Employment

[jasoncran]

Pebbles, still not quite understanding life on a small farm or ranch.

I'm curious as to how old some of the folks here are. There was a brief "golden era" in the late 40's through the 60's when a man could support a family on 40 hours a week. This was largely due to wide open job market after the war and to the unions that forced employers into agreeing to 40 hour work weeks, vacation time and time off for sickness. Up until the unions gained power in the 30's, 12-14 hour shifts, no time off, no benefits and if something happened to you, you were out with nothing was the norm. Wages were often paid in company store credit, where one could only buy from the employer at greatly inflated rates. "Sixteen tons and what do I get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter don't call because I can't go...I owe my soul to the company store" is about the coal miners who were paid only in credit. My husband's family were coal miners...and when we visited Pennsylvania a couple of years ago, we talked with Aunt Liz about life for the miners there. She hardly ever saw her father. He was gone before she got up and didn't come home until long after she was in bed. They lived in company housing (and he was docked in his "wages" for the cost) and it was a duplex. One day she remembered men coming to the family next door and making them gather up all their belongings and leave. The man died in the mine and bam...they were kicked out on the street. She also remembered the strike busters when the miners were unionizing. They rode through the towns with guns, threatening everyone, setting fires, and terrorizing the miners families.

But, the unions, having done an important job of rectifying truly horrible working conditions needed to justify their continued existence, so got into demanding ever shorter work hours, ever higher salaries, ever better benefits until employers simply moved over seas.

I think that anyone living prior to the unions...from the slaves building the pyramids all the way up to the kids working in the textile mills early in the last century would find this discussion ludicrous.

my great aunt (1904-2002) was forced to work in a factory, her family was too poor. yes unions have done alot. but what they do is another topic.

 

[MarbleShooter]

I think employment dose define us because its shows us the direct contributions we make. Sure we also have our hobbies, our ideas, our schooling, experiences, etc, but its what we do as work that emphasizes who we are. I do however disagree with some modern ideals to working though. Corporate jobs and wage jobs are basically stable jobs with a glass ceiling. You are a cog in their machine and have to devote all you have to them to get anywhere, but there is no guarantee that you will get anywhere. These kind of jobs are stable but are very claustrophobic and are on the whim of the employer. Jobs where you run our own business, create music, draw, perform, craft, free lance, etc. are freer but don't offer the stability of a wage job. It all depends on how driven you are or how much society values your skills and what skills you actively try to obtain.

 

[Chris]

No. Employment is a curse upon all men not women (Gen 3:19).

Next time I go for an interview I will put a curse in myself lol.

I might feel blessed on payday and cursed at other times.


psalm 127
2 In vain you rise early and stay up late, toiling for food to eat for he grants sleep to those he loves.



Proverbs 10:22
The blessing of the LORD brings wealth, and he adds no trouble to it.

So it is blessing that brings wealth and work that is a curse.. I thought so lol.



I am joking, before someone reaches for many verses on employment!

 

[Chris]

At some point in time 2 of the unwisest things ever done occurred.

Someone put a fence up around something and declared "It's mine"

Now we have to make one for everyone because he wont share.

The second mistake made was someone put a stick in the ground and made a clock.

Together they created a need for capitalism and way to get workers to work on time.

If it wasn't for hem we might be sitting around a palm tree in paradise sharing coconuts with each other.

What were they thinking.....

 

[Free]

I think employment dose define us because its shows us the direct contributions we make. Sure we also have our hobbies, our ideas, our schooling, experiences, etc, but its what we do as work that emphasizes who we are.

I think you have it backwards. My guess is that for most people, employment is something they do to pay the bills and what they really like to do, what brings out the best in them, is seen in their hobbies and other activities outside of work.

 

[handy]

At some point in time 2 of the unwisest things ever done occurred.

Someone put a fence up around something and declared "It's mine"

Now we have to make one for everyone because he wont share.

The second mistake made was someone put a stick in the ground and made a clock.

Together they created a need for capitalism and way to get workers to work on time.

If it wasn't for hem we might be sitting around a palm tree in paradise sharing coconuts with each other.

What were they thinking.....

I think what happened instead is that God said, "Don't eat the fruit off that tree" and Adam said, "The woman, who YOU gave to me, gave it to me...so I ate it."

I think employment dose define us because its shows us the direct contributions we make. Sure we also have our hobbies, our ideas, our schooling, experiences, etc, but its what we do as work that emphasizes who we are.

I think you have it backwards. My guess is that for most people, employment is something they do to pay the bills and what they really like to do, what brings out the best in them, is seen in their hobbies and other activities outside of work.

I think it can go either way. Someone said, "If you love what you do, you never work a day in your life." But, not all of us are blessed with being able to do what we love. So, for some, our greatest contributions do come from our employment, for others, the job is nothing more than the way to pay bills and they make their more defining contributions via hobbies, interests, and I'll add ministries.

 

[MarbleShooter]

I think you have it backwards. My guess is that for most people, employment is something they do to pay the bills and what they really like to do, what brings out the best in them, is seen in their hobbies and other activities outside of work.

I can agree. I wasn't sure exactly what I fully meant by that.

 

[jasoncran]

for some hobbies dont make good jobs for others it does.

i wouldnt want to make money on my hobby as it would take the fun out of it and yes i have done it before.

 

[Potluck]

So what's your stand on this ambiguous social economic issue of today? Pro rich, pro 99% .....?

I am in the neither camp, and I suspect you might be as well; choosing instead to see beyond the simplicity of the argument at hand.

I own stock in a company my wife was laid off from. She has some stock there too, but she once asked if we should sell it, because she did not like having it because of being laid off.

