believeism," and..its not a good thing. It isn't just the questionable doctrine, its the congregants who are no different from the unbelievers in the community, its the churches that rake in all kinds of money but don't do very much for the community, on and on it goes. you shall know a tree by the fruit it bears...seems appropriate in this context. and yet...

at the -church- level, what are they to do? I'm reminded of Billy Graham and his crusades, all the souls he tried to win for The Lord. -nothing- against Rev.Graham, don't get me wrong here, but...seriously; for all the people who made a "decision for Christ" at Rev.Graham's prompting, how many of those ended up being transformed by Christ?

I just...don't know. At this point, I'm reminded of bits and pieces of some David Wilkerson material (I think written in the 70s) I read over a while ago. He wrote about a "remnent" of genuine believers, from -all- denominations, who would support each other, even as much of the organized church fell into sin and straight up apostasy. From what I remember of the material, a good bit of what he wrote about is now coming to pass, especially in the US and in other secularized, affluent nations. Kind of...disconcerting. I guess that was the point?

I guess I'm saying...at a -personal- level, I'm praying to get my eyes fixed on Christ, and Him Crucified. Ripping other Christians to shreds is not Christ-like, and its even worse when one starts tearing down entire groups. I think there are better, more civil, more Christ-like ways to have conversations about doctrine than by labeling "Those People" with "easy believeism."

 

[Papa Zoom]

I'm...I don't know. I have mixed thoughts on this. I've been to megachurches that probably fall into what many would consider "easy believeism," and..its not a good thing. It isn't just the questionable doctrine, its the congregants who are no different from the unbelievers in the community, its the churches that rake in all kinds of money but don't do very much for the community, on and on it goes. you shall know a tree by the fruit it bears...seems appropriate in this context. and yet...

at the -church- level, what are they to do? I'm reminded of Billy Graham and his crusades, all the souls he tried to win for The Lord. -nothing- against Rev.Graham, don't get me wrong here, but...seriously; for all the people who made a "decision for Christ" at Rev.Graham's prompting, how many of those ended up being transformed by Christ?

I just...don't know. At this point, I'm reminded of bits and pieces of some David Wilkerson material (I think written in the 70s) I read over a while ago. He wrote about a "remnent" of genuine believers, from -all- denominations, who would support each other, even as much of the organized church fell into sin and straight up apostasy. From what I remember of the material, a good bit of what he wrote about is now coming to pass, especially in the US and in other secularized, affluent nations. Kind of...disconcerting. I guess that was the point?

I guess I'm saying...at a -personal- level, I'm praying to get my eyes fixed on Christ, and Him Crucified. Ripping other Christians to shreds is not Christ-like, and its even worse when one starts tearing down entire groups. I think there are better, more civil, more Christ-like ways to have conversations about doctrine than by labeling "Those People" with "easy believeism."

The problem is, there is no such Christian as an "easy" believer. There are fans of Christ, and then there are followers. Followers are actual Christ Ones (Christians) and are true believers. Fans come and go.

 

[Christ_empowered]

this is true, but at -every- church one has the wheat and the tares, wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. For whatever reasons, some of the most questionable "Christianity" is now wildly popular (and profitable), at least in the modern US. "Easy believeism" has an insulting tone to it, and Christians are not called to judge other believers. We -are- called to use discernment and test what we are taught against Scripture, but we are not called to belittle and insult others. Having said that...

here locally, the megachurches, in particular, are having a -very- rough season...but its OK, because they're "conservative Christians," etc. I -do- think "easy believeism" is an accurate description of -some- of what I've seen around me, but...at this point, I'm thinking that the best thing for me to do is focus on Christ and my walk with The Lord, pray for those in darkness, and just...let my light shine, as best I can.

