Eating His Flesh and drinking His blood

[Cornelius]

:amen

That is why I can always still talk to you and not to some others here. I have really not found a contentious spirit in you. I believe we disagree on some matters, because we both sincerely understand things in different ways and not because our starting point is "evil" or that we plan to be disagreeable. I use to be a Baptist and I think you might share that background with me, because I see some of what I believed and taught, in your posts. I really believe you are sincere in your walk. Blessings C

 

[Mysteryman]

Have it your way brother.

Hi C.

Its not my way Cornelius. Its the way of the Word of God. It is also the will of God. I Corinth. 11:20 is clear. And not only that, but we christians make up the body of Christ, we are that one bread. We no longer take part, we partake, which means give out.

We are to walk by faith and not by sight.

Jesus fulfilled the pasover meal. Which was a part of the law. The law has been fulfilled ! There is no need to continue to do the law. If you do, you have fallen from grace.

 

[glorydaz]

:amen

That is why I can always still talk to you and not to some others here. I have really not found a contentious spirit in you. I believe we disagree on some matters, because we both sincerely understand things in different ways and not because our starting point is "evil" or that we plan to be disagreeable. I use to be a Baptist and I think you might share that background with me, because I see some of what I believed and taught, in your posts. I really believe you are sincere in your walk. Blessings C

Thank you, brother, that was very kind. My background isn't Baptist, although I did attend a Baptist church for a couple of years when I was living out in the middle of a desert. :biglaugh

I find myself in agreement with much of what you post. This certainly being one of them. You've done a good job in the midst of very trying circumstances, and I admire your standing firm, and putting forth some great teaching while you were at it.

 

[glorydaz]

Have it your way brother.

Hi C.

Its not my way Cornelius. Its the way of the Word of God. It is also the will of God. I Corinth. 11:20 is clear. And not only that, but we christians make up the body of Christ, we are that one bread. We no longer take part, we partake, which means give out.

We are to walk by faith and not by sight.

Jesus fulfilled the pasover meal. Which was a part of the law. The law has been fulfilled ! There is no need to continue to do the law. If you do, you have fallen from grace.

Partake means give out? Hmm...

 

[Mysteryman]

Have it your way brother.

Hi C.

Its not my way Cornelius. Its the way of the Word of God. It is also the will of God. I Corinth. 11:20 is clear. And not only that, but we christians make up the body of Christ, we are that one bread. We no longer take part, we partake, which means give out.

We are to walk by faith and not by sight.

Jesus fulfilled the pasover meal. Which was a part of the law. The law has been fulfilled ! There is no need to continue to do the law. If you do, you have fallen from grace.

Partake means give out? Hmm...

Hi

Yes -- it is the greek word - "antilambano" - which means having received to return - I Tim. 6:2

I Corinth. 10:17 - "partakers" is the greek word - "metecho" - to hold in readiness ------ Having the same care one for another, so that there is equality. II Corinth. 8:14 & 15. And when we give, we give both carnal needs as well as spiritual needs - Romans 15:27 - "Partakers" - give out.

 

[glorydaz]

Partake means give out? Hmm...

Hi

Yes -- it is the greek word - "antilambano" - which means having received to return - I Tim. 6:2

I Corinth. 10:17 - "partakers" is the greek word - "metecho" - to hold in readiness ------ Having the same care one for another, so that there is equality. II Corinth. 8:14 & 15. And when we give, we give both carnal needs as well as spiritual needs - Romans 15:27 - "Partakers" - give out.

Quite the fancy bit of footwork, but way off base. :nag

This verse says "to lay hold of" the benefits. Period.

2And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.

antilambano...Definition
to lay hold of, hold fast to anything
to take a person or thing in order as it were to be held, to take to, embrace
to help, to be a partaker of, partake of (the benefits of the services rendered by the slaves)


There is no "holding in readiness" implied or stated in this verse.
To partake is quite straight forward. To take part in... such as "All men partake of the common bounties of providence".

For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

metecho...Definition
to be or become partaker
to partake

This verse has nothing to do with "partaking".

But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

Again, the Gentiles have been made partakers......what follows after has nothing to do with the word partakers. Nothing to do with being partakers means a "giving out".
The meaning of the word doesn't change according to the sentence it's in.
A word does not take on another meaning because of the words around it.

