Bible Study Ecclesiastes, A Bible Study by Chopper & Reba.

[Rollo Tamasi]

Could you please clarify -
1 to 3 are good. Lucky if you could have no. 3 though.
As for no. 4. What if tomorrow has come. Does this diminish my love for God? If I can't enjoy life, do I depend on God more or less?

Ecclesiastes seems to be saying that eating, drinking and making merry is vain and will NOT bring any enjoyment.
Isn't it saying that this type of life will lead to failure, or vanity, or emptiness. I think the writer is saying that, of course, we're to do these things, but we shouldn't count on them for our happiness. I think our relationship with God is maybe the only giver of enjoyment in this life. Enjoy, joy. Is there a difference between happiness and joy?
Happiness is fleeting - joy is deep and lasting.

Is this too negative?

W

Deuteronomy 14:26;
"Use the silver to buy whatever you like: sheep, cattle, wine, or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice".

This is the Law of Moses.
What part don't you understand?

If you are living one day at a time, why aren't you enjoying it?
I do.
I'm drinking a glass of wine right now.
And I'm enjoying it.
Why not?
Tomorrow I might be dead.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The mini study has taken over.
People have forgotten about Solomon.
A man of the past.
What does he know anyway?

I walk away, wondering what God will do next.
I hope the food I eat is clean.
Because it's Kentucky Fried Chicken tonight.

Up, up and away, in a beautiful balloon.
Let's go Solomon, give me a ride in one of those chariots!!!

 

[RevSRE]

"The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
1:2 Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity.

But the Targum explains it thus: “The words of the prophecy, which Choheleth prophesied; the same is Solomon, son of David the king, who was in Jerusalem. For when Solomon, king of Israel, saw by the spirit of prophecy that the kingdom of Rehoboam his son was about to be divided with Jeroboam, the son of Nebat; and the house of the sanctuary was about to be destroyed, and the people of Israel sent into captivity; he said in his word - Vanity of vanities is all that I have labored, and David my father; they are altogether vanity.” Clark e-sword

The poem is poetic hyperbole describing a man seeing his life's work being lost.
The NATURAL man will always end up in vanity even Israel.

 

[reba]

A little respect

 

[Malachi]

People have forgotten about Solomon.

Solomon appears to be the key figure in Ecclesiastes, but he is the observer of humanity without a focus on God and Christ. He himself became an apostate, yet God used him to write both Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon. As long as we are clear that the Holy Spirit is using Solomon to teach us the futility of life without God and Christ, we can learn a great deal from this book.

Let's take Eccl 5:15 as an example: As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand.

This may be true for the natural man (and sounds pretty futile), but for the spiritual Christian it has no meaning. Why? Because our labor is not in vain in the Lord, and we lay up treasures and rewards (as even crowns) in Heaven in proportion to what we do, and give, and suffer, for Christ on earth.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm just so tired of hearing that God disciplines us, that He humbles us through various circumstances, that His discipline comes in the form of all kinds of sicknesses, relational troubles, and financial losses. That His intervention in the form of sufferings makes us adapt His wisdom to our lives.

"30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:30-32 NASB)

"10 ...He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness." (Hebrews 12:10-11 NASB)

67 Before I was afflicted I went astray,
But now I keep Your word.
71 It is good for me that I was afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.
(Psalm 119:67,71 NASB)

8Jesus said to him, “Get up, pick up your pallet and walk.” 9Immediately the man became well, and picked up his pallet and began to walk.
14Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.” (John 5:8-9, 14 NASB)

4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." (James 1:4 NASB)

"...we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope..." (Romans 5:3-4 NASB)

"now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:6-7 NASB)

5“I (suffering Job) have heard of You by the hearing of the ear;
But now my eye sees You (Job 42:5 NASB)

What do you mean? God CAUSES all these things to happen to us to teach us lessons and wisdom, OR could we use these sufferings, which must surely come from the evil one, to our benefit? As in Romans 8:28.

I mean quite literally that God himself causes things to happen to us to teach us holiness. He may use the devil to get it done, but he is surely doing the chastening:

"32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:30-32 NASB)

 

[Angel]

What does God do exactly when he disciplines us? How?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What does God do exactly when he disciplines us? How?

