Eternal life being tormented in Hell or Death, What is the wages of sin?

[chessman]

well, i certainly agree. So when God's Word says that Satan actually lied when he told Eve she would NOT die, what are we to conclude?

Hi TimothyW. I decided to look at the rethinkinghell website tonight and after skimming through a few articles I noticed there is a debate between Phil Fernandez and Chris Date that is available on audio. It is pretty long (over 2 hours) I think and so far I have listened to Chris Date's opening argument and Phil's opening argument and part of Chris Date's 1st rebutal. I think it is important to note that these 2 guys are very respectful to one another and both of them say that they don't doubt that the other loves the Lord. Also something I believe is important is that they are both educated in a Seminary if Im not wrong.

So far I can say that these 2 very intelligent men (and they both acknowlegde that about each other) are debating some of the same verses that are being presented on this thread. They also both disagree about the meaning of words like death, eternal life and others. I will have to listen to the rest of it this weekend before I could summarize what I think is the best argument but as I was listening one thing came to my mind.

Chris says that the view of ECT drives people away from Christianity and I believe that it does. On the other hand Phil says that the reason many get saved is because of the view of ECT including himself. Chris says that some would not come to Christ if someone had not shown them a biblical case for non-ECT. I agree with them that either of these 2 views may bring people to Christ. However only 1 can be true but never the less we will probably always have people teach both views. I think God can take things that are wrong and turn them around for his good. For example I believe that even though non-ECT is wrong, it could lead someone to the Lord and then from there if they learn more and embrace the rest of the most important Biblical doctrines as truth then that is a good thing. Remember pretty much all of us have agreed that we don't discredit each others being saved or not saved based on ECT or non-ECT.

I will listen to the rest of the audio debate. Thanks for pointing out the website it is very helpful. I hope what I just wrote makes sense cause it was a little difficult to get it down.

Jeff, i just reposted your comment. Frankly, they reflect my thoughts as well. I could not have said it any better.

I will add, however, two additional thoughts since I have listened to that debate three times and all of Chris's, Dr. Peoples, and many others like them .

1. It does not grow any less disrespectful later. In fact, to me anyway, if you go back and review this thread. You'll notice what side offers the most disrespect. It's very common. It takes special attitudes to rethink and debate this issue. Odd really, since we are not even talking bout Christians.

2. The argument for ECT does not get any better than "God can make an unquenchable fire". In that, we all agree BTW anyway. Even titling a book by that truth.

 

[TimothyW]

It was never my intention on this thread to show disrespect to the other side. When I reacted poorly it was because a person said something offensive about me. I shouldn't have, but I also didn't want the accusation that my belief comes from the devil to stand unchallenged. I shouldn't have said anything. I've done that before too, and later I heard "It must be true because Tim never denied it". What can a person do? I see that tob's last statement has not been removed.

You can see by reading these threads the devil has people questioning his every word..

Who believes the devil? The one who says "surely you will not die, you will live forever in hell", or the one who believes that the wages of sin is death? Tob's statement is offensive, unless he is talking about himself. But if I complain, I'm the bad guy. If I don't, I'm deceived by the devil. It's a no-win situation. I should just keep my mouth shut.

I can see from some of the replies that people have never heard an alternative to the ECT theory. How can a person know that what they believe is true if they have never weighed the alternatives? The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him. Proverbs 18:17

 

[chessman]

Or the you are "playing on words" one either!

 

[reba]

Enough.... The lack of personal responsibility for use of words the direct insults, the indirect insults have reached the end in this thread. moderator

 

[reba]

Enough.... The lack of personal responsibility for use of words the direct insults, the indirect insults have reached the end in this thread. moderator

This thread was closed because of the rudeness of members one to another. The request has been made to reopen it. Giving it and members a second chance, hoping it has cooled off to be considered a Christian discussion.

Warning it will be on a short rope....

 

[reba]

Seems i missed a click.... Thought i had opened this....... Words that i read as snarks may will be cause for warning points issued.... i will not play around with editing ....


Seems something will not let this thread be opened ... so i will leave it alone...