It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

 

[Vic C.]

No it does not contradict it, it just do not say what you say it is saying

Hi C.

Which tells me that you prefer your own private interpretation, instead of the truth. I Corinth. 11:20 is a clear verse of scripture !

Not to eat, means "Not to eat" !

Yes, it is very clear and C nailed it... you didn't. Honestly, it is you who is interjecting private interpretation. There isn't a command anywhere that tells us we should not partake of the Lord's Supper. Paul had direct revelation concerning this ordinance and nowhere does it say we should not honor it any more.

1 Cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.

It was good enough for Paul and the Corinthians and it is certainly good enough for us too. :yes

That is unless you believe Jesus has already returned. Then and only then is the Supper (remembrance) complete.

BTW, this is from Adam Clarke: ( http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=011 )

Verse 20. This is not to eat the Lord's Supper.
They did not come together to eat the Lord's Supper exclusively, which they should have done, and not have made it a part of an ordinary meal.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Vic : "it is very clear and C nailed it... "

Hi Vic

Yes, you are correct, C. did nail Christ back on the cross. > I Corinth. 11:26 - "show the Lord's death"

I Corinth. 11:20 is clear by the apostle Paul. "When ye come together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper" (KJV).


We are to walk by faith, not by sight.

We are the one bread, the body of Christ. We no longer take part, we now partake = give out.

 

[francisdesales]

Good way to answer, except that you are taking those words and viewing them by themselves and not in context with the whole revelation of the Bible. We are told not to do that, because Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth; and not just one verse or concept. You have to add to your understanding that Jesus always spoke in parables to the masses Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them:

All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them: Mat 13:34

Clearly, Cornelius, you do not want to give up this idea that Jesus did not ALWAYS speak in parables. Matthew 13:34 refers to the sum of teachings in Matthew 13. Was Jesus just speaking metaphorically when we are to love our enemies? How about the Beatitudes? Maybe it IS OK to look at other women with lust in our hearts, because THAT was a parable, too???? How about the teachings regarding the rich?

There are numerous teachings that are straight forward and not in parable. EVERYTHING was not LITERALLY in parables! You nullify the Word of God to maintain your tradition of men. To continue to make this claim avoids the Scriptures that YOU YOURSELF point out in Psalm 119:160.

In your effort to disregard Jesus' words that you refuse to believe, you are painting yourself into a corner.

I understand why you WANT to claim that Jesus spoke everything in parables. That way, you can ignore the clear words of Jesus and insert your own meaning. Naturally, this begs the question - why bother reading ANY of the Words of Sacred Scriptures, since "nothing" of Jesus is purported to be clear, but it is all in parables, subject to the whims of the reader/listener? I would think that God's revelation to mankind was more solidly entrenched then such subjective interpretations.

Now either God made a mistake there and should not have written "nothing" when it was not so, or we have to adjust our thinking and accept that as truth and all this will be cleared up.

"Nothing" does not need to literally mean absolutely nothing. It can be universal, but it can be refering to a very limited application or set of items. By reading other parts of the Scriptures, we can ascertain that Matthew 13 CANNOT mean a universal "always" in refering to the Lord's words to the public.

I truly, truly understand why no Catholic is allowed to think outside their box.

Catholics throughout the centuries have gone outside of the box in exploring theology. You go too far because we refuse to twist Scriptures to rationalize things? Jesus said what He said in John 6, verifying that He indeed MEANT His Body when He said "THIS IS MY BODY", "TAKE AND EAT IT"... Same with the cup, FILLED WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NEW COVENANT.

What I "truly, truly" don't understand is why some protesters claiming to follow the Bible literally suddenly refuse to when they get to John 6...

You will not be able to understand what I am saying...

I understand what you are saying, Cornelius, but it is build upon sand. Jesus didn't speak every word to the public in parables. You misunderstand Matthew 13 - or you are just looking for a verse to deny the power of John 6 because you don't WANT to understand the Scriptures as they clearly state - UNLESS you eat my FLESH, (not my word), you will not have eternal life. That's what the Word says.

you will HAVE to find a way around it (and you will ) because of the simple fact that if I am correct (and I am) than the RCC has a wrong take on it.

