End Times Close?

[Zinc]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

If Christians have been getting this wrong for such a long time... why think the original Christians were something special? How about they were just as flawed as everyone else? How about they wrongly thought they were in the "end times" also?

I mean, you have things like Matthew 24:34...

 

[Eventide]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

I mean, you have things like Matthew 24:34...

And we have Matthew 19 which speaks of the REGENERATION.. what might that be ?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

WHEN shall the Son of man sit upon the THRONE of HIS GLORY ?

Matthew 25 tells us plainly...

WHEN HE COMES in HIS GLORY..

This is basic gospel stuff folks.. it's not like it's some cunningly devised fable or anything like that..

 

[Zinc]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

And we have Matthew 19 which speaks of the REGENERATION.. what might that be ?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

WHEN shall the Son of man sit upon the THRONE of HIS GLORY ?

Matthew 25 tells us plainly...

WHEN HE COMES in HIS GLORY..

This is basic gospel stuff folks.. it's not like it's some cunningly devised fable or anything like that..

And this is relevant to what I said?

 

[Eventide]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

And this is relevant to what I said?

That's why I asked you what it means..

GENERATION...... REGENERATION...

You see nothing in common there ?

What are your thoughts on Matthew 19 where it speaks of the Lord sitting upon the throne of His glory in the regeneration.. and how Matthew 25 connects His sitting upon the throne of His glory WHEN He COMES in His glory..

 

[JLB]

W.E. Blackstone, Jesus Is Coming ,1908 pgs 210,212,213. Emphasis added , portions of this article were first published @1875.

How many times have you been told that if you would just listen to the Holy Spirit ,you too ,would be able to see the 'signs of the times'.? Something else that hasnt chaged in a century is the intonation that real christians, 'the most devout and faithful', know with certainty the time is near. You dont think its near because you're not faithful and devout,,,

Well ,at least, thanks to Mr Blackstone we know with certainty that the people he considered to be the most devout and faithful of all demoniations completlely failed in their predictions.

Take care

Hitch
​

Based on your interpretation of things, because some people were wrong about the time when Jesus would return you just simply don't believe anymore!

Look at all the Pharisee's and folks who didn't believe Jesus was the Christ.

That's doesn't mean He wasn't because they were wrong!

The Generation that sees the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, will see Jesus Christ coming in the clouds with power and great glory!


"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.


JLB

 

[reba]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

The Generation_ that sees the abomination of desolation_ standing in the holy place, will see Jesus Christ coming in the clouds with power and great glory!

Didn't you tell me the, new to built, temple was not holy? The scriptures are not, off or wrong, on that we agree. So what is off kilter? Our understanding is what gets out of whack..
Where do you believe 'the holy place is' do you change your mind and say the within the new temple?

 

[JLB]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

Didn't you tell me the, new to built, temple was not holy? The scriptures are not, off or wrong, on that we agree. So what is off kilter? Our understanding is what gets out of whack..
Where do you believe 'the holy place is' do you change your mind and say the within the new temple?

The temple is made up of three areas:

1. The outer court
2. The holy place
3. the holy of holy's

The place where the abomination of desolation will be set up is the area known as the holy place!


JLB

 

[Zinc]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

That's why I asked you what it means..

GENERATION...... REGENERATION...

You see nothing in common there ?

What are your thoughts on Matthew 19 where it speaks of the Lord sitting upon the throne of His glory in the regeneration.. and how Matthew 25 connects His sitting upon the throne of His glory WHEN He COMES in His glory..

No, I don't see anything "in common".

 

[Zinc]

Based on your interpretation of things, because some people were wrong about the time when Jesus would return you just simply don't believe anymore!

Look at all the Pharisee's and folks who didn't believe Jesus was the Christ.

That's doesn't mean He wasn't because they were wrong!

The Generation that sees the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, will see Jesus Christ coming in the clouds with power and great glory!


"Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.


JLB

Well that's one interpretation. Another interpretation which Christians have, is that it's speaking of the first century generation of people then living.

 

[Eventide]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

No, I don't see anything "in common".

Nothing in common with GENERATION and RE-GENERATION.. ? Ok..

Then as mentioned... perhaps you can share your thoughts on what Matthew 19 is speaking about with respect to the regeneration.. when the Son of man sits upon the THRONE of His glory with His Apostles also sitting upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.. and how Matthew 25 connects the Lord sitting upon His throne with His coming..

It's gospel too, isn't it ?

 

[reba]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

The temple is made up of three areas:

1. The outer court
2. The holy place
3. the holy of holy's

The place where the abomination of desolation will be set up is the area known as the holy place!


JLB

You dont see the contradiction do you?