My personal experience makes me think physical weakness and sickness are probably the common ways God disciplines us. That's how Paul said God had disciplined the church at Corinth for their lack of loving concern for one another:

"17 ...you come together not for the better but for the worse. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep (have died). 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:17,30-32 NASB)

But discipline is not always punishment, as it appears to have been for the Corinthians. If a believer is languishing in some sin discipline will probably be more in the vein of punishment. But discipline, in the hope of making you holy, can simply be God hemming you in with various circumstances that force you to be self controlled, patient, etc. Like how a piano teacher hems his student in with a regimen of strict fingering through endless scales for a set amount of time every day. That's not punishment, but it feels like it. The hope is the student will develop great skills through the necessity to discipline themselves in what they need to do.

A sickness can do that. It makes you weak so that you have to rely on the Lord for provision or comfort. It's not that you sinned and have to be punished (if that's the case), but rather the sickness forces you to walk the straight and narrow, training you to become accustomed to doing that. Without the impetus of a sickness (or financial failure, etc.) you may never learn the discipline of relying on and seeking the Lord thus developing the godly character the Lord has set us apart to walk in.

Either way, whether you're being punished, or simply being disciplined to perform correctly, God is doing it out of love for us, for our good, not so we can be destroyed, but so we can be healed:

"11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
12 Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed." (Hebrews 12:11-12 NASB)

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

What does God do exactly when he disciplines us? How?

He is the creator of the universe, and everything He commands comes to be. I don't think there's a limit to what or how God foes anything. Whether it's to bless us, teach us, discipline us, or even to remove us from the equation entirely. (Not necessarily death, but he can remove us from any sitution with or without our permission and leave it for someone else. Dying is however one thing that God has the ability to hand us though.)

As for examples though, there are many witching the bible. I think at one point in time David sinned by taking a census of the population and God punished David by a choice of one of three disasters. Also with David, once he had a man die in the front lines of a war in order to have the man's wife as his own. The prophet Nathan confronted David on this and though David was remorseful and repented, there was the discipline to the king by allowing the new born child from the woman to die.

In my own experiences I think God has humbled me by placing me in the opposite position that on an earlier day I looked down on or held less respect for. I'm sure if you ask anyone how God has disciplined them each one will have something different that they recoginize in their life as discipline from God. Some might be braver then me and admit how God did that, and what it was for. (Instead of just how God has used humbling experiences to teach us.)

 

[Angel]

27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup.29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself.30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died.

Our sin causes God's judgement? I thought he didnt judge us?

 

[Angel]

He is the creator of the universe, and everything He commands comes to be. I don't think there's a limit to what or how God foes anything. Whether it's to bless us, teach us, discipline us, or even to remove us from the equation entirely. (Not necessarily death, but he can remove us from any sitution with or without our permission and leave it for someone else. Dying is however one thing that God has the ability to hand us though.)

As for examples though, there are many witching the bible. I think at one point in time David sinned by taking a census of the population and God punished David by a choice of one of three disasters. Also with David, once he had a man die in the front lines of a war in order to have the man's wife as his own. The prophet Nathan confronted David on this and though David was remorseful and repented, there was the discipline to the king by allowing the new born child from the woman to die.

In my own experiences I think God has humbled me by placing me in the opposite position that on an earlier day I looked down on or held less respect for. I'm sure if you ask anyone how God has disciplined them each one will have something different that they recoginize in their life as discipline from God. Some might be braver then me and admit how God did that, and what it was for. (Instead of just how God has used humbling experiences to teach us.)

Do we consider all painful experiences to be from God?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup.29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself.30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died.

Our sin causes God's judgement? I thought he didnt judge us?

Many people in the church think that. But it's clear that God will indeed 'judge' the sinning saint at some time, in some way. He is obligated do to do that because he is our Father. But again, the goal is to cleanse the soul, perfecting his character in us:

"30 Blows and wounds scrub away evil,
and beatings purge the inmost being." (Proverbs 20:30 NIV)

The wise man learns early, by words alone, long before blows and wounds are necessary. I think there's a Proverb for that. Maybe it will come to me.

Do we consider all painful experiences to be from God?

I don't. Sometimes I suffer for my own foolishness as a matter of consequence in a world built on cause and effect. But I know God can use them to teach me the disciplines of holy living.

 

[Angel]

The wise man learns early, by words alone, long before blows and wounds are necessary. I think there's a Proverb for that. Maybe it will come to me.

This is something I am trying to do personally, lately. I have made a lot of poor decisions in my life and they are not worth their consequences. So, I think about what I am going to do, and most of the time it keeps me from sin. I'm not perfect... but I know God sees my effort.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The wise man learns early, by words alone, long before blows and wounds are necessary. I think there's a Proverb for that. Maybe it will come to me.

Perhaps you can see the sentiment here:

"12 A prudent man sees evil and hides himself,
The naive proceed and pay the penalty.

