Bible Study Ecclesiastes, A Bible Study by Chopper & Reba.

[GodsGrace]

FOR JETHRO BODINE

We're zipping right along.

Jethro, I had asked you if God CAUSES misery to teach us things and you gave me the normally given reply. Okay. Then to Angel you say:

A sickness can do that. It makes you weak so that you have to rely on the Lord for provision or comfort. It's not that you sinned and have to be punished (if that's the case), but rather the sickness forces you to walk the straight and narrow, training you to become accustomed to doing that. Without the impetus of a sickness (or financial failure, etc.) you may never learn the discipline of relying on and seeking the Lord thus developing the godly character the Lord has set us apart to walk in.

You know I don't like to be insistent, but wouldn't the above go to my belief that God only USES bad, and does not cause it? Wouldn't you say that my biblical quote would be correct? (this is important to me).
Romans 8:28

Do you see the difference?

I know those verses you quoted sound very clear. But don't we always have to consider the nature of God too, people spoke differently back then - they attributed everything to God. You take your verses literally?

IOW, if I tell a child not to do something, the fact that the action has inborn consequences is what will punish the child by causing him harm - not the fact that I CAUSE him the harm because he didn't obey me.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

I would rather be obedient than knowledgable.
Some things are easy to be obedient over, some..not so much.

Hi Angel
I agree with what Jethro says in 137, but let me ask you this:
How can I be obedient if I don't have any knowledge?

Now, Jesus is a person and not a textbook. So I would agree that we need to know Him and not be obsessed with knowing the bible in a knowledge way- but what about some churches that won't even declare from the pulpit what is right and what is wrong?

I never hear the words in some churches that say: Don't do drugs - and then explain why. Don't get divorced - and then explain why. So we have people going to church every Sunday who abuse their body and who get divorced and when all the consequences fall upon them, they don't understand what happened to them.

Knowledge is necessary for obedience.
What say you?

Wondering

 

[Angel]

I agree that some knowledge is necessary, and that it is also beneficial to practice what the bible says,
what I mean is that i would rather live what it says then debate or have great insight into the book of revelations and stuff.
Did I answer right?

 

[GodsGrace]

FOR ROLLO TAMASI

Rollo,
What we're discussing is the whole point of Ecc !!
Maybe this is why I never went back to study this book a second time. It gives one TOO MUCH to think about !
But it's good thinking. Keeps everything in perspective. It makes you understand that the great new car smell when you open the door is not going to last long. But God will last forever.

The mini-studies are good. They clear up matters...

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree that some knowledge is necessary, and that it is also beneficial to practice what the bible says,
what I mean is that i would rather live what it says then debate or have great insight into the book of revelations and stuff.
Did I answer right?

Not only did you answer right, everyone should understand this!
What Jesus taught should not be taken as something to be "learned", but as something to be "lived." That's what FOLLOWING Him is all about.

Some of us have to know a little more, but it doesn't help much with our daily living because Jesus SIMPLY told us all we need to know.

Wondering

 

[Angel]

Amen

 

[Malachi]

What does God do exactly when he disciplines us? How?

What God does is work at transforming a sinner into a saint. Just as precious gold must be separated from worthless dross in a furnace of high heat, the Christian's faith and character must be purified in the disciplines which God applies (oppositions, afflictions, trials, and tribulations, up to martyrdom).

 

[GodsGrace]

Deuteronomy 14:26;
"Use the silver to buy whatever you like: sheep, cattle, wine, or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice".

This is the Law of Moses.
What part don't you understand?

If you are living one day at a time, why aren't you enjoying it?
I do.
I'm drinking a glass of wine right now.
And I'm enjoying it.
Why not?
Tomorrow I might be dead.

I understand it. I'm saying that even if you can't enjoy the wine, you can still know that God is with you. The wine comes second.
The beginning of Deuteronomy is saying that we (Israel and all of us under the New Covenant) are the holy people of the LORD. Deuteronomy 14:2

Then it goes on to tell which animals may be eaten, clean, and which may not, unclean. This no longer binds us, of course because Jesus abolished ceremonial law.

Then it goes on to say how we are to tithe.
Deuteronomy 14:22
Why do we tithe? Because everything we have belongs to God. None of anything is ours and can be taken away at any moment. So tithing reminds us that God should come first - 10% of the "fruits" belong to Him.

If the sanctuary is far away and the "fruits" or harvest cannot be carried there, then they were to sell the goods to receive money, which is easy to carry. Then they would buy what they would have carried there anyway (if it had been convenient) and they'd enjoy eating and drinking part of the offering in the presence of the LORD. And rejoice - because they would understand that God came first, and then the rest.

This is my understanding.
We are to enjoy all, but understand that it is not useful for joy and that God comes first and is able to supply that joy.

Wondering

 

[Jethro Bodine]

FOR JETHRO BODINE

We're zipping right along.

Jethro, I had asked you if God CAUSES misery to teach us things and you gave me the normally given reply. Okay. Then to Angel you say:

A sickness can do that. It makes you weak so that you have to rely on the Lord for provision or comfort. It's not that you sinned and have to be punished (if that's the case), but rather the sickness forces you to walk the straight and narrow, training you to become accustomed to doing that. Without the impetus of a sickness (or financial failure, etc.) you may never learn the discipline of relying on and seeking the Lord thus developing the godly character the Lord has set us apart to walk in.

You know I don't like to be insistent, but wouldn't the above go to my belief that God only USES bad, and does not cause it? Wouldn't you say that my biblical quote would be correct? (this is important to me).
Romans 8:28

Do you see the difference?