You have not proven one iota that claim. You are the one in error. Of ANY of the mysteries that we believe as Catholic Christians - Trinity, the Incarnation, the Church, etc., THIS MYSTERY has the best and most certain Scriptural backing. It is your understanding that is faulty, for whatever the reason.

And that possibility is too terrible for a Catholic to even ponder. So you guys WILL fight to preserve your doctrine. I really understand it, sad as it is. This is not just a Catholic thing, most people will defend their denominational views to the bitter end,

As you are now and your own denominational view, even in the face of "truly, truly", words NEVER spoken by Jesus when speaking a parable. Cornelius, you are human and you are in error, defending your denominational point of view.

Regards

 

[Cornelius]

All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them: Mat 13:34

All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes;.... and .......without a parable spake he nothing unto them: Mat 13:34

These things........AND ............all the others too.

 

[glorydaz]

Quote Vic : "it is very clear and C nailed it... "

Hi Vic

Yes, you are correct, C. did nail Christ back on the cross. > I Corinth. 11:26 - "show the Lord's death"

I Corinth. 11:20 is clear by the apostle Paul. "When ye come together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper" (KJV).


We are to walk by faith, not by sight.

We are the one bread, the body of Christ. We no longer take part, we now partake = give out.

LOL You just can't stand to see the Corinthian Church being rebuked, can you? :biglaugh
They were turning the Breaking of Bread into a drunken picnic. They were babes and couldn't do anything right.

It really is a sign of spiritual immaturity to claim Christians are nailing Christ to the cross by doing the very thing He asked us to do in remembrance of Him. I'm thinking you need to start with Christianity 101 and begin with line one...please, for your own good.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus is the bread of life....the bread we're to eat is not Jesus' actual body, but a representation of His body. We celebrate birthdays with a cake in memory of one's birth. The person isn't actually born each year when we eat a piece of cake. We partake in remembrance.... :yes

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Vic : "it is very clear and C nailed it... "

Hi Vic

Yes, you are correct, C. did nail Christ back on the cross. > I Corinth. 11:26 - "show the Lord's death"

I Corinth. 11:20 is clear by the apostle Paul. "When ye come together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper" (KJV).


We are to walk by faith, not by sight.

We are the one bread, the body of Christ. We no longer take part, we now partake = give out.

LOL You just can't stand to see the Corinthian Church being rebuked, can you? :biglaugh
They were turning the Breaking of Bread into a drunken picnic. They were babes and couldn't do anything right.

It really is a sign of spiritual immaturity to claim Christians are nailing Christ to the cross by doing the very thing He asked us to do in remembrance of Him. I'm thinking you need to start with Christianity 101 and begin with line one...please, for your own good.

Hi glorydaz

Paul said that there were heresies among them, and that when they came together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. We have these same heresies within the church today.

Most people are so indoctrinated into what they beleive, they have become so blinded, that they can not even read a clear verse of scripture anymore. "This is not to eat the Lord's supper" < means what it says, and says what it means.

The RCC believes that they "are" eating the Lord's body and that they "are" drinking the Lord's blood.

Others believe that doing a ritual, pretending that I Corinth. 11:20 does not exist, read down further and just read what their eyes want to see - "do this in remembrance of me". What you see, is what you do !

Those who are mature in the scriptures, read the whole context and skip over nothing. Right down to clearly understanding, that if you do a literal Lord's supper, you show his death. Which is nailing Christ back on the cross.

Christ has died, been buried, and has risen and ascended. There is no need to put him back on the cross and show his death again, and again, and again !

Paul didn't mind if they came together to eat, as evidenced by verse 33 in I Corinth. chapter 11.

What Paul was trying to clear up for them, is that they were not caring for the members of the church. Which is for the most part, the same sad case today. You go to church, you pray, sing , leave a little money eat a morsel of bread and a sip of juice or wine, and depart. < This is not caring for one another. And this is not the purpose for coming together ! We are to come together for the worse, not the better.

We are to operate the nine manifestations of the Spirit. We are to take care of one another, carnally and spiritually. The Word tells us to be especially good unto the household of God. Yet, most churchs only want to do ceremonies and sing, and take your money and send you on your way and say bless you. What good is it, if there is a need in the church, and they never ask if there is a need, and how they can take care of that need ?

What good is it to support missionaries, who go out in the field, when the members themselves are not taken care of ? Talk about hypocrisy !

