Eating His Flesh and drinking His blood

[Cornelius]

[quote="Cornelius
Brother you should give it up. You are not going to see this right now. C

He can't see what isn't there.[/quote]
Hi, thank for reminding me, I will include you as well.

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz

Thanks, I will look it up.

I agree with not building buidings to worship within. An elders are good. But in Ephesians Jesus did say that He gave Apostles , Prophets, Evangilists, Pastors, and Teachers for the edifying and building up of the body of Christ. Something to think about .

Those would be included among the elders. One elder may be recognized as a shephard (Pastor), but that doesn't mean he is the "leader". One may have the gift of teaching, one may have the gift of comfort, etc. Each in the assembly has a gift that edifies the body. Hospitality, helps, exhortation....on and on. Some elders are sought out more than others for advice, some may do more teaching from the Word. It's truly a body ministry that enourages participation.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi glorydaz

Thanks, I will look it up.

I agree with not building buidings to worship within. An elders are good. But in Ephesians Jesus did say that He gave Apostles , Prophets, Evangilists, Pastors, and Teachers for the edifying and building up of the body of Christ. Something to think about .

Those would be included among the elders. One elder may be recognized as a shephard (Pastor), but that doesn't mean he is the "leader". One may have the gift of teaching, one may have the gift of comfort, etc. Each in the assembly has a gift that edifies the body. Hospitality, helps, exhortation....on and on. Some elders are sought out more than others for advice, some may do more teaching from the Word. It's truly a body ministry that enourages participation.

A Pastor is one who oversee's the flock that he has been entrusted with. This is a ministry given to him by God, and he is responsible to God for this. Many teach, but a "Teacher" is one who is responsible for that paticular ministry of teaching. And he is also a called out man of God, who is held accountable by God and unto God.

Either you have a Pastor or you don't. It could be that you have a pretend Pastor.

In the Church God has set an order within the Church. First Apostles, and secondly Prophets, thirdly teachers, then evangilists, then pastor's. Apostles have the highest responsibility towards God, then Prophets, then teachers, then evangilists, then pastors.

The evangilist Philip had Peter and John come in Acts 8. Peter and John represented Apostles and Prophets. They are the one's who laid hands on those who received the Holy Spirit into manifestation.

When an evangilist comes to one's town, the Pastor is under the evangilist. The evangilist is the one who preaches. Sometimes a teacher and an evangilist go together. The teacher would be over the evangilist. When the evangilist goes alone, then the evangilist is only responsible to the Lord. As was the case with Philip in Acts 8. Most of the time , but not all of the time, the ministers traveled together. Meaning more than one of them. A Pastor does not travel, he remains there to watch over the flock.

There appears to be a lack of a foundation of truth within the Church today. Not only with truth and understanding, but with leadership as well. Today there appears to be self made leadership running certain assemblies. Some have even made new offices, such as a pope, who resides as if he is Christ over seeing the church. As it is true, that no one man, other than Christ is over the church. The church has an order within it.

Something to think about.

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz

Thanks, I will look it up.

I agree with not building buidings to worship within. An elders are good. But in Ephesians Jesus did say that He gave Apostles , Prophets, Evangilists, Pastors, and Teachers for the edifying and building up of the body of Christ. Something to think about .

Those would be included among the elders. One elder may be recognized as a shephard (Pastor), but that doesn't mean he is the "leader". One may have the gift of teaching, one may have the gift of comfort, etc. Each in the assembly has a gift that edifies the body. Hospitality, helps, exhortation....on and on. Some elders are sought out more than others for advice, some may do more teaching from the Word. It's truly a body ministry that enourages participation.

A Pastor is one who oversee's the flock that he has been entrusted with. This is a ministry given to him by God, and he is responsible to God for this. Many teach, but a "Teacher" is one who is responsible for that paticular ministry of teaching. And he is also a called out man of God, who is held accountable by God and unto God.

Either you have a Pastor or you don't. It could be that you have a pretend Pastor.

In the Church God has set an order within the Church. First Apostles, and secondly Prophets, thirdly teachers, then evangilists, then pastor's. Apostles have the highest responsibility towards God, then Prophets, then teachers, then evangilists, then pastors.

