Eternal life - What is this?

[Papa Zoom]

Thanks to all who honored the request to stay away from OSAS debating (which is just a temporary request and has been explained several times, a cooling off period).

Every OSAS thread has gotten over heated and closed. People have been called names. More reports have been generated in OSAS threads than any other topic as far as I know. We get lots of complaints.

But, there is not intention of banning the topic permanently and in fact if you read the announcement that just came out, you'd see that we're moving forward with positive changes that I'm sure most people will like.

Give it time peeps. If in the end you don't like the changes (you will) then you can go elsewhere as there are many forums on the net. But I for one think you will enjoy this site more fully once we have implemented some changes and tweaked things a bit. As always, there are forums to ask questions if you have concerns.

 

[stovebolts]

All,
I have read many reports, and I have had many accusations against me. Perhaps I did not give the proper announcement or notification on the temporary moratorium on the issue of debate as it pertains to OSAS. Moving forward, I will do another site mailing so everyone is informed properly.

The decision to halt the discussion of these matters was not based on staffs position on the matters being debated. It was the way you. Our members were conducting yourselves. From the outside looking in, its ugly. Real ugly. Clear divisions and animosity toward one another was easy to see, and it started to spread to other parts of the board. This has to stop.

As a result. A TEMPORRY moratorium was issued to stop the hatred that was spreading like a cancer across the board.

Perhaps hatred and division is acceptable on other Christian sites, and it's sad if Christian's are being defined by how we tear each other apart as we fervently justify hatred toward one another with the misuse of Holy Scripture.

The ban was set as a timeout till folks got there senses back. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you have any further concerns, please reach out to me and Mike in PM.

Mike WIP Papa Zoom Nick JohnDB questdriven

 

[Religiot]

I ask this question not to be provocative but to list the variations of meaning different people bring to the table.
I have expanded my view on this over the years and am surprised how narrow some interpret this to be.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one
John 10:27-30

Eternal life - Life with Christ that once given can never be removed ie salvation
Eternal life - Life with Christ if followed to the end, will result is salvation and eternity with Christ
Eternal life - A new spirit from heaven given to the believer which is perfect and can never fail
Eternal life - A commitment to not send the believer to the lake of fire no matter what.
Eternal life - A commitment if followed through obedience, will lead to avoiding the lake of fire

In some teaching, a sinner is a dog or pig, who through being reborn becomes a sheep.
Some suggest this transformation though founded on faith, can be false if the believer believes
they can lose it again, ie it is conditional while not being conditional.

Some regard eternal life like getting on a train, that will arrive at its destination if you do not get
off along the way.

Others think of it like a ticket that will get you into heaven, which you hold, though what happens
to you now, in the present will not effect the value of the ticket. Such a believer expresses they
feel no different than the world except having faith in Jesus, and will put on a good show to help
others believe, but their are no obligations to be different than the world, in fact believing such a
thing is legalism and heresy.

I look at this slightly differently. I love Christ and trust Him. If He tells me to do something I will
do it. It will take time, training, perseverance, faith, love, following, listening, but in the Spirit I
will arrive through His strength, but I have to choose to do and put the effort in, nothing is automatic.
Eternal life to me is to be like Jesus, to become one with Him, no matter how distant that appears
to be, it is our goal, to walk as Jesus did, which does sound odd, especially with the common church
cynicism that is so prevalent.

Eternal life is crucial to our understanding of Jesus, but some seem very confused, believing ideas that
Jesus clearly does not agree with. The main issue is obedience to His commands. To believe Jesus is
to put into practise what He has said.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Some appear to want to rebel against this obvious command, which I find odd for someone who claims
to love Jesus and want to listen and learn from Him.

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:21

Eternal life means immortality, which thing only God has, and has promised it to those who love Him, through His Son, Jesus Christ, Yehoshua the Messiah. (1Timothy 6:16; 2Timothy 1:10)

 

[PeterJens]

Eternal life means immortality, which thing only God has, and has promised it to those who love Him, through His Son, Jesus Christ, Yehoshua the Messiah. (1Timothy 6:16; 2Timothy 1:10)

Immortality will be owned by the beast in the lake of fire. So giving eternal life to Jesus's followers must be more than this.
It appears to be about communion with the Lord, which is a unique life, that will never end.

 

[Religiot]

Immortality will be owned by the beast in the lake of fire. So giving eternal life to Jesus's followers must be more than this.
It appears to be about communion with the Lord, which is a unique life, that will never end.

Why do you say that God is not the only one who has immortality?

