Enter the Kingdom of Heaven

[jasoncran]

hitch is talking about the kingdom of god within us. you do believe that when we repent we are in the kingdom. that is what he means.

most pre-millenialists seem to deny that yet they say what i just said. the kingdom is here when its in each believer. but that doesnt mean sin hasnt been dealt with or what i like to call the 'FINAL SOLUTION'

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hitch is talking about the kingdom of god within us. you do believe that when we repent we are in the kingdom.

Yes, I believe that.

The point is that each believer does not enter into the resurrection as they die as Elijah23 suggests. The kingdom in that regard will be established at the end of the age.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes, I believe that.

The point is that each believer does not enter into the resurrection as they die as Elijah23 suggests. The kingdom in that regard will be established at the end of the age.

no, the dead in christ nor hell exists yet as the final judgment of all men hasnt happened yet.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

no, the dead in christ nor hell exists yet as the final judgment of all men hasnt happened yet.

We are in agreement...so let's go pick a fight with someone we aren't, LOL!

 

[Hitch]

Cross posting...don't you love it, lol?

We know you have to reserve a place in the kingdom, now. And that place in the kingdom is very real and now in that sense. But there is a time and place set apart in the future where all things in heaven and on earth will come together and the corruption in the kingdom we know now here on earth will be removed. That is the kingdom that is yet to come and which we have placed our hope in.

It ain't over 'till it's over.

It circles right back to Paul. Is the kingdom he wrote of the same one the prophets wrote of?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It circles right back to Paul. Is the kingdom he wrote of the same one the prophets wrote of?

Yes.

 

[smaller]

hitch is talking about the kingdom of god within us. you do believe that when we repent we are in the kingdom. that is what he means.

most pre-millenialists seem to deny that yet they say what i just said. the kingdom is here when its in each believer. but that doesnt mean sin hasnt been dealt with or what i like to call the 'FINAL SOLUTION'

Interesting Jason. I've used that same term myself relating to the subject of this:

Psalm 104:35
Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.

This is a future tense Grand Finale as they say, and those who keep trumpeting their 'past tense' and Word no longer valid games are very wrongly led.

Here is the LAST TENSE on the subject. It's current, up to date and tells us all exactly what our current conditions are. And they were no different for Adam or any man but God Himself in Jesus.

Having 'eyes' being opened are not talking about sticking toothpicks in them to open their eyes. The eyes must be opened by God for SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDINGS.

This is the condition of every believer presently in the here and now.

1 Cor. 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

But as we know, some posters here would consider this information not valid because it was written to Corinthian believers only.

and others listen to little voices in their heads, claiming that God is talking to them.

The Lord speaks Speaks Spiritually.

Some will get it, most will be led into the ditch.

We presently HAVE eternal life, but this is the END GAME:

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

enjoy!

s

 

[Hitch]

Yes.

In that case the great Messianic kingdom the prophets foresaw is a current reality.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

In that case the great Messianic kingdom the prophets foresaw is a current reality.

But it has already been pointed out that simple observation shows all the details of that kingdom to not be a current reality.

You're either confusing what it means to have a place in the kingdom of God (through faith in Christ) now, and then one day possessing the full reality of that kingdom, or you somehow think I believe there is no such thing as the kingdom of God right now in any way shape or form. If it's the latter, don't make a fuss, because I know the kingdom exists in the hearts of men at this time.

 

[elijah23]

paul died after writing galatians by tradition.

he was beheaded. he wrote philipians earlier.

he said in galataians that he fought the good fight.

he would have said that he has attainted perfection if that was the case. and john would have also surely said that as he outlived them all. john died approx 100 ad. 70 yrs with the lord and surely he would have attained, yet he didnt. he died teaching and preaching love the lord.

Only a vain person would say "I am perfect."
There is perfect and there is perfect. If we obey the commandments the Lord teaches us, we are “perfect.†That doesn’t mean we won’t make small errors in judgment.

 

[elijah23]

But something spoken of as in the future in the Bible. Even by Jesus. And not just in some veiled reference to when the Holy Spirit gets here.

We know the kingdom is present, now. But there is a great cleansing of the kingdom coming when the bad fish are separated from the good, the chaff from the wheat, etc. It is this future cleansed kingdom that is the hope of the Christian, for 'who hopes for what he already has'? It is the definitive moment in history when God gathers his own scattered across the time and space of man's history to himself.

Here's that passage I was alluding to before:

24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. (Luke 13:24-29 NIV1984)


It's easy to see this is a definitive moment in the history of mankind, not a never-ending buffet that people attend as they die (vs. 25--"Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door").