The evangilist Philip had Peter and John come in Acts 8. Peter and John represented Apostles and Prophets. They are the one's who laid hands on those who received the Holy Spirit into manifestation.

When an evangilist comes to one's town, the Pastor is under the evangilist. The evangilist is the one who preaches. Sometimes a teacher and an evangilist go together. The teacher would be over the evangilist. When the evangilist goes alone, then the evangilist is only responsible to the Lord. As was the case with Philip in Acts 8. Most of the time , but not all of the time, the ministers traveled together. Meaning more than one of them. A Pastor does not travel, he remains there to watch over the flock.

There appears to be a lack of a foundation of truth within the Church today. Not only with truth and understanding, but with leadership as well. Today there appears to be self made leadership running certain assemblies. Some have even made new offices, such as a pope, who resides as if he is Christ over seeing the church. As it is true, that no one man, other than Christ is over the church. The church has an order within it.

Something to think about.

Your own preconcieved notions of the order in the assembly are not my concern.
If a Pastor is so important, why is it only mentioned one time in the NT, and it's not a "title".

I'll tell you why....there is a danger in a one-man led church because one man can easily lead astray the whole flock.

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

 

[Cornelius]

If a Pastor is so important, why is it only mentioned one time in the NT, and it's not a "title".

I'll tell you why....there is a danger in a one-man led church because one man can easily lead astray the whole flock.

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Amen, I guess that is why God gave five ministries to look after the flock and not just one.

Coming to think of it: Why do you think people only pay you when you are called "pastor" and you get nothing when you are a prophet, evangelist, teacher or apostle ?

 

[glorydaz]

If a Pastor is so important, why is it only mentioned one time in the NT, and it's not a "title".

I'll tell you why....there is a danger in a one-man led church because one man can easily lead astray the whole flock.

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Amen, I guess that is why God gave five ministries to look after the flock and not just one.

Coming to think of it: Why do you think people only pay you when you are called "pastor" and you get nothing when you are a prophet, evangelist, teacher or apostle ?

The worst part is...anyone can get a certificate on line and start their own church with the title of Pastor. :shades

 

[chestertonrules]

The worst part is...anyone can get a certificate on line and start their own church with the title of Pastor. :shades

Since the Reformation, that is. :D

 

[glorydaz]

The worst part is...anyone can get a certificate on line and start their own church with the title of Pastor. :shades

Since the Reformation, that is. :D

LOL...good one. I needed a chuckle.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz : "I'll tell you why....there is a danger in a one-man led church because one man can easily lead astray the whole flock.
Jeremiah 23 wrote:
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.



Hi glorydaz

It appears to me that you see the negative rather than the positive by this use of scripture from Jeremiah 23.

This verse is talking about evil pastors who scatter the sheep.

But God did give the church pastors ! One pastor over one flock. But there are four ministries over this one pastor > evangilists - Teachers - Prophets and Apostles. So no one man is to abuse this ministry, or else God will take action . This then will be God gathering back the fold, so they shall be fruitfull and increase.

The pastors are held in accountablility to the Lord. The flock can not say they have no need for a pastor !

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz

It appears to me that you see the negative rather than the positive by this use of scripture from Jeremiah 23.

This verse is talking about evil pastors who scatter the sheep.

But God did give the church pastors ! One pastor over one flock. But there are four ministries over this one pastor > evangilists - Teachers - Prophets and Apostles. So no one man is to abuse this ministry, or else God will take action . This then will be God gathering back the fold, so they shall be fruitfull and increase.

The pastors are held in accountablility to the Lord. The flock can not say they have no need for a pastor !

I'm glad you have it all figured out. Must be why our churches are in such good shape today.

In the first place, the Bible does not say there will be one Pastor in each church. Pastor is only mentioned one time in the entire NT. Now you can make any claims you want, but it does not make it so. Pastor was never meant to be a title....man has done that number himself, and the modern chruches are reaping what they've sown.