I know that some churches do a better job than others. And I am not grouping them in all together. However, that does not mean that they can't do better, and grow more spiritually.

WE are the one bread = We are the one body of Christ !

We do not eat and drink the body of Christ, which we are ! ! Read chapter 12 it talks about the body of Christ which we all are a part.

When one member suffers , we all suffer. When one member be honoured , all the members rejoice

I Corinth. 12:13 - "We have been "made" to drink into one Spirit" < Its not a choice !

We were baptized into one body - I Corinth. 12:13 < Its not a choice !

WE choose righteousness "after" we were chosen, not before ! No man could be made righteous by the law ! We were saved by grace and not of works. You can try and appear righteous as much as you want too, but you yourself are not made righteous. God made you righteous in Christ. God placed you in the body where it pleases him. You do not have a choice where you are in the body of Christ !

And if one thinks they are showing themselves to be righteous by doing the Lord's supper, they deceive themselves , and others . For whoever follows your example will fall in the ditch with you. You will be held accountable for leading them into the ditch.

WE are the body of Christ, and you do not eat the members of the body of Christ !. We have been made to drink. We don't drink of our own free will. We were made righteous IN Christ, not of ourselves ! Least any man should boast !

Agape love , never fails. But what is agape love ? Leaving a few dollars in the can at the entrance of the door, not knowing what this money is to be spent on ? ! < This is blind faith people ! God wants you to know what your giving is for, and its purpose. The minister is worthy of his labour, and then giving starts with the household of God. To meet the needs of the members so that there is equality. A healthy church is one who cares for the members. An unhealthy church is one who only cares to do rituals and ceremonies.

Bless

 

[glorydaz]

Paul said that there were heresies among them, and that when they came together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. We have these same heresies within the church today.

Most people are so indoctrinated into what they beleive, they have become so blinded, that they can not even read a clear verse of scripture anymore. "This is not to eat the Lord's supper" < means what it says, and says what it means

.
You're right...you can't read clear scripture. :biglaugh

Paul didn't mind if they came together to eat, as evidenced by verse 33 in I Corinth. chapter 11.

What Paul was trying to clear up for them, is that they were not caring for the members of the church.

And if one thinks they are showing themselves to be righteous by doing the Lord's supper, they deceive themselves , and others . For whoever follows your example will fall in the ditch with you. You will be held accountable for leading them into the ditch.

People don't partake of the Lord's Supper to show themselves righteous.
I'm thinking that thought comes from a prideful heart.

Agape love , never fails. But what is agape love ? Leaving a few dollars in the can at the entrance of the door, not knowing what this money is to be spent on ? ! < This is blind faith people ! God wants you to know what your giving is for, and its purpose. The minister is worthy of his labour, and then giving starts with the household of God. To meet the needs of the members so that there is equality. A healthy church is one who cares for the members. An unhealthy church is one who only cares to do rituals and ceremonies.

There is nothing I hate more than a presumptuous, judgmental, self-righteous man who claims to love the Lord. That said....how dare you insinuate I throw a few dollars in a can not knowing what it's spent on? We don't have a "minister"...all the money in the can goes to our missionaries. You continue to prove over and over again that your are carnal...just like your cohorts in the Corinthian Church that needed constant rebuking from Paul. You obviously missed the message Paul was teaching, because you need more milk, and you are too proud to listen to anyone's sound teaching. You're so busy judging other people you can't pick the beam out of your own eye. You'd better pray for a healing in that area...God may have mercy on you after all. :yes

 

[Mysteryman]

Paul said that there were heresies among them, and that when they came together into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. We have these same heresies within the church today.

Most people are so indoctrinated into what they beleive, they have become so blinded, that they can not even read a clear verse of scripture anymore. "This is not to eat the Lord's supper" < means what it says, and says what it means

.
You're right...you can't read clear scripture. :biglaugh

Paul didn't mind if they came together to eat, as evidenced by verse 33 in I Corinth. chapter 11.

What Paul was trying to clear up for them, is that they were not caring for the members of the church.

And if one thinks they are showing themselves to be righteous by doing the Lord's supper, they deceive themselves , and others . For whoever follows your example will fall in the ditch with you. You will be held accountable for leading them into the ditch.