Most people have not yet found the peace of repentance, I don’t think, so the references to heaven ARE for the future.

 

[elijah23]

But something spoken of as in the future in the Bible. Even by Jesus. And not just in some veiled reference to when the Holy Spirit gets here.

We know the kingdom is present, now. But there is a great cleansing of the kingdom coming when the bad fish are separated from the good, the chaff from the wheat, etc. It is this future cleansed kingdom that is the hope of the Christian, for 'who hopes for what he already has'? It is the definitive moment in history when God gathers his own scattered across the time and space of man's history to himself.

Here's that passage I was alluding to before:

24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. (Luke 13:24-29 NIV1984)


It's easy to see this is a definitive moment in the history of mankind, not a never-ending buffet that people attend as they die (vs. 25--"Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door").

The cleansing is a periodic thing where the unrepentant fall from grace. You see it all the time in the world if you are paying attention.

 

[jasoncran]

Only a vain person would say "I am perfect."
There is perfect and there is perfect. If we obey the commandments the Lord teaches us, we are “perfect.†That doesn’t mean we won’t make small errors in judgment.

thats not what be ye holy for i am holy was meant to be taken as.

it means what ever nature christ has we should strive for it.but you say something all together different. you claim that is total sinlessness.

that isnt in the bible.

 

[elijah23]

thats not what be ye holy for i am holy was meant to be taken as.

it means what ever nature christ has we should strive for it.but you say something all together different. you claim that is total sinlessness.

that isnt in the bible.

You will understand it more as you get older.

 

[jasoncran]

You will understand it more as you get older.

i have been with the lord for nearly 16 years.

try telling me something that i dont know and well greater men of god have said they didnt attain.

they loved the lord whole heartedely.

we will suffer if we serve god that is a promise. in some shape or form we will be hated for that testimony. i know of pastors who have athiests who post you tube videos that minequote him. all he does is teach the truth on sin.

 

[elijah23]

i have been with the lord for nearly 16 years.

try telling me something that i dont know and well greater men of god have said they didnt attain.

they loved the lord whole heartedely.

we will suffer if we serve god that is a promise. in some shape or form we will be hated for that testimony. i know of pastors who have athiests who post you tube videos that minequote him. all he does is teach the truth on sin.

We learn all our lives.

 

[elijah23]

i have been with the lord for nearly 16 years.

try telling me something that i dont know and well greater men of god have said they didnt attain.

they loved the lord whole heartedely.

we will suffer if we serve god that is a promise. in some shape or form we will be hated for that testimony. i know of pastors who have athiests who post you tube videos that minequote him. all he does is teach the truth on sin.

To understand tomorrow’s lesson, I first have to learn today’s lesson. Knowledge is like building blocks.

 

[elijah23]

i have been with the lord for nearly 16 years.

try telling me something that i dont know and well greater men of god have said they didnt attain.

they loved the lord whole heartedely.

we will suffer if we serve god that is a promise. in some shape or form we will be hated for that testimony. i know of pastors who have athiests who post you tube videos that minequote him. all he does is teach the truth on sin.

Yes, we suffer a little while we repent. Once we repent there is no need to suffer. We might be persecuted, but it won’t bother us a bit.

 

[jasoncran]

To understand tomorrow’s lesson, I first have to learn today’s lesson. Knowledge is like building blocks.

yes but you asumme that maturity comes by sinning less when its not i suggest reading the epistles of peter. where its says it comes by trials.


theres more to the walk then stop sinning. trusting in times of sorrow and when we do right is also needed and required.

i knew men who have lost their spouses and kids and got mad with god and remain faithful and still serve the lord.

serving the lord isnt meant to be bed of roses. we are called to crucify the flesh but we will suffer in that process and sometimes in our living right we will suffer

paul died for his walk.

all the apostles were tortured etc.

 

[elijah23]

yes but you asumme that maturity comes by sinning less when its not i suggest reading the epistles of peter. where its says it comes by trials.


theres more to the walk then stop sinning. trusting in times of sorrow and when we do right is also needed and required.

i knew men who have lost their spouses and kids and got mad with god and remain faithful and still serve the lord.

serving the lord isnt meant to be bed of roses. we are called to crucify the flesh but we will suffer in that process and sometimes in our living right we will suffer

paul died for his walk.

all the apostles were tortured etc.

We all make mistakes—we all suffer a bit. Call it “trials†if you wish.