Eternal Hell

[godsquadgeek]

Not Matthew 16:23, Luke 16:23. The problem here is with the KJV. This isn't hell, it's Hades, the Greek for Sheol, the grave. This is a constant issue that arises in discussions on hell--the equivocating of Hades and Gehenna. They most certainly are not one and the same, with Gehenna most likely referring to the lake of fire, or Hell.

Good post, but remember hell is a general term that compasses any place in the underworld that that soul goes, be it torments or eventually the lake of fire. As yes I know that hell or torments is also consolidated into the lake of fire eventually.

 

[Free]

Good post, but remember hell is a general term that compasses any place in the underworld that that soul goes

According to whom?

 

[godsquadgeek]

According to whom?

Hell is an english word, from the english Bible, not the greek. And hell is called the lake of fire, and hell is called torments as well in the english Bible.

 

[Free]

Hell is an english word, from the english Bible, not the greek. And hell is called the lake of fire, and hell is called torments as well in the english Bible.

That doesn't answer my question. I am well aware that "hell" is an English word. I've already strongly implied that in a previous post. Once again, according to whom is "hell is a general term that compasses any place in the underworld that that soul goes"?

 

[chessman]

it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell,

Mark maybe leaning just a bit towards Torment

Sounds like he indicated going to Hell is the opposite of entering life (i.e. death) to me.

 

[Michael74]

Not Matthew 16:23, Luke 16:23.

Thanks. The edit button timed out though. I don't know how to correct it.

 

[Michael74]

That sounds pious, but do you genuinely believe that the Bible is advocating self-mutiliation to avoid damnation?

The Bible is advocating holiness. Do what you need to do to accomplish the goal.

 

[Michael74]

There isn’t a literal gardener chopping off branches and grafting on wild branches ... that was just a story.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. The universe was created through Jesus. He knows all of the gardeners who ever existed, and can relate what one of them did accurately.

Here we have a specific individual by name “Lazarus” meeting with Abraham and speaking with a “Rich Man” that knew Lazarus when he was alive and has brothers who are still alive.

Jesus knows the rich man, Lazarus, and Abraham. Jesus knows every thing that all of them ever did. He can relate this story accurately also.

One other personal thought, this story is told about a time before Jesus death and resurrection. Some of the details may represent “Abraham’s Bosom” and “Sheol” from the Old Testement rather than the ultimate Heaven and Hell of the New Testement.

This may indeed take place before hell is tossed into the lake of fire.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14a KJV

The story clearly teaches that the rich man was in torment and in flames. I see no way to know if this is an eternal state or awaiting the final judgement from just the context of this story.

Good point. Consider this passage about forever:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11 KJV

 

[godsquadgeek]

That doesn't answer my question. I am well aware that "hell" is an English word. I've already strongly implied that in a previous post. Once again, according to whom is "hell is a general term that compasses any place in the underworld that that soul goes"?

yes it is true that abrahams bosom is one place, where the soul could have went before Christ, but now that it is empty, if any soul goes to the underworld, it is negatively biased toward hell. So yes, I am saying that. If that was your question.

 

[Free]

This may indeed take place before hell is tossed into the lake of fire.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14a KJV

Again, this is an error of the KJV. It isn't hell that gets thrown into the lake of fire, it's Hades, as pretty much every other translation puts it.

 

[Free]

yes it is true that abrahams bosom is one place, where the soul could have went before Christ, but now that it is empty, if any soul goes to the underworld, it is negatively biased toward hell. So yes, I am saying that. If that was your question.

No, that was not my question. I never mentioned Abraham's bosom. You initially stated: "hell is a general term that compasses any place in the underworld that that soul goes". To which I asked: "According to whom?" It seems pretty straightforward what question I'm asking. You made a claim and I'm asking for evidence.

 

[godsquadgeek]

No, that was not my question. I never mentioned Abraham's bosom. You initially stated: "hell is a general term that compasses any place in the underworld that that soul goes". To which I asked: "According to whom?" It seems pretty straightforward what question I'm asking. You made a claim and I'm asking for evidence.

Well it comes from my interpretation of the bible verses. Thats where. Heaven is not in the underworld and paradise is empty, the grave or sheol is not technically part of it as souls don't go to sheol, it's physical grave. So yes anywhere the soul goes in the underworld is Hell. At this point.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Again, this is an error of the KJV. It isn't hell that gets thrown into the lake of fire, it's Hades, as pretty much every other translation puts it.

but hell is hades.