People don't partake of the Lord's Supper to show themselves righteous.
I'm thinking that thought comes from a prideful heart.
[quote:20wcprod]Agape love , never fails. But what is agape love ? Leaving a few dollars in the can at the entrance of the door, not knowing what this money is to be spent on ? ! < This is blind faith people ! God wants you to know what your giving is for, and its purpose. The minister is worthy of his labour, and then giving starts with the household of God. To meet the needs of the members so that there is equality. A healthy church is one who cares for the members. An unhealthy church is one who only cares to do rituals and ceremonies.

There is nothing I hate more than a presumptuous, judgmental, self-righteous man who claims to love the Lord. That said....how dare you insinuate I throw a few dollars in a can not knowing what it's spent on? We don't have a "minister"...all the money in the can goes to our missionaries. You continue to prove over and over again that your are carnal...just like your cohorts in the Corinthian Church that needed constant rebuking from Paul. You obviously missed the message Paul was teaching, because you need more milk, and you are too proud to listen to anyone's sound teaching. You're so busy judging other people you can't pick the beam out of your own eye. You'd better pray for a healing in that area...God may have mercy on you after all. :yes[/quote:20wcprod]


Hi glorydaz

You don't have a pastor ? Why not ? How can your assembly function properly without a Pastor ?

Who is guiding you spiritually without a pastor ?

I don't live in Corinth. so I don't have any , as you say , cohorts in the Corinthian church.

And I was not judging you , as it seems that you took my comments that way. Please read the whole context of my posts.

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz

You don't have a pastor ? Why not ? How can your assembly function properly without a Pastor ?

Who is guiding you spiritually without a pastor ?

I don't live in Corinth. so I don't have any , as you say , cohorts in the Corinthian church.

And I was not judging you , as it seems that you took my comments that way. Please read the whole context of my posts.

Actually, you were judging everyone.

No, I don't believe in a one man led assembly. We have elders and different brothers get up and minister to the body of believers. The Holy Spirit is guiding me, and we have more spiritual maturity in our elders than any one man can have. It's a New Testament assembly. We're missions oriented...look up Shield of Faith Mission International on the web if you're curious. We meet in homes and small rented buildings all over the United States and across the world.

Here ya go... http://www.sfmiusa.org/

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi glorydaz

You don't have a pastor ? Why not ? How can your assembly function properly without a Pastor ?

Who is guiding you spiritually without a pastor ?

I don't live in Corinth. so I don't have any , as you say , cohorts in the Corinthian church.

And I was not judging you , as it seems that you took my comments that way. Please read the whole context of my posts.

Actually, you were judging everyone.

No, I don't believe in a one man led assembly. We have elders and different brothers get up and minister to the body of believers. The Holy Spirit is guiding me, and we have more spiritual maturity in our elders than any one man can have. It's a New Testament assembly. We're missions oriented...look up Shield of Faith Mission International on the web if you're curious. We meet in homes and small rented buildings all over the United States and across the world.

Here ya go... http://www.sfmiusa.org/

Hi glorydaz

Thanks, I will look it up.

I agree with not building buidings to worship within. An elders are good. But in Ephesians Jesus did say that He gave Apostles , Prophets, Evangilists, Pastors, and Teachers for the edifying and building up of the body of Christ. Something to think about .

 

[francisdesales]

All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them: Mat 13:34

All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes;.... and .......without a parable spake he nothing unto them: Mat 13:34

These things........AND ............all the others too.

Did Jesus EVER say ANYTHING to be taken literally to the crowds????

A SINGLE WORD?

 

[Cornelius]

All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them: Mat 13:34

All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes;.... and .......without a parable spake he nothing unto them: Mat 13:34

These things........AND ............all the others too.

Did Jesus EVER say ANYTHING to be taken literally to the crowds????

A SINGLE WORD?

Brother you should give it up. You are not going to see this right now. I have no idea why you cannot but I am also not the one to show it to you : God is, and I pray that He will. So I pray in faith, and so He will. So do not worry,(not that you do) but just in case you did ......lol........God will take care of you and will show you what you need to know soon now. The tribulation is upon us and I have been praying for you to come out of religion and you will. Its just a matter of time.

I prayed for you because I love you as a brother and I know God wants you to be free.

blessings
C

 

[chestertonrules]

[quote="Cornelius
Brother you should give it up. You are not going to see this right now. C[/quote]


He can't see what isn't there.