I know those verses you quoted sound very clear. But don't we always have to consider the nature of God too, people spoke differently back then - they attributed everything to God. You take your verses literally?

IOW, if I tell a child not to do something, the fact that the action has inborn consequences is what will punish the child by causing him harm - not the fact that I CAUSE him the harm because he didn't obey me.

Wondering

The scriptures teach us very clearly about God himself sending judgment on his people. Just because he uses angels to do that doesn't mean it does not come from him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

if I tell a child not to do something, the fact that the action has inborn consequences is what will punish the child by causing him harm - not the fact that I CAUSE him the harm because he didn't obey me.

Sounds good, but it doesn't explain how the Corinthians had become sick, and some even died, just by virtue of the natural world by not being sensitive to their fellow congregants.

 

[th1b.taylor]

God let Satan harm Job in so many ways

And right there is one of the key verses to the Trials of Job. The teting did not come from God, it came from Satan anjd God knew how Spiritually Strong Job was but did Job? After the trials Job could laugh at any threat because God had allowed him to learn more about Spiritual Matters from Earthly Trials.

 

[reba]

Angel some of us learn from a hug not to do XYZ again ... As for myself a hug would be a point of agreement or approval.. Want me to learn get my attention with a 2 by 4 up side my thick head...

 

[th1b.taylor]

The scriptures teach us very clearly about God himself sending judgment on his people. Just because he uses angels to do that doesn't mean it does not come from him.

Just as everything we do comes from the heart and we are the 'image' of God, What was in God's heart was Good for Job and God not doing any sin could not do it and so it is that it came from God's Permissive Will and was for the good of AJob in the long run of life.

 

[Deborah13]

On that note though we do live in a world that is very broken, and in a way I think God allows

I would say that everything that happens has been allowed by God, but not that He causes everything to happen.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

FOR ROLLO TAMASI

Rollo,
What we're discussing is the whole point of Ecc !!
Maybe this is why I never went back to study this book a second time. It gives one TOO MUCH to think about !
But it's good thinking. Keeps everything in perspective. It makes you understand that the great new car smell when you open the door is not going to last long. But God will last forever.

The mini-studies are good. They clear up matters...

Wondering

I still haven't gotten past verse 5.
You're way ahead of me.

 

[reba]

Rollo Tamasi Ok what about verse 5 is it that you dont gotten? exactly what?

 

[reba]

1:5 The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo Tamasi Ok what about verse 5 is it that you dont gotten? exactly what?

Ecclesiastes 1:5;
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises".

A few people have given different interpretations as to what it might mean.
Nice interpretations at that.
But no one can see it as literal because it contradicts modern science.
In the first 11 verses, they are all literal except this verse.
That doesn't make sense to me.
No one can give me a good reason to believe that I should accept this verse as being something other than literal while I should accept all the other verses as being literal.

According to my knowledge of the english language, that is confusing and not something I was ever taught to accept.
Under any circumstances.
So why has everyone tried to sweep my comments under the rug and move on as though I am in agreement with everyone else.
I am not.
I have expressed that.
No one acknowledges it.

Here's what I see.
No one knows how to answer me and to agree with me, one would have to question the science they have been taught all their lives.

For me, it's easier to question science than it is to question the Word of God.

 

[reba]

"Rollo Tamasi, ]Ecclesiastes 1:5;
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises".

A few people have given different interpretations as to what it might mean.
Nice interpretations at that.
But no one can see it as literal because it contradicts modern science. No is simply poetic and our logic
In the first 11 verses, they are all literal except this verse. Not so The Truckee ( Reno) river does not flow to the sea
That doesn't make sense to me.
No one can give me a good reason to believe that I should accept this verse as being something other than literal while I should accept all the other verses as being literal.
1:2 Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity. Really? a tree is part of all is it vanity
1:8 All things are full of weariness; a man cannot utter it; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing. I know my ears are some time so full i can hear some else
According to my knowledge of the english language, that is confusing and not something I was ever taught to accept.
Under any circumstances.
So why has everyone tried to sweep my comments under the rug and move on as though I am in agreement with everyone else. Should the whole study be stopped because you dont choose to accept verse 5 in a poetic nature
I am not.
I have expressed that.
No one acknowledges it.

Here's what I see.
No one knows how to answer me and to agree with me, one would have to question the science they have been taught all their lives.
To me it is not science verses Scripture it is a simple descriptive phrase. I will not pretend to agree with you any more then i want you to pretend to agree with me...

For me, it's easier to question science than it is to question the Word of God.

 

[Chopper]

I have learned how incredibly self serving my personal goals and desires are, even the things I desire to do in my service to Christ. I play guitar, and want to do that in the church again, but I'm not chasing it with the zeal I did when I played in the church in my 20's, because I see how deeply rooted the desire is for people to notice and praise my skill, not just enter into worship with my brothers and sisters and do something good for God. (You folks don't know me and will never hear me play so I have no problem sharing this).

So, I've learned how even my desire to do good and holy things, even considering them my 'interests', are so pathetically rooted in my human desire for praise and adulation and love from others. It's all part of the 'talent search' mentality of us humans. Which is especially prevalent in this time in human history. It's sickening when you can honestly see it for what it is. And when you see it as an honest Christian you then hate it.

What you say about praise and adulation of others concerning your instrument playing, I know all to well. I hope it's not this way but the more talented or gifted a person is, the more they want to be in the forefront sucking in the praise. I stopped playing my harmonica's on the worship team because I came to the conclusion that my motive for praise was stronger than my wanting to serve Jesus on the Team.