 

[ezra]

this is true, but at -every- church one has the wheat and the tares, wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. For whatever reasons, some of the most questionable "Christianity" is now wildly popular (and profitable), at least in the modern US. "Easy believeism" has an insulting tone to it, and Christians are not called to judge other believers. We -are- called to use discernment and test what we are taught against Scripture, but we are not called to belittle and insult others. Having said that...

here locally, the megachurches, in particular, are having a -very- rough season...but its OK, because they're "conservative Christians," etc. I -do- think "easy believeism" is an accurate description of -some- of what I've seen around me, but...at this point, I'm thinking that the best thing for me to do is focus on Christ and my walk with The Lord, pray for those in darkness, and just...let my light shine, as best I can.

for the problems your physc tells you have.. you sure have some deep knowledge .. you could turn your past and what you understand to a ministry .. you can reach those who other can not

 

[MCoop]

I never did like the term easy believism. I think it's the same as the "cheap grace" idea. I don't like that term either.

What we should do is look at what the totality of the NT has to say about belief in Jesus. It's not about a single verse but the whole council.

It's believing easy? Depends on how one defines that. I say yes. Yes because God does most of the work. He enables us to believe and He gives us the faith to believe. We're empowered by the HS to live unto Christ. Apart from Christ, we can do nothing. Sounds pretty easy to me.

Of course in reality, it's not truly easy. First, it cost Jesus His life. He went through a torturous death of pain and agony. In the end, He defeated sin and death on my behalf. And I myself have been crucified with Him and I died. I was raised with Him too. Bought with a price. I'm to honor God with my body and my mind. I am no longer living but it's Christ, living in me!

But not only that, we are known to be His disciples (as opposed to NOT being one) by the way we love each other (in the body) and how we love others (in general). Do we have a servant's heart? Do we (being dead to ourselves) live unto others in the name of Christ? Do we obey the commands of Christ? (if so we are doing so in the power of the Spirit and not of ourselves).

So, believing is demonstrated in how we respond to the teachings of Christ and how we follow (obey). I do what Christ teaches (or try at least) because I love the Master and desire to follow Him. My life is NOT my own.

Now, all I've said above is not from my head, but from the Word of God. If anyone lives outside of the teachings of Christ, they are not followers. If not followers, they are not Believers. If not Believers, they are not saved.

Believers are Followers. Followers follow. That is the same as saying they imitate Christ. Not by human power or will but by the Power of the Spirit of God.

Receiving a gift is easy. You just accept it. Yet it's more than just holding the gift in one's hands. To accept it isn't to say put it on the shelf and go your own way. (that would be the same as not having the gift) No. It's to accept the gift, is to unwrap it, and live a life immersed in that gift (and all that such entails).

I agree with everything said. And also that the term “easy believism” is a response to antinomianism. But more importantly, those who attack “easy believism” also attack Gods grace and the work of Christ in salvation by going to the extreme of placing ones works as a means to justification. On top of that, they also attack Gods Word, specifically Paul’s letters. What you posted is rt on Papa Zoom, but those pushing the term easy believism do not agree with you.. it is why eternal life and it’s security in Christ and many other doctrines pertaining to Gods Sovereign grace in salvation are fought against

 

[Garion]

Belevism? Really?

 

[Razeontherock]

alrighty if any one else has more to post feel free .i had never heard of easy beleiveism ..i have heard of cheapened things man brings up thanks to all for the input Grace

Grace is never cheap.
Living a life of Faith is never easy.

 

[Razeontherock]

If your brother or your dad says you need to get your car checked out and you believe him then you'll make efforts to make it happen. Set up an appointment, save money for taking it in, or at the very least not use the car as much. Action should follow belief. The same should be true with believing God. But somehow we get stuck with two sets of belief. The first set being to believe in God existing, and to believe in His promises and warnings (at least some of them). The second set is to believe what He says, and in this way I think there is no mistake that we are like children. We believe God will help us but not believe that we need follow His instruction.

I think belief is a bigger word then we give credit to it. And the challenge shouldn't be about b lie fish being weak, but challenge us if we really do believe.

I know from my life that too often I follow my own reasoning instead of God's instruction, so I assume this is true of most people. It's not that believing is a weak thing it's that we are not really believing, because we don't act on it.

In Exodus, those that "believed God" brought their cattle in from the field and were saved. Those that didn't believe God did nothing, and their cattle perished.

Faith without works is dead.

 

[Razeontherock]

I've never heard of the cheap grace idea. That sounds so insulting to God being grace is his providence.

The idea is when people insult the Grace of God, so the phrase can be useful