Eating His Flesh and drinking His blood

[glorydaz]

Quote glorydaz : " From the elders come the teachers, evangelists, pastors, etc. "


Hi

Can you show from scripture that teachers , eveangelists, and Pastors, and Prophets, and Apsotles come from elders ?

What...you think they come from new converts or outside the church?

Simply a no-brainer on this one.

 

[Vic C.]

Quote glorydaz : " From the elders come the teachers, evangelists, pastors, etc. "


Hi

Can you show from scripture that teachers , eveangelists, and Pastors, and Prophets, and Apsotles come from elders ?

What...you think they come from new converts or outside the church?

Simply a no-brainer on this one.

I'd like to see this laid out from a Biblical perspective too. But this is not the thread for it. This subject is blowing all over the place as it is.

C desired to look at this from it's spiritual perspective and it got derailed in no time. :ohwell

 

[stranger]

stranger wrote:
The interpretive affect of these words can be seen and compared with the actual words of Jesus

>>>>for the bread
this is literally My body ------cf--- this is My body.
this represents My body -----cf--- this is My body.
this symbolises My body -----cf--- this is My body.
this spiritualises My body ----cf--- this is My body.

>>>>for the cup ditto


I noticed the word 'represented' (represents) crept in to your reply - you don't need that word and Jesus never used it.

Cornelius wrote:

Good way to answer, except that you are taking those words and viewing them by themselves and not in context with the whole revelation of the Bible. We are told not to do that, because Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth; and not just one verse or concept. You have to add to your understanding that Jesus always spoke in parables to the masses Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them:

The whole point is to spot the difference between the word of God (this is MY body) and the interpretations (this is literally My body or this represents My body). The words ‘literally, represents, symbolises and spiritualises’ are not found in the key texts we have been discussing. This is called reading into the text something that isn’t there. The whole context of scripture won’t support words that are not there in the first place.

Jesus indeed spoke parables to the multitudes. But the multitudes weren’t in the upper room where Jesus met with his disciples! Nor was Paul speaking to the masses but to the Corinthian church in the passages we are discussing. So where there is a parable in scripture, fine, where there is not, don’t be like the Jews in Ezekiel’s day who said: ‘ah, he speaks in parables. . .’when he prophesied.

I truly, truly understand why no Catholic is allowed to think outside their box. You will not be able to understand what I am saying, you will HAVE to find a way around it (and you will ) because of the simple fact that if I am correct (and I am) than the RCC has a wrong take on it. And that possibility is too terrible for a Catholic to even ponder. So you guys WILL fight to preserve your doctrine. I really understand it, sad as it is. This is not just a Catholic thing, most people will defend their denominational views to the bitter end.

Well, you have to address your Catholic concerns to francis etc. I seem to recall that you are part of the house church scene? Have you, or anyone thought to ask what mindset prevails there? That aside I am happy to discuss these issues with you from first principles.

blessings brother

 

[stranger]

stranger wrote:
The interpretive affect of these words can be seen and compared with the actual words of Jesus

>>>>for the bread
this is literally My body ------cf--- this is My body.
this represents My body -----cf--- this is My body.
this symbolises My body -----cf--- this is My body.
this spiritualises My body ----cf--- this is My body.

>>>>for the cup ditto


I noticed the word 'represented' (represents) crept in to your reply - you don't need that word and Jesus never used it.

Cornelius wrote:

Good way to answer, except that you are taking those words and viewing them by themselves and not in context with the whole revelation of the Bible. We are told not to do that, because Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth; and not just one verse or concept. You have to add to your understanding that Jesus always spoke in parables to the masses Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them:

The whole point is to spot the difference between the word of God (this is MY body) and the interpretations (this is literally My body or this represents My body). The words ‘literally, represents, symbolises and spiritualises’ are not found in the key texts we have been discussing. This is called reading into the text something that isn’t there (eisegesis). The whole context of scripture won’t support words that are not there in the first place.

