[_ Old Earth _] Evolution and Christianity

[kenmaynard]

Why not?

Because there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that man evolved from anything. Man was created with the dust of the earth and the breath of God. Any thought that suggests something different is not scriptural.

How do you explain that medicines tested on animals work for humans if we aren't related?

All animal life on the planet is related, of this there can be little doubt. That is not to say that being related is proof of evolution because it is not. It is however evidence of common design.

[quote:29kpz6rr]How is it that DNA testing to show paternity or maternity show all animal life is related?

Again, being related is not the equivalent of evolution. It is evidence of common design. For example, a Mercedes Benz did not evolve from a Caterpillar combine tractor but both bear evidence of common design. They both have tires, steering wheels, GPS systems, air conditioning, etc. That isn't evidence that one evolved from the other but it is evidence of common design.

To take this thought even further water and granite are two different substances. Yet they both contain molecules and atoms. That isn't evidence that water evolved from granite or granite evolved from water. It is however evidence of common design.[/quote:29kpz6rr]


Well there can be both common design and evolution. I see no reason to think science is wrong for Creation to be true. Both can be true. There is no need to attack science or to perverse what it says. Evolution is the best explanation for live on earth, and the earth is not 6,000 years old. It is billions of years old.

 

[RND]

Well there can be both common design and evolution.

Not according to scripture there can't.

I see no reason to think science is wrong for Creation to be true. Both can be true.

Oh, I see that science simply confirms everything that scripture claims to be true. Science doesn't contradict or prove something different than what scripture states as fact.

There is no need to attack science or to perverse what it says.

I haven't attacked science in any way.

Evolution is the best explanation for live on earth,

If one chooses to deny scripture and what it says that's very true.

and the earth is not 6,000 years old. It is billions of years old.

I think you'd do well to investigate Robert Gentry's findings.

 

[Ed the Ned]

How do you explain that medicines tested on animals work for humans if we aren't related? How is it that DNA testing to show paternity or maternity show all animal life is related? - KenMaynard

All that shows is that we come from the same Creator, it does not show we come from the same ancestory. Anybody who looks at Gods Creations can see they were just a mistake from a big bang. Explosion cause chaos they do not create.

There is more sense, whether you see it or not, that this world was created, the Bible has proved that the early prophets new more about the world than early scientest. Problem is we would rather lean on mans understanding than Gods.
A good video to watch is called a question of origin, it is hosted by Roger Oakland.

 

[RND]

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

There can't be any more clear revelation about our earth and all that we see, both on the earth and in the heavens, that is not revealed by this statement from Paul. It is our faith that causes us to understand that the "worlds" (plural - more than one) were "framed" (to complete thoroughly) by the word of God. It is because of this faith we can believe with great confidence that the tings we "see" (look at) were not "made" (to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become [come into being]) of things which "do appear" (to lighten (shine), i.e. show [transitive or intransitive, literal or figurative]).

And guess what? Thanks to modern science and the inquisitive mind that God Himself blessed man with this straight forward, almost inconceivably simple statement was proven to be true. The Bible states the fact (well before man was able to discover it) that all things that we see are made up of things we can't see. But one would have to ask, so where did Paul get this idea? Lucky guess or from a friend?

 

[kenmaynard]

Not according to scripture there can't.

I am aware of no scripture that says that evolution can't be true.

Oh, I see that science simply confirms everything that scripture claims to be true. Science doesn't contradict or prove something different than what scripture states as fact.

Science says what it says. Sometimes it contradicts how some people choose to interpret the scripture sometimes it doesn't

I haven't attacked science in any way.

Saying that what science says isn't true is pretty much attacking science as a whole.

If one chooses to deny scripture and what it says that's very true.

One does not need to deny scripture to acknowledge the truth of science. Certain interpretations of scripture are incompatible with science, some are not.

I think you'd do well to investigate Robert Gentry's findings.

G. Brent Dalrymple stated
As far as I am concerned, Gentry's challenge is silly. … He has proposed an absurd and inconclusive experiment to test a perfectly ridiculous and unscientific hypothesis that ignores virtually the entire body of geological knowledge

Tiny Mystery was reviewed by geologist Gregg Wilkerson, who said that it has several logical flaws and concluded that "the book is a source of much misinformation about current geologic thinking and confuses fact with interpretation."

 

[RND]

Walter J. Veith - From Evolutionist to Creationist Testimony

Another great video.

 

[kenmaynard]

Not according to scripture there can't.

I am aware of no scripture that says that evolution can't be true.

Oh, I see that science simply confirms everything that scripture claims to be true. Science doesn't contradict or prove something different than what scripture states as fact.

Science says what it says. Sometimes it contradicts how some people choose to interpret the scripture sometimes it doesn't

I haven't attacked science in any way.