I half jokingly said; "are you kidding?" you being laid off just increased the value. .....I did convince her not to sell because I'm not. The last round of layoff came from people like me. Stock holders demanding more value and results no matter what. That's the current system we have. work is not a charity, it's a privilege, not a right.

We have gotten away from understanding basic rights I think. We have people adding too basic human rights as if the world is their God, and I dare say for many it is.

"and I suspect you might be as well"

Yeah, pretty much. I honestly wish Occupy would stop telling people they represent me. It's just not true. They do not speak for me, thank you.

I have a daughter and son-in-law that have made welfare a lifestyle. They have 3 girls. One turned 18 in 2009, didn't want to work like her parents haven't for years so she got pregnant on purpose, setup a single-parent household and began playing the system as she'd known her parents to do. She plans another pregnancy in a couple years to keep the income flowing down the road. It's no good having the kids leave the house relatively all at once which is what's going to happen with her parents shortly. As far as the daughter/son-in-law go I don't know what they plan after the kids are gone. Quite frankly I don't want to ask, they may just tell me.

Son-in-law sometimes attends those programs of "get an education... get a job" only when he can't wiggle his way out of it. So that goes on for 18 to 24 months, just barely eeking by grade-wise to keep the benefits coming in, they find him a job he's not interested in, his health takes a sudden downturn, headaches, back, whatever and he's back to square one where he's comfortable.

During my life I've known 4 families getting welfare only one of which I felt really deserved it.

As far as the rich go I really don't care. Their wealth doesn't bother me and I don't let it bother me. Why should it bother me? Seriously.
Punishing them or the government taking their wealth does nothing for me. It fills the coffers of the government though so it can continue it's addiction of spending. And that spending does little for anyone except maybe those who don't want to work. Besides, the rich will simply pass on the increased tax liabilities in higher costs for everything from food, goods and services and the middle class will ultimately pay for it all. Again. And again. As per usual. Unintended consequences. Happens all the time when people don't care to think things through.

 

[reba]

Yeah what Potluck said!

That is also what i have seen of welfare... At 65 i remember when there was a stigma to receiving welfare too bad it is gone....

 

[Pebbles]

But, the unions, having done an important job of rectifying truly horrible working conditions needed to justify their continued existence, so got into demanding ever shorter work hours, ever higher salaries, ever better benefits until employers simply moved over seas.

I think that anyone living prior to the unions...from the slaves building the pyramids all the way up to the kids working in the textile mills early in the last century would find this discussion ludicrous.

It's not as simple as that. Simply enough if you or I worked for the same amount that china works for. We would be homeless the costs of living in developed nations is MUCH higher. The reason why it's so much higher is inpart because food retailers/Housing providers CAN charge as much as they do.

 

[Free]

I can agree. I wasn't sure exactly what I fully meant by that.

Certainly there are people like you were describing though. Very fortunate people.

 

[Chris]

There is one really good thing about work I do like and that is doing something that helps people with a problem that they immediately appreciate and thank you for. I like doing that a lot.






If your job is something you love doing then you will never work a day in your life! (a saying I read somewhere).

 

[elijah23]

I have been thinking about this concept recently and the way people assume its the life long goal for every person to find self realization/satisfaction in meaningful employment.

You didn't ask to be born and then when you are, somehow there is an expectation you will become a wage slave for 40 years. Part of that is likely to be miserable at times for various reasons.

Who dreamed that up? I like the garden of Eden idea!

It is amazing how differently people respond to you in conversation if you are working or not.

If you say to someone you are unemployed sometimes it puts a real damper on the chat, but if you say you have some cool job they want to know all about you, even though you are the same person employed or not.

In the past i have lost a couple of jobs and peoples response is similar to the sad news of someone dying. " I am sorry to hear that" etc.

It sure is not the focus of my life, its what do because I have to.

Is Employment for everyone?

Is its worth over emphasized sometimes?


What do you think?

I shouldn't be forced to provide financial support for people who are too lazy to support themselves.

 

[Davies]

I shouldn't be forced to provide financial support for people who are too lazy to support themselves.

Hi elihah23,

That is unless the Lord wills it. ;) Just think, God does it all the time.

- Davies

 

[felix]

Hi elihah23,

That is unless the Lord wills it. ;) Just think, God does it all the time.

- Davies

No! God doesn't do it all the time!

(Matt 25:26) "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.

 

[elijah23]

Hi elihah23,

That is unless the Lord wills it. ;) Just think, God does it all the time.

- Davies

It is necessary for society to provide financial support for people who can't support themselves. Some evil people trick society into supporting them, also.

 

[Davies]

No! God doesn't do it all the time!

(Matt 25:26) "But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.

Hi Felix,

In the verse you quoted above, God took care of the lazy servant too, only the lazy servant is the one who gets in trouble. The lazy servant had even been given one talent.

I would say that everything we have has been given to us, and though many people work to earn a living, many do not. You could say that God provides for those who can't or don't take care of themselves by other people. It's similar to how God makes the sun shine on the good and the wicked. In essence, God is taking care of all. His mercies are new every morning.

- Davies

 

[felix]

Hi Felix,

In the verse you quoted above, God took care of the lazy servant too, only the lazy servant is the one who gets in trouble. The lazy servant had even been given one talent.

I would say that everything we have has been given to us, and though many people work to earn a living, many do not. You could say that God provides for those who can't or don't take care of themselves by other people. It's similar to how God makes the sun shine on the good and the wicked. In essence, God is taking care of all. His mercies are new every morning.

- Davies

We must help and provide financial support to the poor and needy but not the lazy.

 

[Davies]

Hello Felix,

Who is your neighbor?

- Davies