Jesus indeed spoke parables to the multitudes. But the multitudes weren’t in the upper room where Jesus met with his disciples! Nor was Paul speaking to the masses but to the Corinthian church in the passages we are discussing. So where there is a parable in scripture, fine, where there is not, don’t be like the Jews in Ezekiel’s day who said: ‘ah, he speaks in parables. . .’when he prophesied.

I truly, truly understand why no Catholic is allowed to think outside their box. You will not be able to understand what I am saying, you will HAVE to find a way around it (and you will ) because of the simple fact that if I am correct (and I am) than the RCC has a wrong take on it. And that possibility is too terrible for a Catholic to even ponder. So you guys WILL fight to preserve your doctrine. I really understand it, sad as it is. This is not just a Catholic thing, most people will defend their denominational views to the bitter end.

Well, you have to address your Catholic concerns to francis etc. I seem to recall that you are part of the house church scene? Have you, or anyone thought to ask what mindset prevails there? That aside I am happy to discuss these issues with you from first principles.

blessings brother

 

[glorydaz]

There is obviously no literal eating and drinking implied.

Here we see a figure of speech.

When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.

Another one....

And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, that is at the gate! And the three brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: but David would not drink of it, but poured it out to the LORD. And said, My God forbid it me, that I should do this thing: shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy? for with the jeopardy of their lives they brought it. Therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mightiest.

Eating and drinking is the same as believing.

Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[stranger]

glorydaz wrote:

There is obviously no literal eating and drinking implied.

I have in mind a set of texts where 'this is My body' and 'this is My blood' occurs... We can presuppose that the disciples believed with the exception of Judas.

Matt 26:26
While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

blessings brother

 

[Cornelius]

C desired to look at this from it's spiritual perspective and it got derailed in no time. :ohwell

My heart feels so heavy this morning when I think about the church world wide. Its difficult to find anybody on the forums who celebrate the Word and its truth. When I do a Bible study on another forum, there are at most two or three that cares about it. But if there is a debate about doctrine, everybody seems to jump in and enjoy the fight. Its always about their beliefs and the beliefs of their denominations. "My church is right" and "No, its me and mine that is right !"

It strange to me that most have their heads in the sand regarding the times we are in. Most are not even aware that we have indeed entered the period of time where we will be entering the tribulation.Sooner than soon ! While we debate, God has been going ahead as planned and prophesied, not stopping because we are in error, not stopping because most do not care. God has been breaking my heart, because I have seen how that many people are going to die , so very soon. So many are lost and we are debating about a Saturday being a Sabbath, about bread being real flesh, about getting into the water or not. And yet, few of us know how to use our faith in the Word, to overcome the common cold. Few know how to use their faith, to place food on their tables. Few have learned how to walk in "My God shall supply all my needs" and most think it is not even meant for them.

The tribulation is almost here, and although many think they are going to fly away, they will soon see that they are indeed stuck here with the rest. All of a sudden the medical fraternity that they have placed all their hopes and faith in, will disappear like mist before the sun. Food is going to disappear off the shelves. Gas pumps will first skyrocket (this year !!! ) and then will run dry. Electricity will go, toilets will stop flushing, its going to be a problem cooking whatever food you can get.

Last year toilets stopped flushing in the city if Harare in Zimbabwe. People ran out of office blocks. It came back on after a few days. In the tribulation, they will not come on again. We need electricity to work the pumps. One EMP and life as you know it will seize to be. No communication. They took that TV series off the air called "Jericho" because it was too close to the truth. But even that movie is not revealing all of it.

Christians are NOT prepared for this. They have not been eating the flesh and drinking the blood ! Let me be clear about this: Many are going to die, because of a lack of knowledge of the Word. Many have read the Bible and know the doctrines, but few have "eaten the Word" so that their spirit man Christ can grow. Denominational doctrines have robbed Christians of the essential ingredient that they must mix with the Word to make it work : Faith.

Most believe "faith" is believing in God. But that is not true. Faith is believing God.

Many are going to fall in this wilderness.


Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

The church is about to flee into the wilderness where there is only God and their faith in His Word (Christ)Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


Those who do not believe the promises are real , will fall in the desert. That includes me as well. I cannot preach this and then not walk it. I am responsible for every word that I post here.

 

[Mysteryman]

C desired to look at this from it's spiritual perspective and it got derailed in no time. :ohwell

My heart feels so heavy this morning when I think about the church world wide. Its difficult to find anybody on the forums who celebrate the Word and its truth. When I do a Bible study on another forum, there are at most two or three that cares about it. But if there is a debate about doctrine, everybody seems to jump in and enjoy the fight. Its always about their beliefs and the beliefs of their denominations. "My church is right" and "No, its me and mine that is right !"

It strange to me that most have their heads in the sand regarding the times we are in. Most are not even aware that we have indeed entered the period of time where we will be entering the tribulation.Sooner than soon ! While we debate, God has been going ahead as planned and prophesied, not stopping because we are in error, not stopping because most do not care. God has been breaking my heart, because I have seen how that many people are going to die , so very soon. So many are lost and we are debating about a Saturday being a Sabbath, about bread being real flesh, about getting into the water or not. And yet, few of us know how to use our faith in the Word, to overcome the common cold. Few know how to use their faith, to place food on their tables. Few have learned how to walk in "My God shall supply all my needs" and most think it is not even meant for them.

The tribulation is almost here, and although many think they are going to fly away, they will soon see that they are indeed stuck here with the rest. All of a sudden the medical fraternity that they have placed all their hopes and faith in, will disappear like mist before the sun. Food is going to disappear off the shelves. Gas pumps will first skyrocket (this year !!! ) and then will run dry. Electricity will go, toilets will stop flushing, its going to be a problem cooking whatever food you can get.

Last year toilets stopped flushing in the city if Harare in Zimbabwe. People ran out of office blocks. It came back on after a few days. In the tribulation, they will not come on again. We need electricity to work the pumps. One EMP and life as you know it will seize to be. No communication. They took that TV series off the air called "Jericho" because it was too close to the truth. But even that movie is not revealing all of it.

Christians are NOT prepared for this. They have not been eating the flesh and drinking the blood ! Let me be clear about this: Many are going to die, because of a lack of knowledge of the Word. Many have read the Bible and know the doctrines, but few have "eaten the Word" so that their spirit man Christ can grow. Denominational doctrines have robbed Christians of the essential ingredient that they must mix with the Word to make it work : Faith.

Most believe "faith" is believing in God. But that is not true. Faith is believing God.

Many are going to fall in this wilderness.


Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

The church is about to flee into the wilderness where there is only God and their faith in His Word (Christ)Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


Those who do not believe the promises are real , will fall in the desert. That includes me as well. I cannot preach this and then not walk it. I am responsible for every word that I post here.

Hi Cornelius

You present your thoughts here, as if you are prophesying the near future. I know without any doubt, that many things you have said here are false ! False words, and if this is a prophecy, also a false prophecy !

Your words are riddled with fear tactics.

God has given us comfort not fear ! "For God has not given us the Spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind"

I Thess. 4:18 - "Comfort one another with these words" -- Now read verses 13 thru 17.

 

[Cornelius]

Those who have learned what it means to truly abide in Christ by walking in the light have nothing to fear.

Like Israel, all will go into the wilderness and only those who have unbelief will fall in the wilderness. The rest will go through.

And yes, you will see it in your day. We can start counting the months or days.

 

[Cornelius]

1Th 4:17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Indeed that shall be so. But not many will be alive and left at the end.

 

[Cornelius]

God has given us comfort not fear ! "For God has not given us the Spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind"

That is correct. If fear comes to you when you read what I have said, you are not at the place where you should be. Fear (and denial) is an indicator that you should ask God about a lot of things in your belief system. Those who are in Christ, do not fear, they live in the reality of Psalm 91

 

[Cornelius]

Pro 18:10 The name (Nature, character and authority) of Jehovah is a strong tower; The righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

God's name is not His title. His Word reveals His nature, His character and His authority : THAT saves us from anything and everything.