Saying that what science says isn't true is pretty much attacking science as a whole.

If one chooses to deny scripture and what it says that's very true.

One does not need to deny scripture to acknowledge the truth of science. Certain interpretations of scripture are incompatible with science, some are not.

I think you'd do well to investigate Robert Gentry's findings.

G. Brent Dalrymple stated
As far as I am concerned, Gentry's challenge is silly. … He has proposed an absurd and inconclusive experiment to test a perfectly ridiculous and unscientific hypothesis that ignores virtually the entire body of geological knowledge

Tiny Mystery was reviewed by geologist Gregg Wilkerson, who said that it has several logical flaws and concluded that "the book is a source of much misinformation about current geologic thinking and confuses fact with interpretation."

 

[RND]

I am aware of no scripture that says that evolution can't be true.

Of course not! You have blinders on!

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Science says what it says. Sometimes it contradicts how some people choose to interpret the scripture sometimes it doesn't

Science proves everything that the Bible says is true. Science in no way contradicts scripture.

Saying that what science says isn't true is pretty much attacking science as a whole.

I never said science wasn't true, I said evolution isn't true.

One does not need to deny scripture to acknowledge the truth of science. Certain interpretations of scripture are incompatible with science, some are not.

They do only when there belief in what scripture states as fact contradict their personal beliefs that are inconsistent with scripture.

G. Brent Dalrymple stated
As far as I am concerned, Gentry's challenge is silly. … He has proposed an absurd and inconclusive experiment to test a perfectly ridiculous and unscientific hypothesis that ignores virtually the entire body of geological knowledge

I guess that's why we call them opinions.

Tiny Mystery was reviewed by geologist Gregg Wilkerson, who said that it has several logical flaws and concluded that "the book is a source of much misinformation about current geologic thinking and confuses fact with interpretation."

I guess that's why we call them opinions.

What I find so utterly fascinating by those that say they believe in God and believe in evolution is that invariably they always reach to man and man's thoughts and ideas to support their views instead of seeking God and what God's thoughts and views are. How can one truly be on God's side when they constantly seek the wisdom of man to disprove the word of God?

 

[kenmaynard]

Of course not! You have blinders on!

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Is that the verse that says evolution isn't true?

Science proves everything that the Bible says is true. Science in no way contradicts scripture.

I never said science wasn't true, I said evolution isn't true.

You have said science isn't true in that you say both biology, geology, physics, and chemistry are fundamentally wrong. Science says life and the universe is older than 6,000 years, and has and continues to evolve.

 

[RND]

Is that the verse that says evolution isn't true?

One of many.

You have said science isn't true in that you say both biology, geology, physics, and chemistry are fundamentally wrong.

Nope, never said such a thing. If you think I did I'd ask you politely to post the exact quote. Otherwise, please don't make statements that put words in my mouth. It ruins any semblance of credibility you might have.

The the natural sciences including biology, geology, physics, and chemistry all confirm exactly what the Bible has to say about the creation of all life and matter.

Science says life and the universe is older than 6,000 years,

"Some" science.

and has and continues to evolve.

Then we should see clear evidence of the evolution. The fact that we don't is clear evidence that there is no such thing as evolution.

Question: Do you believe the God of the Bible created all things? Yes or no will do.

 

[kenmaynard]

Question: Do you believe the God of the Bible created all things? Yes or no will do.

Yes.

Also not some science says the earth is older than 6,000 years. All science does. You can believe in fairy tales and magic over science if you wish, but the fact is that Geology, Astronomy, Chemistry, and Physics agree that the earth is older than 6,000 dollars. You can reject knowledge if you wish, but don't claim otherwise. Your position is clear. That science is a lie.

 

[RND]

Yes.

Then maybe you can direct me to the verse(s) that clearly state that man evolved after being created.

Also not some science says the earth is older than 6,000 years. All science does.

Nope. There are a growing list of creation scientist that have used science to prove conclusively that the earth is very young and not very old.

You can believe in fairy tales and magic over science if you wish,

It's comments like these that demonstrate to me you only give the word of God "lip service." To call the word of God "fairy tales and magic" is incredibly damaging to whatever credibility you hope to have,

but the fact is that Geology, Astronomy, Chemistry, and Physics agree that the earth is older than 6,000 dollars.

I'm certain they a agree that earth is older than 6,000 "dollars." As for all agreeing that earth is older than 6,000 years - well that's another story.

You can reject knowledge if you wish, but don't claim otherwise.

I haven't rejected any knowledge! I simply filter it all through the word of God!

Your position is clear. That science is a lie.

Nope. I believe very much in science - and scientist's in that a growing number are realizing the notion that things just happened to come into existence without the impetuous of a creator are hard to rationalize in light of the clear word of God. But I would like to add that your position is greatly weakened by the disingenuous nature in which to discuss things.

