Evolution+Deeptime question

[KV-44-v1]

QUESTION: Why do people believe in Darwin Evolution, cosmic evolution, and/or millions of years, even though it evidently contradicts Genesis and erodes Biblical trust?

Sure Creation vs Evolution is not a salvation issue, but it is the foundation of our faith. And when that foundation is compromised, more compromise will come.

QUESTION 2: Why do many Christians Not see these facts and conclusions on these?

 

[walter45]

This is not pertaining to evolution alone necessarily, it includes all the necessary systems that are on Earth.

So the Earth and Sun stay at a distance from each other for all life to start and continue to exist, gravity exists, plants make oxygen by photosynthesis, the water cycle, the carbon cycle, the nitrogen cycle, the Earth has a atmosphere that helps life, the ozone layer, the magnetic field, large bodies of water on the earth, and no intelligence to have all these systems?

AI Overview by Google:
It seems like the question is asking if it's possible for all these conditions (Earth's distance from the Sun, gravity, water cycle, etc.) to exist without any intelligence to design or create them; essentially, suggesting life could arise spontaneously and evolve given the right conditions.

The answer is yes, it is scientifically possible for all these conditions to exist without any intelligence. Life on Earth is a complex phenomenon, but the existence of the necessary conditions like the Earth's position relative to the Sun, the presence of water and essential elements, and the various biogeochemical cycles (like the water, carbon, and nitrogen cycles) are considered natural phenomena that can occur without the need for any intelligent intervention.
==============
And last time I checked I cannot even get cream in my coffee without someones intelligence.

 

[KV-44-v1]

answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/genealogy/are-genesis-genealogies-mostly-gaps/
answersingenesis.org/blogs/patricia-engler/2025/01/03/was-Jesus-marxist/
answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/misplaced-faith-isaac-newton/

How Could the Ark Avoid Being Capsized?

Preliminary sea trials indicate the superiority of a bow-mounted fin for directional stability. How could this be interpreted in the context of Noah’s Ark or ancient shipbuilding?

answersingenesis.org

answersingenesis.org/blogs/calvin-smith/2025/01/06/creation-is-based-on-real-history/
answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2025/01/06/combating-cultures-lies-with-genesis/
answersresearchjournal.org/noahs-flood/marsupial-fossil-post-flood-boundary-comment/
answersingenesis.org/evolution/are-octopuses-poised-take-over-earth/
answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/the-real-dr-snelling-stands-up/

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

QUESTION: Why do people believe in Darwin Evolution, cosmic evolution, and/or millions of years, even though it evidently contradicts Genesis and erodes Biblical trust?

Sure Creation vs Evolution is not a salvation issue, but it is the foundation of our faith. And when that foundation is compromised, more compromise will come.

"Evolution" is a false religion. In the animal realm, an observed natual phenomenon is actually called VARIATION as a result of adaptation to the environment. It is reasonable to conclude that silver tabbies and tigers share a common feline ancestor, golden retriever and dire wolf share a common canine ancestor, zebra and horse share a common equine ancestor, some of these are proven by genetic research; but it is erroneous to conclude that cats, dogs and horses share one common ancestor. The bible on the other hand is scientifically correct - God created animals each according to its KIND. Evolution also contricts the second law of thermodynamics - all things naturally deteriorates from order to disorder, from complex to simple, and not the otherway around. It is absolutely impossible for simple organisms to naturally "evolve" into complex ones.

 

[LOOKING]

"Evolution" is a false religion. In the animal realm, an observed natual phenomenon is actually called VARIATION as a result of adaptation to the environment. It is reasonable to conclude that silver tabbies and tigers share a common feline ancestor, golden retriever and dire wolf share a common canine ancestor, zebra and horse share a common equine ancestor, some of these are proven by genetic research; but it is erroneous to conclude that cats, dogs and horses share one common ancestor. The bible on the other hand is scientifically correct - God created animals each according to its KIND. Evolution also contricts the second law of thermodynamics - all things naturally deteriorates from order to disorder, from complex to simple, and not the otherway around. It is absolutely impossible for simple organisms to naturally "evolve" into complex ones.

While evolution, as it is presented today, is unable to fully explain the emergence of complex organisms, it is not true that simple organisms cannot evolve into complex ones; it is just that the current model is incapable of fully accounting for this. However, there are other models that can produce complex organisms in simulations.

Anyway, if we discover that evolution is a natural process, like gravity, does it change anything about Jesus or God? I mean... gravity assembles planets—does anyone stop believing because of this? It's absurd. If someone loses faith over these things, it is because they have understood nothing at all.

To be honest, I don't understand these debates.

 

[miamited]

Anyway, if we discover that evolution is a natural process, like gravity, does it change anything about Jesus or God?

Yes it does. It makes God's word untrue. God's word says that He, from the dust of the ground, formed the first man and breathed into him the breath of his life. That's not true if man is some evolutionary construct.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

To be honest, I don't understand these debates.

It's not a debate, but an exchange of religious beliefs. I don't understand how evolution was not thoroughly debuked by the discovery of DNA.