 

[GodsGrace]

Immortality will be owned by the beast in the lake of fire. So giving eternal life to Jesus's followers must be more than this.
It appears to be about communion with the Lord, which is a unique life, that will never end.

Certainly the eternal life God gives us is different from just living forever; even if in some other place.

The way the bible speaks of life is the way that Jesus spoke of it:
John 10:10
. 10“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

We could discuss what a "life more abundant" means to us.
I like the idea of a zoe life....but I think I'll have to post a link....
I like how it's explained...I have no affiliation with Word of Faith churches.

The Zoe Life of God

Rhema - Kenneth Hagin Ministries, Rhema Bible Training College, upcoming events, products, teachings and more. Find it all here.

www.rhema.org

3 Greek Words for Life in the New Testament and How They Apply to Us

The Bible uses three Greek words for life in the New Testament. Today, knowing these three kinds of life can help us greatly in our Christian experience.

blog.biblesforamerica.org

This is a nice subject matter to read about and to understand.

 

[PeterJens]

Certainly the eternal life God gives us is different from just living forever; even if in some other place.

The way the bible speaks of life is the way that Jesus spoke of it:
John 10:10
. 10“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

We could discuss what a "life more abundant" means to us.
I like the idea of a zoe life....but I think I'll have to post a link....
I like how it's explained...I have no affiliation with Word of Faith churches.

The Zoe Life of God

Rhema - Kenneth Hagin Ministries, Rhema Bible Training College, upcoming events, products, teachings and more. Find it all here.

www.rhema.org

3 Greek Words for Life in the New Testament and How They Apply to Us

The Bible uses three Greek words for life in the New Testament. Today, knowing these three kinds of life can help us greatly in our Christian experience.

blog.biblesforamerica.org

This is a nice subject matter to read about and to understand.

It sounds nice, except Jesus knew pain, empathised with suffering, identified with the poor.

Hagin spread holy laughter, as if this is not mockery of people's hearts and defence. He missed the broken hearted, the depressed, the lonely, the betrayed.

If we are strong in Christ we can rise above. And the coronovirus shows our strength or failure as necessary.

 

[GodsGrace]

It sounds nice, except Jesus knew pain, empathised with suffering, identified with the poor.

Hagin spread holy laughter, as if this is not mockery of people's hearts and defence. He missed the broken hearted, the depressed, the lonely, the betrayed.

If we are strong in Christ we can rise above. And the coronovirus shows our strength or failure as necessary.

PJ,
The links were just to describe the Zoe life which is God's life within us.

Nothing more...I think I even posted a disclaimer....

 

[PeterJens]

PJ,
The links were just to describe the Zoe life which is God's life within us.

Nothing more...I think I even posted a disclaimer....

I know, but I think for me I need to work through why the Hagin life style fails. We ourselves often fail over the smallest things.

But when we begin to look deeper, we see Jesus better. Piety and self mortification are often linked. So is truth and wealth.

So a full life definition can be difficult. I was challenged last night about showing anger. I was rebuked by my wife for getting annoyed at my daughter saying I knew nothing about antibodies fighting viruses. I started finding it amusing a biologist did not know this. It was reacted to by me putting her down, which prompted her response.

What was hard was I was right, and she should have known. But I need to be more aware how fragile she feels.
A 2nd year top flight student should be more robust, it is a small thing, but she should know better.

What about us and God?
Will it be resolved?
Sin slips in so easily, but can we take a rebuke? I ask that of myself knowing my very real limitations and needs.

 

[JLB]

I ask this question not to be provocative but to list the variations of meaning different people bring to the table.
I have expanded my view on this over the years and am surprised how narrow some interpret this to be.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one
John 10:27-30

Eternal life - Life with Christ that once given can never be removed ie salvation
Eternal life - Life with Christ if followed to the end, will result is salvation and eternity with Christ
Eternal life - A new spirit from heaven given to the believer which is perfect and can never fail
Eternal life - A commitment to not send the believer to the lake of fire no matter what.
Eternal life - A commitment if followed through obedience, will lead to avoiding the lake of fire

In some teaching, a sinner is a dog or pig, who through being reborn becomes a sheep.
Some suggest this transformation though founded on faith, can be false if the believer believes
they can lose it again, ie it is conditional while not being conditional.

Some regard eternal life like getting on a train, that will arrive at its destination if you do not get
off along the way.

Others think of it like a ticket that will get you into heaven, which you hold, though what happens
to you now, in the present will not effect the value of the ticket. Such a believer expresses they
feel no different than the world except having faith in Jesus, and will put on a good show to help
others believe, but their are no obligations to be different than the world, in fact believing such a
thing is legalism and heresy.