 

[Free]

Well it comes from my interpretation of the bible verses. Thats where. Heaven is not in the underworld and paradise is empty, the grave or sheol is not technically part of it as souls don't go to sheol, it's physical grave. So yes anywhere the soul goes in the underworld is Hell. At this point.

Your interpretation is not based on Scripture then, despite being based on a single translation (at least a major translation), the KJV. The Hebrew Sheol is what is translated as the Greek Hades, in the Septuagint and in some passages in the NT. Both therefore have the same meaning, pit or grave, and are used literally and figuratively as both a place and state of the dead.

In every passage when Jesus warns of the dangers of hell, how terrible of a place it will be, a place of punishment, a place that one must do whatever they can to avoid, it is always Gehenna. When speaking of the abode of the dead, it is always Hades. Both simply cannot be translated as "hell," as both are very different concepts. Translating both as "hell" is something only the KJV does, hence it is an error in the KJV. Every other major translation (and then some) keeps Hades as Hades and translates Gehenna as hell.

but hell is hades.

Again, says who? Jesus speaks of Gehenna as the final place of unbelievers, Revelation states that the lake of fire is the final place of unbelievers, and we use the English word hell as the final place of unbelievers. Therefore, Hell is Gehenna, the lake of fire.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Your interpretation is not based on Scripture then, despite being based on a single translation (at least a major translation), the KJV. The Hebrew Sheol is what is translated as the Greek Hades, in the Septuagint and in some passages in the NT. Both therefore have the same meaning, pit or grave, and are used literally and figuratively as both a place and state of the dead.

In every passage when Jesus warns of the dangers of hell, how terrible of a place it will be, a place of punishment, a place that one must do whatever they can to avoid, it is always Gehenna. When speaking of the abode of the dead, it is always Hades. Both simply cannot be translated as "hell," as both are very different concepts. Translating both as "hell" is something only the KJV does, hence it is an error in the KJV. Every other major translation (and then some) keeps Hades as Hades and translates Gehenna as hell.


Again, says who? Jesus speaks of Gehenna as the final place of unbelievers, Revelation states that the lake of fire is the final place of unbelievers, and we use the English word hell as the final place of unbelievers. Therefore, Hell is Gehenna, the lake of fire.

I always forget that hades and sheol are the same, I am pretty sure I knew this at one point. But I think from various fictional works you think of hades as hell. But yes, It is the grave, for the same reason sheol is the grave. the picture I posted above, of the underworld is accurate. But I think you are wrong in that torments and the lake of fire, are not both hell. I confused hades for torments, or hell.

but eventually torments gets emptied, then those souls are met up with their bodies in the second resurrection of the damned, then they are judged before the great white throne and sent to the lake of fire.

 

[Michael74]

Again, this is an error of the KJV. It isn't hell that gets thrown into the lake of fire, it's Hades, as pretty much every other translation puts it.

Okay. ᾅδης* was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Free]

Okay. ᾅδης* was cast into the lake of fire.

Or, since none of us reads Greek, we could just use the transliterated word, Hades.

 

[godsquadgeek]

Or, since none of us reads Greek, we could just use the transliterated word, Hades.

Okay. ᾅδης* was cast into the lake of fire.

And we think that the place is cast into the lake of fire, but it could mean just the contents, because the contents are emptied at the second resurrection of the wicked.

 

[Free]

I always forget that hades and sheol are the same, I am pretty sure I knew this at one point. But I think from various fictional works you think of hades as hell. But yes, It is the grave, for the same reason sheol is the grave. the picture I posted above, of the underworld is accurate. But I think you are wrong in that torments and the lake of fire, are not both hell. I confused hades for torments, or hell.

but eventually torments gets emptied, then those souls are met up with their bodies in the second resurrection of the damned, then they are judged before the great white throne and sent to the lake of fire.

Is that all supposed to be taking place in the centre of the Earth? Why is there "Hell" and "The Grave"? If Hades is the grave, and it is, then, even though it is improperly translated as hell here and in the KJV, they are one and the same place.

 

[Free]

And we think that the place is cast into the lake of fire, but it could mean just the contents, because the contents are emptied at the second resurrection of the wicked.

The contents are emptied and then it is thrown into the lake of fire.