 

[Mysteryman]

Those who have learned what it means to truly abide in Christ by walking in the light have nothing to fear.

Like Israel, all will go into the wilderness and only those who have unbelief will fall in the wilderness. The rest will go through.

And yes, you will see it in your day. We can start counting the months or days.

Hi C.

Untrue and false !

The church will not go into the tribulation, that is false. And your premise that the church is going to go into the wilderness is also false ! You present this in a negative light. And this is where you fall short of the full understanding. You have not accepted the truth as presented by the scriptures. Thus you want to present a false premise.

God had Israel wander in the wilderness because of their unbelief. Christians have the mind of Christ, and we are "of" the faith of Christ. Our "hope" is not based upon a false premise ! It is based upon the understanding that we will not wander in the wilderness as the unbelieving Jews did. We call ourselves believers, not unbelievers !

There are many false doctorines that have gone out into the world. And you have accepted this false doctorine and claim it for your own. What you want to believe is up to you. But what the church is promised by God, will come to pass, no matter what negative presentation is given. What God promises, he will bring to pass ! The church is to be comforted that they will not be a part of the tribulation.

What you need to do, is accept the truth, and deny the untruth (lie). Many rewards will be lost because of believing false premises. Many will not receive the crowns promised by God, because they do not stand in faithfullness to his promises . But nonetheless, if God has called you into the body of Christ and placed you in the body where it has pleased him. You will also be gathered up , when Christ come to gather up the body of Christ , just prior to the trib period. What you will loose, are rewards and very possibly a crown. I Thess. 2:19 is a crown of rejoicing. There are other crowns as well , like -- crown of life, or the crown of righteousness

I Corinth. 9:25 - "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown ; but we an incorruptible.

Verse 27 , when Paul talks about being a castaway. Many people misunderstand here what Paul is talking about. The word "castaway" means one who is not approved. Which means, one who is not worthy of a crown.

So many people loose the vision of the - HOPE

And mainly it is because of false doctorines, such as you are presenting here ! You talk about eating the Word of God. But do you truly understand what you are reading ? Many do not ! So they assume , or follow the doctorines of men. The large majority follow the doctorines of men. Established by man or men, for others to follow in their pernicous ways.

The Word states, that every person needs to be persuaded in their own minds. But mark my words. What we choose to believe and walk after, we will receive those things we seek after. It is my prayer, that all run a good race and seek after the prize and promises of God. It is how we run the race is of the utmost importance. Salvation has been promised. But God is a righteous judge, and he will judge us on how we run the race. We are to lead others to the truth, not untruth (lies). We should comfort our hearts, that God , by his grace, has not called us unto the tribulation period, nor the wrath of God period. At the end of the fifth seal, which btw is getting much closer. The church will be gathered up, and we are to comfort the church with these words ! Not stike fear into the church that this will not happen. Which is what you are proposing.

Its time for change my friend. And comfort, not fear ! There is no fear in love < Remember this !

 

[Mysteryman]

God has given us comfort not fear ! "For God has not given us the Spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind"

That is correct. If fear comes to you when you read what I have said, you are not at the place where you should be. Fear (and denial) is an indicator that you should ask God about a lot of things in your belief system. Those who are in Christ, do not fear, they live in the reality of Psalm 91

Hi C.

Again, your words have no truth in them. You present a picture of fear ! You present a picture of the church going into the wilderness, which is not true ! Your present a false premise that we are going to be a part of the tribulation. All false !

I do not fear what you write, trust me ! :yes The truth has given me comfort !

But your presentation is based upon fear, which is not of the one true God ! There are no words of comfort in your words, none ! Only fear !

You need to change (repent) of your fearful tactics . Sooner the better.

Bless

 

[Cornelius]

I am not going to try and talk you out of your false doctrine.

I am only giving this warning for those who have hears. The rest will fight this.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Cornelius: " I am responsible for every word that I post here."


Hi C.