I look at this slightly differently. I love Christ and trust Him. If He tells me to do something I will
do it. It will take time, training, perseverance, faith, love, following, listening, but in the Spirit I
will arrive through His strength, but I have to choose to do and put the effort in, nothing is automatic.
Eternal life to me is to be like Jesus, to become one with Him, no matter how distant that appears
to be, it is our goal, to walk as Jesus did, which does sound odd, especially with the common church
cynicism that is so prevalent.

Eternal life is crucial to our understanding of Jesus, but some seem very confused, believing ideas that
Jesus clearly does not agree with. The main issue is obedience to His commands. To believe Jesus is
to put into practise what He has said.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Some appear to want to rebel against this obvious command, which I find odd for someone who claims
to love Jesus and want to listen and learn from Him.

"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14:21

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


Eternal life is knowing Him.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I know, but I think for me I need to work through why the Hagin life style fails. We ourselves often fail over the smallest things.

But when we begin to look deeper, we see Jesus better. Piety and self mortification are often linked. So is truth and wealth.

So a full life definition can be difficult. I was challenged last night about showing anger. I was rebuked by my wife for getting annoyed at my daughter saying I knew nothing about antibodies fighting viruses. I started finding it amusing a biologist did not know this. It was reacted to by me putting her down, which prompted her response.

What was hard was I was right, and she should have known. But I need to be more aware how fragile she feels.
A 2nd year top flight student should be more robust, it is a small thing, but she should know better.

What about us and God?
Will it be resolved?
Sin slips in so easily, but can we take a rebuke? I ask that of myself knowing my very real limitations and needs.

I agree with JLB in post 90...
but it brings up the question of what it means to know Jesus...
How does it change our life...
does eternal life begin now or do we have to wait till death.

I don't really care about the Hagin lifestyle,,,I don't even know what it is. I learned about the zoe life about 2 or 3 years ago and since we don't speak about it too much, I find it difficult to describe it - although in simple terms I can.

I find that reading about it helped me to understand that eternal life really begins now, that knowing God can benefit us in a way far superior to how I had ever thought of it...

When we look deeper, yes, some kind of mortification is involved. This is what the N.T. means when it teaches that we are to die to ourselves....

Luke 9:23-24
23And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
24“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.

And
Galatians 5:24
24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

It speaks of passions and desires...
which would be that which WE want...
as in the case of your experience last evening....sure....
we always have to concede to the other person...
But, we're only human after all....
We desire to reach higher,,,,but our humanity will cause us to fall....
I don't think about this much anymore...
we do our best and leave the rest to the Lord.
He knows the heart.

 

[PeterJens]

I agree with JLB in post 90...
but it brings up the question of what it means to know Jesus...
How does it change our life...
does eternal life begin now or do we have to wait till death.

I don't really care about the Hagin lifestyle,,,I don't even know what it is. I learned about the zoe life about 2 or 3 years ago and since we don't speak about it too much, I find it difficult to describe it - although in simple terms I can.

I find that reading about it helped me to understand that eternal life really begins now, that knowing God can benefit us in a way far superior to how I had ever thought of it...

When we look deeper, yes, some kind of mortification is involved. This is what the N.T. means when it teaches that we are to die to ourselves....

Luke 9:23-24
23And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
24“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.

And
Galatians 5:24
24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

It speaks of passions and desires...
which would be that which WE want...
as in the case of your experience last evening....sure....
we always have to concede to the other person...
But, we're only human after all....
We desire to reach higher,,,,but our humanity will cause us to fall....
I don't think about this much anymore...
we do our best and leave the rest to the Lord.
He knows the heart.

I agree. Paul interestingly quite specific. An insult responded to with a blessing, being gentle in the face of hostility, seeing a way through provocation to being a peace.

I know I need to understand my hurt and care, allow it to be trampled and walk on. The hardest thing is to carry on and behave as if the response is good.

Someone else who expects rejection cannot cope were the world does not bend to a tantrum. Either they are not important or their behaviour was inappropriate. Both can be true, for love in us defines the reality.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree. Paul interestingly quite specific. An insult responded to with a blessing, being gentle in the face of hostility, seeing a way through provocation to being a peace.

I know I need to understand my hurt and care, allow it to be trampled and walk on. The hardest thing is to carry on and behave as if the response is good.

Someone else who expects rejection cannot cope were the world does not bend to a tantrum. Either they are not important or their behaviour was inappropriate. Both can be true, for love in us defines the reality.

Should we really be trampled on?
To what degree?

This would make a good thread.
(you start one or me?)

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

The rock would be the foundation, which is love for God for himself and not for his gifts and blessings.