 

[Zinc]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

Nothing in common with GENERATION and RE-GENERATION.. ? Ok..

Yeah, you see, the Bible wasn't written in English.

 

[JLB]

Well that's one interpretation. Another interpretation which Christians have, is that it's speaking of the first century generation of people then living.

Please show me in Matthew 24:4 - 25:46 where the destruction of the "city and sanctuary" are mentioned.

In His response to His disciples question -what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Jesus gives no reference to the destruction of the city nor the temple.

Hopefully context does matter.

The reason Jesus makes no reference to the destruction of the temple is clear!

It's not associated with it in any size shape or form!


JLB

 

[Eventide]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

Yeah, you see, the Bible wasn't written in English.

I didn't suggest that it was.

No comment on Matthew 19, and how it connects to Matthew 25 with respect to the coming of the Lord ?

It's gospel too isn't it... or should we ignore that portion of the gospel ?

 

[Zinc]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

I didn't suggest that it was.

No comment on Matthew 19, and how it connects to Matthew 25 with respect to the coming of the Lord ?

It's gospel too isn't it... or should we ignore that portion of the gospel ?

I don't have a clue what point you are trying to make.

How about you give your own opinion and say why you think it's relevant?

 

[Zinc]

Please show me in Matthew 24:4 - 25:46 where the destruction of the "city and sanctuary" are mentioned.

In His response to His disciples question -what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Jesus gives no reference to the destruction of the city nor the temple.

Hopefully context does matter.

The reason Jesus makes no reference to the destruction of the temple is clear!

It's not associated with it in any size shape or form!


JLB

The "abomination of desolation" is likely a reference to some kind of idolatrous desecration of the temple. There is then a time of "great tribulation" which could easily include the destruction of the temple.

Fact is, is that the disciples do ask about the destruction of the temple, specifically about the timing of the destruction of the temple. Jesus, in his answer, doesn't need to go into detail about the destruction of the temple, but he does need to speak on timing.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?..."

You mention "context" here, well the discourse starts out in response to a question about the temple's destruction, so you would expect the temple's destruction to still be in view. (There is also a second question, so that second subject would also be expected to be in view.)


Also, if you look at the parallel chapter in Luke 21, it's pretty clear that the temple destruction is picked up again in the parallel section of Luke 21:20-24. (But never explicitly mentioned.)

 

[JLB]

Fact is, is that the disciples do ask about the destruction of the temple, specifically about the timing of the destruction of the temple. Jesus, in his answer, doesn't need to go into detail about the destruction of the temple, but he does need to speak on timing.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?..."

You mention "context" here, well the discourse starts out in response to a question about the temple's destruction, so you would expect the temple's destruction to still be in view. (There is also a second question, so that second subject would also be expected to be in view.)


Also, if you look at the parallel chapter in Luke 21, it's pretty clear that the temple destruction is picked up again in the parallel section of Luke 21:20-24. (But never explicitly mentioned.)

The "abomination of desolation" is likely a reference to some kind of idolatrous desecration of the temple. There is then a time of "great tribulation" which could easily include the destruction of the temple.

The "abomination of desolation" is a reference to idolatrous desecration of the temple.

Let's look at the language Jesus use's -

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand... 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The "trigger" for the "great tribulation" is when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, for Jesus qualifies it being the trigger by saying "for then".

• The point being the temple is intact at the time of the great tribulation!

Also, please take note of the phrase such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.


The Babylonians had destroyed the city and sanctuary already, as it had been noted in Daniel 9 clearly.


The point being, the "great tribulation" that Jesus refers to is such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, which would disqualify the events of 70 AD, as that had already happened by the Babylonians!

JLB

 

[reba]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

Trying again JLB.... What makes the "holy place" holy? Is God there? Do you believe He will descend from Heaven to dwell in a building made by man? If as you said before, He aint there how/why is it holy?

 

[JLB]

Re: The things which shall be hereafter...

Trying again JLB.... What makes the "holy place" holy? Is God there? Do you believe He will descend from Heaven to dwell in a building made by man? If as you said before, He aint there how/why is it holy?

I am using the language of the bible. The language that Jesus used.

The holy place is a reference to a place in the temple.

Here is the scripture where Jesus uses the phrase "holy place".

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand).

The holy place is the name of the "place" where the abomination of desolation stands, it does not necessarily mean the place is holy!

If Jesus said the abomination of desolation standing in the kitchen, then I would be using "kitchen" to describe where the AOD was standing.

JLB

 

[reba]

When Jesus said that the temple had a holy place right? Seems a few things have changed sense then... God was not wrong or out of words when He speaks. So what is amiss?.... our understanding.


What happened to the Holy Place Jesus was talking about?