 

[LOOKING]

Yes it does. It makes God's word untrue. God's word says that He, from the dust of the ground, formed the first man and breathed into him the breath of his life. That's not true if man is some evolutionary construct.

Evolution does not negate the fact that GOD CREATED US FROM DUST. The difference is only in "how" God created us—whether through a natural process or through a deliberate magical action.
I think that natural processes ARE the manifestation of God, not the negation of Him. In every natural process, we can see the wisdom of divinity, and we are the result of this natural process that comes from GOD. So yes, GOD created us from dust and provided us with life.

The Bible is only a fraction of the truth—the part we can assimilate and understand.

Genesis says:

"And God said, 'Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.' So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so."

Where is the vault? Is the absence of a literal solid vault negating God? Is anyone going to lose their faith because there is no vault? Maybe the vault is just a metaphor for something more complex.

I have the feeling of holding a book that contains all the wisdom of the universe, while people are discussing the color of its cover without opening it.

 

[LOOKING]

It's not a debate, but an exchange of religious beliefs. I don't understand how evolution was not thoroughly debuked by the discovery of DNA.

Evolution does not work as it is presented today, and many people defending evolution have not spent enough time making simulations that clearly show the current mechanism taught in schools is flawed and unable to produce complexity.

But...

I have conducted many tests on this, and there are alternate mechanisms that can produce complex organisms from simple ones without any "intelligence" behind them. In fact, you can obtain the basic body shapes observed in nature.

While it is true that this mechanism requires some "infrastructure" to work, and you could argue that this evolutionary mechanism must have been created, I think this mechanism could also be explained naturally as a byproduct of simpler organic reactions. In other words, I believe there are many phenomena happening in the microscopic world that we ignore and that can explain the emergence of life.

I see all these natural processes as manifestations of divinity. The problem is that many people think that once they "understand" a natural phenomenon, there is nothing else to know, and this is WRONG. The only things we can truly understand are the models and ideas in our minds, not the real phenomena themselves.

For example, we can study the life of an insect—its body, its colors—but we are completely unable to observe, measure, or comprehend the experience this insect has of being itself. We can see everything on the outside, but we see nothing on the inside. And for this insect, the only real thing is its experience—its internal reality.

The internal reality is real because of what is said in Luke 11:40:

"You foolish people! The same one who made what is outside also made what is inside."

And yet we see nothing of the inside and know nothing of the inside... but the inside is real.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Evolution does not work as it is presented today, and many people defending evolution have not spent enough time making simulations that clearly show the current mechanism taught in schools is flawed and unable to produce complexity.

But...

I have conducted many tests on this, and there are alternate mechanisms that can produce complex organisms from simple ones without any "intelligence" behind them. In fact, you can obtain the basic body shapes observed in nature.

While it is true that this mechanism requires some "infrastructure" to work, and you could argue that this evolutionary mechanism must have been created, I think this mechanism could also be explained naturally as a byproduct of simpler organic reactions. In other words, I believe there are many phenomena happening in the microscopic world that we ignore and that can explain the emergence of life.

I see all these natural processes as manifestations of divinity. The problem is that many people think that once they "understand" a natural phenomenon, there is nothing else to know, and this is WRONG. The only things we can truly understand are the models and ideas in our minds, not the real phenomena themselves.

For example, we can study the life of an insect—its body, its colors—but we are completely unable to observe, measure, or comprehend the experience this insect has of being itself. We can see everything on the outside, but we see nothing on the inside. And for this insect, the only real thing is its experience—its internal reality.

The internal reality is real because of what is said in Luke 11:40:

"You foolish people! The same one who made what is outside also made what is inside."

And yet we see nothing of the inside and know nothing of the inside... but the inside is real.

"Evolution" is a social concept, you know. Take human society for instance, this long progress from hunter gatherer tribes to medieval feudalism all the way up to today's capitalism and democracy, then perhaps, in near future, AI-dominated socialism and technocracy, that's the evolution of human society; another example, history of movies, from a sequence of horse gallop pictures to silent movies, "talkies", techincolor, VHS tapes, all the way up to today's AI-generated footage, that's the evolution of movies. This is indeed a development from simple to complex, no doubt about that; but that's NOT a natural phenomenon, and it can't be applied to nature.

 

[miamited]

Hi LOOKING

Evolution does not negate the fact that GOD CREATED US FROM DUST.

I realize that you believe that to be a true statement, but it isn't.

Where is the vault?

It's above your head every day. If you look at the earth from just outside of it, you can clearly see it circling the earth. It keeps our atmosphere surrounding the earth so that we can live. Entering the vault is what creates the heat to our space vehicles as they enter into the vault that surrounds the earth. Otherwise, space vehicles could fly into our atmosphere with no more heat than when they fly to the surface of the moon. It's always been there. I see it every day.

But look, you're free to believe what you believe to be the truth. But trying to play dumb to what are obvious things concerning God's word isn't likely going to show much wisdom. God's word says that He created the first man, who He calls Adam in His testimony to us, from the dust of the earth. Now, if Adam is some sort of being that, over billions of years, came to exist from some previously existing creature, then God may have created that creature from dust, but He didn't create Adam from dust. But God's word testifies to us that He did actually create the first man, Adam, from dust.