Well, at least you got one thing right. God will hold anyone and everyone accountable, who presents idle words and or the wisdom of men.

Matthew 12:36 - "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement"

 

[Cornelius]

Quote Cornelius: " I am responsible for every word that I post here."


Hi C.

Well, at least you got one thing right. God will hold anyone and everyone accountable, who presents idle words and or the wisdom of men.

Matthew 12:36 - "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement"

Amen,

I weigh every word I post against this verse :1Pe 4:11 if any man speaketh, speaking as it were oracles of God; if any man ministereth, ministering as of the strength which God supplieth: that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, whose is the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Cornelius: " I am responsible for every word that I post here."


Hi C.

Well, at least you got one thing right. God will hold anyone and everyone accountable, who presents idle words and or the wisdom of men.

Matthew 12:36 - "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement"

Amen,

I weigh every word I post against this verse :1Pe 4:11 if any man speaketh, speaking as it were oracles of God; if any man ministereth, ministering as of the strength which God supplieth: that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, whose is the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Hi C.

Well this all sounds and looks good. But one just needs to go back and read what you wrote previously today. And your words do not line up with the scriptures of promise. Your words are riddled with fear tactics and false premises ! False claims and false doctorines of men. You want to present yourself as someone who presents the truth, and you try your best to present yourself as a prophet of God, or a man of God. The words you have presented are all false !

This should prick you in your heart. But from what I have seen so far, you reject the truth instead of embracing the truth. You make it look like the church has fallen from the truth, so that they now will wander and die in the wilderness because of their unbelief. If you have the truth in you, then you will not paint such a negative presentation that you have done.

As it is true that the church has adopted many false doctorines, and because of this they have fallen from grace. But even thought this is true, they will not wander in the wilderness as you have presented. God's promises are true. Christians have the mind of Christ ! And you present such a picture of unbelief that is just redundant. Many christians have fallen short, or fallen from grace. And they will loose rewards because of this. Or even crowns , because they did not run the race to receive the prize .

The church has been promised by God certain things. We are not going to die because of unbelief, as you suggest ! God in his infinite wisdom and mercy and grace, is going to gather up the church prior to the false premise you have presented !

If you beieve what you type, then you better start searching the scriptures for the truth once again my friend. And this time eat from the table of the Lord.

The Word plainly states - "My God -- shall -- supply all your needs". Not maybe, or if, or per chance !

And we all die, so stop presenting a death sentence that is not true !

He that feareth is not made perfect in love - I John 4:18

II Corinth. 13:11 - "Finally , brethren, farewell. Be perfect , be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace ; and the God of love and peace shall be with you"

Hebrews 13:20 & 21 - "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant -- Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ ; to whom be gory for ever and ever"

And finally

I John 4:17 & 18 - "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgement : because as he is, so are we in this world" -- "There is no fear in love ; but perfect love caseth out fear : because fear hath torment . He that feareth is not made perfect in love"

I John 5:14 - And this is the confidence that we have in him, that , if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us"

Start presenting a more postive picture Cornelius ! Your negative presentation is for the birds !

Peace my friend

 

[Cornelius]

God has promised nothing to those who have fallen away from the true Gospel. Nothing is promised outside of Christ. Nothing is promised for those who are not holy and sanctified. Nothing is promised for those who do not walk as He walked. Nothing is promised for those who do not believe the promises of God.

 

[Cornelius]

As it is true that the church has adopted many false doctorines, and because of this they have fallen from grace. But even thought this is true, they will not wander in the wilderness as you have presented. God's promises are true. Christians have the mind of Christ !

If they indeed had the mind of Christ, they would agree with the Word and not add to it like you are admitting that they do with their many false doctrines.

God has ALWAYS handed His people over to the Beast when they went into error. Israel was forever repenting because God handed them over to the enemy when they went astray. God is the same God today. Christians have become hard of hearing and so He is handing them over to the enemy so that they can repent.

We do not have long to wait to see if my words are coming true. The next thing that is going to happen is the US economy is going to fall apart .

C