Not one elder in any of our assemblies takes a title...even that of elder. We don't need titles to know who the elders are. We recognize them by the lives they live, and their maturity in the Lord. I'm done haggling over something you don't know anything about, and obviously don't care to know anything about. You wouldn't even want to come...we do such quaint things as leaving a can at the back of the room for those missionaries we have in the field, and if someone got up and preached what you do, there would be several men who would get up and correct what you'd said from the Word......, and you'd be so uncomfortable if you happened to come on a Sunday when we were breaking bread. :nag Better you just sit in the pew you normally use and listen to the Pastor you normally listen to and then you won't have to worry so much about what others in the body are doing.

 

[francisdesales]

Did Jesus EVER say ANYTHING to be taken literally to the crowds????

A SINGLE WORD?

Brother you should give it up. You are not going to see this right now. I have no idea why you cannot but I am also not the one to show it to you .

Cornelius,

Why are you changing the subject, telling me I cannot see "it" right now? We aren't talking about "seeing" anything. We are talking about whether your eigesis of Matt 13 makes sense. If you are correct, than we will NEVER see Jesus speak literally to the crowds. EVER... NEVER EVER. :nag

Are you willing to make that claim? You need to if you are going to logically support your own interpretation of Matt 13.

If not, then we can toss out your interpretation that Jesus ALWAYS spoke in parables to the crowds. Otherwise, the Gospels do not make sense. Loving your enemies. Parables... Let's twist that around so we can do whatever we feel like it, since Jesus was speaking metaphorically. Marriage. That is OBVIOUSLY a metaphor, God did not REALLY mean that we are to have one wife/husband for life. No, we are supposed to marry and divorce often! Lust???? That's a metaphor for something else!!!

See where this is going? Nowhere fast. It fails the test of logic, thus, I toss it aside. Whether I "see" "it" or not.

It is clear that your interpretation fails reality, and are unwilling to part with it, thus, "You cannot understand". Naturally, I am not about to enter the world of pretend and kid myself... I read the Scriptures, and when they support a literal sense, I interpret them literally. When they support a spiritual sense, I see the spiritual. If they support both, I entertain that God is speaking in several ways through the same words.

John 6 WILL NOT support a "spiritual-only" interpretation...

because I love you as a brother and I know God wants you to be free.

Cornelius, I love you as a brother, as well - and it is the truth that will set you free. Thus, I speak the truth to you. I am not forcing you to accept it, but I am defending it. I will also pray for you, and I do appreciate your prayers.

You did point out accurately, earilier, that is that Catholics will jump to defend this doctrine!

Regards

 

[Cornelius]

If not, then we can toss out your interpretation that Jesus ALWAYS spoke in parables to the crowds.

You may toss this verse out brother. Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Just to be clear : He did not always speak in parables to His disciples. Only to the multitudes.

 

[glorydaz]

If not, then we can toss out your interpretation that Jesus ALWAYS spoke in parables to the crowds.

You may toss this verse out brother. Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Just to be clear : He did not always speak in parables to His disciples. Only to the multitudes.

Jesus always spoke the "mysteries of the kingdom" in parables.

 

[francisdesales]

You may toss this verse out brother. Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Just to be clear : He did not always speak in parables to His disciples. Only to the multitudes.

Jesus always spoke the "mysteries of the kingdom" in parables.

You continue to parrot that without addressing the examples I have given. As such, you are not convincing anyone here. Jesus may have used parables when addressing the crowds, but EVERY WORD that issued from His mouth was not a parable. Thus, if Christ spoke for 8 hours and said a couple parables, it doesn't mean that EVERY teaching was wrapped in a parable, but that He utilized parables when instructing the crowds. My examples clearly point out instances when He did NOT use a parable and was speaking literally to the multitudes.

John 6 was spoken to disciples, as well. While in other sections of John, Jesus explains when He is using a metaphor with the Apostles, He is adamant about being understood literally in John 6. Nowhere does He explain the so-called "parable" privately with the Apostles. He asks if they believe Him - not whether they understand Him. We are called to believe Him, not to understand perfectly the mysteries given to us.

Believe in Him. Eat His flesh. It is offered in the form of bread.

Regards

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi glorydaz

It appears to me that you see the negative rather than the positive by this use of scripture from Jeremiah 23.

This verse is talking about evil pastors who scatter the sheep.

But God did give the church pastors ! One pastor over one flock. But there are four ministries over this one pastor > evangilists - Teachers - Prophets and Apostles. So no one man is to abuse this ministry, or else God will take action . This then will be God gathering back the fold, so they shall be fruitfull and increase.