22 Though you pound a fool in a mortar with a pestle along with crushed grain,
Yet his foolishness will not depart from him."
(Proverbs 27:12,22 NASB)

Though I think there is still a Proverb that addresses the point directly....just can't put my finger on it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The wise man learns early, by words alone, long before blows and wounds are necessary. I think there's a Proverb for that. Maybe it will come to me.

This is something I am trying to do personally, lately. I have made a lot of poor decisions in my life and they are not worth their consequences. So, I think about what I am going to do, and most of the time it keeps me from sin. I'm not perfect... but I know God sees my effort.

Like I said before, you show you are already wise. Now it's just a matter of adding to your learning.

One of God's attributes is his long suffering. He's not quick with the rod. Every parent knows the delight of having kids who care and who are at least trying. It's the outright obstinate child who should be in fear of the rod. I generally see it as discipline is for the saint wanting and trying to be holy, while outright punishment is for the stiff necked, obstinate sinning saint.

 

[Angel]

I would rather be obedient than knowledgable.
Some things are easy to be obedient over, some..not so much.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I would rather be obedient than knowledgable.

I agree. There are so many people in the church who take false comfort in merely having knowledge, accurate doctrines, etc. But it is knowledge put to use that brings the blessing. What good is it to know all about the fruit of the Spirit and the will of God, but walk in none of it yourself, right? What you do is what counts, not what you know.

Some things are easy to be obedient over, some..not so much.

Which I now think goes back to the basic biology of our bodies. Our struggles are directly linked to whatever our bodies are predisposed to not be so good at dealing with. Some people, by virtue of the bodies they have been given, are prone to addictions. Some have special sturggles with pride, or sexual temptations. I've come to the conclusion it's all about the body. How you're wired is what you're going to struggle with and be tested by in this life.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Do we consider all painful experiences to be from God?

This might sound harsh, but in a way, I think you can look at all experiences to be from God. Both the good and the bad. In Job, God let Satan harm Job in so many ways, and before that it's described that Job had a wealth of blessings from wealth to children. Yet in the book up to the point where Job and his three companions discussed what was happening to him, Job didn't say anything against what was happening to him or that God was wrong in letting them happen. I think at one point he even said God gives and God takes away, all praise goes to God. (Or something like that I think, I should know my verses better.)

On that note though we do live in a world that is very broken, and in a way I think God allows this along with the painful experiences so that it's understood how horrible the world is without Him. So that these lessons never have to be relearned after God makes everything right and sets His Kingdom on the earth with all the promises with it in the prophies in the Old Testiment, and the visions in Revelations, where there is no more sin, sadness, sorrow, pain or death, and the world is full of the knowledge of God.

There is laugher and there us sadness, and both can be counted as a good thing from God. The laughter and the happiness in life are our joys, so how they are a blessing is not hard to understand. But it's even said that our sorrows and our pain brings about wisdom, so even that's good for our character, our knowledge and even our soul.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There are so many people in the church who take false comfort in merely having knowledge, accurate doctrines, etc. But it is knowledge put to use that brings the blessing.

26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them (IOW, has knowledge only), will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.” (Matthew 7:26-27 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

 

[Angel]

What good is it to know all about the fruit of the Spirit and the will of God, but walk in none of it yourself, right? What you do is what counts, not what you know.

This reminds me of a Scripture in James:

22 But don’t just listen to God’s word. You must do what it says. Otherwise, you are only fooling yourselves.23 For if you listen to the word and don’t obey, it is like glancing at your face in a mirror.24 You see yourself, walk away, and forget what you look like.25 But if you look carefully into the perfect law that sets you free, and if you do what it says and don’t forget what you heard, then God will bless you for doing it.

You wrote:

Which I now think goes back to the basic biology of our bodies. Our struggles are directly linked to whatever our bodies are predisposed to not be so good at dealing with. Some people, by virtue of the bodies they have been given, are prone to addictions. Some have special sturggles with pride, or sexual temptations. I've come to the conclusion it's all about the body. How you're wired is what you're going to struggle with and be tested by in this life.

You know what? I agree. And I have thought this. My body is at war with my soul.. My mind is in the middle. What I focus on, what I think about, temptations, I feel them in them flesh and I have to make the mental decision to not sin. When I am tempted so strongly, I also can ask Jesus to help. But I have to remain in repentance. The minute I think I'm fine my own, the minute temptations come.

We all have different temptations, and not every temptation affects everyone. No one is better than anyone else.

Sometimes I find my sins embarrassing. Hence wanted to do what's wise in the first place.