 

[kenmaynard]

Yes.

Then maybe you can direct me to the verse(s) that clearly state that man evolved after being created.

Also not some science says the earth is older than 6,000 years. All science does.

Nope. There are a growing list of creation scientist that have used science to prove conclusively that the earth is very young and not very old.

[quote:2zyqred4]You can believe in fairy tales and magic over science if you wish,

It's comments like these that demonstrate to me you only give the word of God "lip service." To call the word of God "fairy tales and magic" is incredibly damaging to whatever credibility you hope to have,

but the fact is that Geology, Astronomy, Chemistry, and Physics agree that the earth is older than 6,000 dollars.

I'm certain they a agree that earth is older than 6,000 "dollars." As for all agreeing that earth is older than 6,000 years - well that's another story.

You can reject knowledge if you wish, but don't claim otherwise.

I haven't rejected any knowledge! I simply filter it all through the word of God!

Your position is clear. That science is a lie.

Nope. I believe very much in science - and scientist's in that a growing number are realizing the notion that things just happened to come into existence without the impetuous of a creator are hard to rationalize in light of the clear word of God. But I would like to add that your position is greatly weakened by the disingenuous nature in which to discuss things.[/quote:2zyqred4]

The bible isn't a science book. The creation story isn't literal. The science on the matter is clear. The earth is not 6,000 to 10,000 years old. I know of no reputable scientist who claims otherwise.

Why aren't young earth geologists able to find oil and thus get employment with the big oil companies?

 

[RND]

The bible isn't a science book.

No kidding. However science has proven many of the claims that the Bible has made about earth and life sciences.

The creation story isn't literal.

Sure it is. It literally says that God created all things in 7 literal days. The very first verse describes the creation of time, space and matter. Science confirms that matter cannot exist without sun light.

The science on the matter is clear. The earth is not 6,000 to 10,000 years old. I know of no reputable scientist who claims otherwise.

Fortunately for many who trust the word of God we don't need science to establish our faith.

On your death bed which would you rather have? The smooth and comforting truth of the word of God or the a scientist standing over your bed?

Why aren't young earth geologists able to find oil and thus get employment with the big oil companies?

Can't say. Probably for the same reason that scientists that publicly express their faith and trust in the Bible are ostracized and usually fired.

 

[seekandlisten]

Then maybe you can direct me to the verse(s) that clearly state that man evolved after being created.]

Wouldn't that imply that you should be able to point to verses that say man didn't evolve after being created??

The bible isn't a science book. The creation story isn't literal. The science on the matter is clear. The earth is not 6,000 to 10,000 years old. I know of no reputable scientist who claims otherwise.

Why aren't young earth geologists able to find oil and thus get employment with the big oil companies?[/

Curious as to what this statement has to do with anything?

I agree with you that the bible is not a science book as well as that Genesis 1 isn't exactly a literal story to an extent. The earth is definitely is older that 6000 years old. I don't know how anyone can argue against that fact especially when the theory of a young earth isn't exactly Scriptural.

A better question is what does evolution have to do with our spiritual walk?? Is the real answer of whether the earth is 6000 years old or billions of years old really going to change your beliefs as a christian??

 

[kenmaynard]

Sure it is. It literally says that God created all things in 7 literal days. The very first verse describes the creation of time, space and matter. Science confirms that matter cannot exist without sun light.

What? Matter can exist with out sun light. Where did you go to school?

Why aren't young earth geologists able to find oil and thus get employment with the big oil companies?

Can't say. Probably for the same reason that scientists that publicly express their faith and trust in the Bible are ostracized and usually fired.[/quote]

They aren't hired because their theory is wrong. They don't really understand how the earth works, and the result is they can't find oil.

 

[Steve76]

Interesting topic and I would like to learn more..

I have read this on another website and was wondering what others may think about the time-scales etc..


Extract
We are taught in the Scripture, `one day upon our earth is as a thousand years with God'. Although each day was distinguished by `an evening and a morning', they were six distinct periods of one thousand years wherein God expressed His creative thoughts that would transform earth from an uninhabited lifeless wilderness to the manifestation of those thoughts in an Eden on the Seventh Day

and

God took six thousand years to create Eden. So it was on the Seventh Day, after God had FINISHED His creating, that the things which are seen were formed or manifested. And on this Seventh Day, Satan deceived the woman. God had said, `the day you partake of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, that day you will surely die'. Eve was seduced by the Serpent, then taught her husband the facts of life and bore two children in her womb: Cain who was born of the wicked one, and Abel who was born of the son of God. Because Adam chose to die in order to redeem Eve, no man has yet fulfilled a day in God's reckoning which would be a thousand years. The oldest man, Methuselah, lived for 969 years.