The pastors are held in accountablility to the Lord. The flock can not say they have no need for a pastor !

I'm glad you have it all figured out. Must be why our churches are in such good shape today.

In the first place, the Bible does not say there will be one Pastor in each church. Pastor is only mentioned one time in the entire NT. Now you can make any claims you want, but it does not make it so. Pastor was never meant to be a title....man has done that number himself, and the modern chruches are reaping what they've sown.

Not one elder in any of our assemblies takes a title...even that of elder. We don't need titles to know who the elders are. We recognize them by the lives they live, and their maturity in the Lord. I'm done haggling over something you don't know anything about, and obviously don't care to know anything about. You wouldn't even want to come...we do such quaint things as leaving a can at the back of the room for those missionaries we have in the field, and if someone got up and preached what you do, there would be several men who would get up and correct what you'd said from the Word......, and you'd be so uncomfortable if you happened to come on a Sunday when we were breaking bread. :nag Better you just sit in the pew you normally use and listen to the Pastor you normally listen to and then you won't have to worry so much about what others in the body are doing.

Hi glorydaz

This is the reason some assemblies are in such chaos. If an assembly does not even recognize the order of ministers that God bestowed upon the church. Then there will be nothing other than the assembly being blown about with every wind of doctrine. The reason for these men of God, is so that the assembly will not be blown about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men - Ephesians 4:12 - 14.

Paul's ministry was unto the gentiles and he specifically went to each country as a man of God. He was an apostle. He went to or sent letters to the Corinthians. And to the Galatians and Ephesians and Romans and the Philippians and the Colossians and the Thessalonians. And certian men were ordained to oversee. These men would have been pastors, or teachers. So if an apostle came and ordained a man to be a Pastor of God, and came to your assembly, your claiming that your elders would then correct this man of God, that was ordained as an overseer ?

Look at what Paul tells the church in Ephesus in Ephesians 6:21 - "But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things"

Now read verse 22 - "Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts"

So your assembly would tell this man of God to take a hike ? WE here in our assembly do not have titles, nor do we recognize anyone else with a title !

No wonder you are still doing the Lord's supper ! Must be that none of your so called elders told you about I Corinth. 11:20 then ! And if they did, they most assuredly twisted scripture so that you would continue to do the Lord's supper ! And no wonder you call speaking in tongues gibberish. There is no one there among you who is walking spiritually. So there is no example to follow such as the apostle Paul, who said to speak in tongues more, by his example, that he spoke in tongues more than ye all.

This kind of chaos is rampant throughout many churches, not just your assembly, but many others as well.

May I suggest that you look up the word -- overseer -- and do a word study on this word in the NT. As well as the word "deacon" ( Ministrant) And also a word study on those who -- minster. Also read Philippians 1:1

Bless - MM

 

[glorydaz]

I'm glad you have it all figured out. Must be why our churches are in such good shape today.

In the first place, the Bible does not say there will be one Pastor in each church. Pastor is only mentioned one time in the entire NT. Now you can make any claims you want, but it does not make it so. Pastor was never meant to be a title....man has done that number himself, and the modern chruches are reaping what they've sown.

Not one elder in any of our assemblies takes a title...even that of elder. We don't need titles to know who the elders are. We recognize them by the lives they live, and their maturity in the Lord. I'm done haggling over something you don't know anything about, and obviously don't care to know anything about. You wouldn't even want to come...we do such quaint things as leaving a can at the back of the room for those missionaries we have in the field, and if someone got up and preached what you do, there would be several men who would get up and correct what you'd said from the Word......, and you'd be so uncomfortable if you happened to come on a Sunday when we were breaking bread. :nag Better you just sit in the pew you normally use and listen to the Pastor you normally listen to and then you won't have to worry so much about what others in the body are doing.

Hi glorydaz

This is the reason some assemblies are in such chaos. If an assembly does not even recognize the order of ministers that God bestowed upon the church. Then there will be nothing other than the assembly being blown about with every wind of doctrine. The reason for these men of God, is so that the assembly will not be blown about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men - Ephesians 4:12 - 14.

Paul's ministry was unto the gentiles and he specifically went to each country as a man of God. He was an apostle. He went to or sent letters to the Corinthians. And to the Galatians and Ephesians and Romans and the Philippians and the Colossians and the Thessalonians. And certian men were ordained to oversee. These men would have been pastors, or teachers. So if an apostle came and ordained a man to be a Pastor of God, and came to your assembly, your claiming that your elders would then correct this man of God, that was ordained as an overseer ?

Look at what Paul tells the church in Ephesus in Ephesians 6:21 - "But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things"

Now read verse 22 - "Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts"

So your assembly would tell this man of God to take a hike ? WE here in our assembly do not have titles, nor do we recognize anyone else with a title !

No wonder you are still doing the Lord's supper ! Must be that none of your so called elders told you about I Corinth. 11:20 then ! And if they did, they most assuredly twisted scripture so that you would continue to do the Lord's supper ! And no wonder you call speaking in tongues gibberish. There is no one there among you who is walking spiritually. So there is no example to follow such as the apostle Paul, who said to speak in tongues more, by his example, that he spoke in tongues more than ye all.

This kind of chaos is rampant throughout many churches, not just your assembly, but many others as well.

May I suggest that you look up the word -- overseer -- and do a word study on this word in the NT. As well as the word "deacon" ( Ministrant) And also a word study on those who -- minster. Also read Philippians 1:1

Bless - MM

May I suggest to take your twisted reading of Scripture, and your proud judgmental heart and take a little vacation from preaching the Word? It is not your calling. For you to belitte the elders in my church is about as low as anyone has sunk on this board. I'll leave it at that because you have managed to make me angry...which is quite an accomplishment. Congratulations.

 

[stranger]

stranger wrote:

I'm not sure why you refer to 'literal and spiritual' when I said 'first comes the physical and then the spiritual?'

You seem to be drawing a distinction between 'literal and spiritual' instead. Please clarify? To what are you referring to in saying 'what is true for the one is true for the other?'

blessings brother

Cornelius wrote:

What I mean is if you say that Jesus it literally talking about His flesh as in meat here, then you have to also believe that we are indeed a bread. In this case, we cannot use one argument like "It is literally His "meat" " and not apply it to "We ARE one bread"

We are one bread.............its the same as ..........Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it; and he gave to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body

Is that more clear ?

Hello Cornelius,

Getting there as far as clarity goes, hopefully!

I’m not having it either way as I don’t use the word ‘literal’ or ‘spiritual’ except by way of contrast to the words Jesus spoke ‘this is My body’. More in the other post about this.

But to address something of your concerns –the term ‘one bread’ describes BOTH Christ ‘we all partake of the one bread ‘Christ’ AND the body of Christ (the church) ‘we are one bread’. Paul argues we are ‘one bread’ because we partake of the ‘one bread’ that is broken.

Your assertion “What is true for the one, is true for the other†can be tested by supposing that ‘one bread’ is a metaphor. That's as good a word for it - as I can think of.

Since ‘one bread’ is a metaphor for the church, and ‘one bread’ is a metaphor for Jesus Christ, does it follow that the church is Jesus Christ?

Blessings brother:

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi glorydaz

It appears to me that you see the negative rather than the positive by this use of scripture from Jeremiah 23.

This verse is talking about evil pastors who scatter the sheep.

But God did give the church pastors ! One pastor over one flock. But there are four ministries over this one pastor > evangilists - Teachers - Prophets and Apostles. So no one man is to abuse this ministry, or else God will take action . This then will be God gathering back the fold, so they shall be fruitfull and increase.

The pastors are held in accountablility to the Lord. The flock can not say they have no need for a pastor !

I'm glad you have it all figured out. Must be why our churches are in such good shape today.

In the first place, the Bible does not say there will be one Pastor in each church. Pastor is only mentioned one time in the entire NT. Now you can make any claims you want, but it does not make it so. Pastor was never meant to be a title....man has done that number himself, and the modern chruches are reaping what they've sown.