Now I think we need to quote a few more Scriptures where this word `day' or `yowm', is used, so we can dismiss forever the folly of men who claim God created a finished earth from scratch to the garden of Eden in six solar days of twenty-four hours.
There is the day `yowm' of the Lord. Isaiah 4:1, `And in THAT DAY seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by Thy Name, to take away our reproach'. Revelation 1:10, `I was in the Spirit in the Lord's DAY, and heard behind me a great Voice, as of a trumpet'.

Now `the Lord's Day' or `yowm' is yet future, after the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet to Israel, marking the end of the Gentile dispensation. It is the conclusion of man's day, and not twenty-four hours. John was caught up in the Spirit in the Lord's day for TWO YEARS whilst he was on the Isle of Patmos, and saw things which will come to pass in that time. So a `yowm' does not necessarily mean twenty-four hours any than our English word always means twenty-four hours. And John did not see these visions only on Sunday, as the Brethren denominations teach.

In other instances the word `day' means time itself. Genesis 4:3, `And in PROCESS OF TIME `yowm' it came to pass..' Numbers 20:15, `And we have dwelt in Egypt a LONG TIME, `yowm' ...' A long time indeed! For here a `yowm', the word that appears in Genesis as the creative period and is called there, `day', was 430 years.

Finally let us repeat Genesis 2:4, `These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in THE DAY `yowm' that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens'. In the Genesis one, the story was given in `yowms' or DAYS, or time periods (plural) -- each with `an evening and a morning'. But in the Genesis 2, as one day (singular).

Without the Holy Spirit to guide us into the truth of His Word, we would be confused as to whether His creation was six days or one day. And we'd have a contradiction in the Bible..
We are taught in the Scripture, `one day upon our earth is as a thousand years with God'
END





http://getwiththeword.blogspot.com/

 

[RND]

Wouldn't that imply that you should be able to point to verses that say man didn't evolve after being created??

Not when I have already provided said verse(s).

I agree with you that the bible is not a science book as well as that Genesis 1 isn't exactly a literal story to an extent. The earth is definitely is older that 6000 years old. I don't know how anyone can argue against that fact especially when the theory of a young earth isn't exactly Scriptural.

The thoery of a "young earth" is actually based on scripture.

A better question is what does evolution have to do with our spiritual walk??

One thing that comes to my mind is that if one can refuse to believe the story from the beginning then other parts of the word of God could be equally challenged. For example, do you believe donkeys can talk? Speak word audible to our human hearing? Of course not you say. Yet the Bible clearly tells us of a story where God Himself led a donkey to speak to a man. Fantasy? Conjecture? Peyote?

Is the real answer of whether the earth is 6000 years old or billions of years old really going to change your beliefs as a christian??

Again, if one isn't fully able or willingly to trust the complete word of God then they are liable to fall for any and every deception that the evil one throws at them.

 

[seekandlisten]

Wouldn't that imply that you should be able to point to verses that say man didn't evolve after being created??

Not when I have already provided said verse(s).

That was a question for ken

I agree with you that the bible is not a science book as well as that Genesis 1 isn't exactly a literal story to an extent. The earth is definitely is older that 6000 years old. I don't know how anyone can argue against that fact especially when the theory of a young earth isn't exactly Scriptural.

The thoery of a "young earth" is actually based on scripture.

Man's interpretation not what Scripture says.

[quote:2t6rqt7p]A better question is what does evolution have to do with our spiritual walk??

One thing that comes to my mind is that if one can refuse to believe the story from the beginning then other parts of the word of God could be equally challenged. For example, do you believe donkeys can talk? Speak word audible to our human hearing? Of course not you say. Yet the Bible clearly tells us of a story where God Himself led a donkey to speak to a man. Fantasy? Conjecture? Peyote?

First of all, I believe all things are possible through God. Secondly, I do disagree with parts of the bible or at least interpretations. The bible has been subject to mans influence.

Is the real answer of whether the earth is 6000 years old or billions of years old really going to change your beliefs as a christian??

Again, if one isn't fully able or willingly to trust the complete word of God then they are liable to fall for any and every deception that the evil one throws at them.[/quote:2t6rqt7p]

I do trust the Word of God. God never said the earth wasn't billions of years old, man did. Genesis 1:1 states that God created the heavens and earth. With what I believe of God to be eternal and immortal the beginning could very well be billions of years before we kick off into verse 2.

 

[RND]

What? Matter can exist with out sun light. Where did you go to school?

The basic building blocks of all matter is found in the substance of sunlight. Science has known this for years.

Presto! Light Creates Matter

Scientists Use Light to Create Particles

Let There Be Matter

They aren't hired because their theory is wrong. They don't really understand how the earth works, and the result is they can't find oil.

The ability to find oil in the earth has nothing to do with believing the earth is young or old. Your statement is ridiculous on it's face alone.

Oil is not found with divining rods!