Not one elder in any of our assemblies takes a title...even that of elder. We don't need titles to know who the elders are. We recognize them by the lives they live, and their maturity in the Lord. I'm done haggling over something you don't know anything about, and obviously don't care to know anything about. You wouldn't even want to come...we do such quaint things as leaving a can at the back of the room for those missionaries we have in the field, and if someone got up and preached what you do, there would be several men who would get up and correct what you'd said from the Word......, and you'd be so uncomfortable if you happened to come on a Sunday when we were breaking bread. :nag Better you just sit in the pew you normally use and listen to the Pastor you normally listen to and then you won't have to worry so much about what others in the body are doing.

No one can call Jesus "Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. < The word "Lord" is a title . Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them. Who is there in the midst ? The "Lord" , correct ?

The Lord , gave to the church, Apostles, Prophets, Evangilists, Teachers, and Pastors, for the edifying of the body, so that the body will not be blown about with every wind of doctorine.

The Lord, did not give elders , so that the body will not be blown about with every wind of doctorine.

The body of Christ, is suppose to have the understanding , that the eye can not say to the hand, I have no need of you.

One of the reasons that there is division instead of unity in the church, is because one is saying to the other, we have no need of you.

Titles are of the Lord. There is a purpose for these men of God when it pertains to the body of Christ. You can only imagine the chaos within the body of Christ. 70 % of the body of Christ wants to go in this direction, and 30 % wants to go in another direction. And there are times that only 10 % of the body of Christ wants to go in the correct direction, while 90 % of the body of Christ wants to go in the wrong direction. The greater percentage wins out, but that does mean that the greater percentage is correct.

Christ is the head of the church, the body of Christ, not elders. Nor does Christ give elders unto the church for edification. Elders are those who have been grounded by time and experience. But even elders can be blown about with every wind of doctorine. Barnabas who walked with Paul, was a disciple and an elder. And in Galatians 2:13 he was carried away with their dissimulation. Paul held Peter accountable. Paul did not hold Barnabas accountable ! Peter was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. As was Paul. First called into ministry is an Apostle, secondly Prophets, and thirdly Teachers, then Evangilists and then Pastors.

Bless

 

[glorydaz]

No one can call Jesus "Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. < The word "Lord" is a title . Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them. Who is there in the midst ? The "Lord" , correct ?

The Lord , gave to the church, Apostles, Prophets, Evangilists, Teachers, and Pastors, for the edifying of the body, so that the body will not be blown about with every wind of doctorine.

The Lord, did not give elders , so that the body will not be blown about with every wind of doctorine.

The body of Christ, is suppose to have the understanding , that the eye can not say to the hand, I have no need of you.

One of the reasons that there is division instead of unity in the church, is because one is saying to the other, we have no need of you.

Titles are of the Lord. There is a purpose for these men of God when it pertains to the body of Christ. You can only imagine the chaos within the body of Christ. 70 % of the body of Christ wants to go in this direction, and 30 % wants to go in another direction. And there are times that only 10 % of the body of Christ wants to go in the correct direction, while 90 % of the body of Christ wants to go in the wrong direction. The greater percentage wins out, but that does mean that the greater percentage is correct.

Christ is the head of the church, the body of Christ, not elders. Nor does Christ give elders unto the church for edification. Elders are those who have been grounded by time and experience. But even elders can be blown about with every wind of doctorine. Barnabas who walked with Paul, was a disciple and an elder. And in Galatians 2:13 he was carried away with their dissimulation. Paul held Peter accountable. Paul did not hold Barnabas accountable ! Peter was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. As was Paul. First called into ministry is an Apostle, secondly Prophets, and thirdly Teachers, then Evangilists and then Pastors.

Bless

You're confused, as usual. We are a priesthood of believers. We each come before the thone of God...not needing any man to lead us into righteousness. The church has authority in the assembly. The elders are those who are mature in the Lord and lead godly lives. From the elders come the teachers, evangelists, pastors, etc. ....the church is not to be led by any one man. You may claim whatever you like. There is no disunity in the New Testament church because each has a ministry...and no one takes on titles. For with man, pride is ever able to rear it's ugly head. You can claim a disunity will exist if a Pastor is not "in charge", but I know better from practical experience. So claim away...it proves nothing.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz : " From the elders come the teachers, evangelists, pastors, etc. "


Hi

Can you show from scripture that teachers , eveangelists, and Pastors, and Prophets, and Apostles come from elders ?