There is a vault surrounding the earth. No, it's not a bank vault. That's a different kind of vault. But it is a vault that secures our atmosphere just as a bank vault secures the contents inside of it. That's what a vault means and does.

I have the feeling of holding a book that contains all the wisdom of the universe, while people are discussing the color of its cover without opening it.

I imagine that makes some sort of sense to you. And according to you, the book you're holding doesn't contain all the wisdom of the universe. The books and theories written by man's science apparently holds more wisdom of the universe to you. That's ok, but I disagree. We each one, you, me, the person next to us, all believe what we are convinced in our own minds is the truth. For me, I believe how God has described our coming into existence and this created realm in which we live.

The Scriptures declare to us that God is worthy of all of our praise and honor and power because He created all things. That by His will things were created and have their being. According to His testimony, all of the plants and animals, and man, were created by His specific command as a kind. An amoeba didn't coalesce over millions of years into a fish and then a bird and then a tiger and then some ape creature and then a man. God created man in His image. He didn't create amoebas in His image, that over billions and trillions of years became a man in His image. But if you believe that, that's ok. What I can tell you is that one day we will all know, not guess at, but know the truth. It will sadly be too late for some to go back and say, "Oh yea! I believe it now."

God created this realm in which we live. He started by commanding that the earth, a single body of rock and other solids to just exist. Then, over a period of six rotations of that single body existing in all of the universe of black inky space that surrounds us, He created upon the earth all that would be needed for a creature of His final making that He called man. We live in a created realm. Created by a being, who represents Himself to us as God, Yahweh. He created this realm in which we live. It was all created in what to us is a mere flash in time, but God said that it was done over 6 days. A day being defined in the same way that a day is defined today, one full rotation of the planet upon its axis. He even says that He divided each day by morning and evening and closes out His account of each day's work by having been the span of one morning and evening. Now, I don't really know how smart you believe yourself to be, but nobody would define an age as consisting of one evening and morning. God is all that powerful. He has given you a clear and fairly concise account of all that He has done that you live a life upon this earth today in the year that we account as 2025. But apparently, because great men of science tell you that's not true, you believe them over God. Likely because it's just too hard for your mind to conceive of such a being that He can merely speak whole universes of stars and planets and asteroids into existence just by commanding that it be so. But that is what God's testimony to us says that He did.

Now He has proven that He does live and exist by sending one named Jesus to also testify of the work and existence of this God who tells us all these things. I'm with Jesus. I believe God.

 

[LOOKING]

It's above your head every day. If you look at the earth from just outside of it, you can clearly see it circling the earth. It keeps our atmosphere surrounding the earth so that we can live.

First of all, there is no vault retaining our atmosphere. The only thing that retains Earth's atmosphere is Earth's gravity; you seem to be confused about this.
Second, this interpretation of "vault" does not explain what "waters" it is separating, because, according to what you say, it separates space from the atmosphere, not waters.
Third, you are using a metaphorical sense of "vault," not a literal sense. People believed there was a literal vault above our heads for centuries—a solid one. Now we know this literal interpretation is wrong, as is any form of superficial reading.

You admit that "vault" is used as a metaphor to define the atmosphere. So, you are admitting that the literal meaning of "vault" is not a valid interpretation because, obviously, there is no literal vault—at least not as people understand vaults. But if I say that the creation of man from dust is also a metaphor, then I'm denying the Bible...

Fine...

And according to you, the book you're holding doesn't contain all the wisdom of the universe.

Yes, it contains wisdom, but only for those who look beyond the surface of things. And no, this wisdom is not technical, as you claim.

For me, I believe how God has described our coming into existence and this created realm in which we live.

No, you don't believe there is a literal vault. Even if you claim that your interpretation is literal, it isn't, and you admitted it. A rocket does not collide with any vault, and nothing retains our atmosphere other than gravity.
You interpret "vault" as something else (which I still don't fully understand).

But if you are so convinced that a literal interpretation is the correct one, how do you explain that Jesus systematically used parables? These parables have multiple interpretations, and Jesus did this on purpose... why?

A day being defined in the same way that a day is defined today, one full rotation of the planet upon its axis. He even says that He divided each day by morning and evening and closes out His account of each day's work by having been the span of one morning and evening.

And all this should be taken literally ... not like the vault ...

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I realize that you believe that to be a true statement, but it isn't.

That depends on your own definition of the term "evolution" and where it applies.

 

[miamited]

You admit that "vault" is used as a metaphor to define the atmosphere.

No, I never admitted any such thing. There is an actual atmosphere surrounding our planet. That's a vault. I merely stated that the 'vault' of the atmosphere does the same thing that a 'vault' of a safe does. I don't know where you found that to be a metaphor, but it honestly doesn't surprise me that you would.

Yes, it contains wisdom, but only for those who look beyond the surface of things. And no, this wisdom is not technical, as you claim.

No, I've never considered the Scriptures to be 'technical' in any way. However it is that you define that term, I just consider the Scriptures to be true. I don't know that truth really can be used as a simile for technical.

No, you don't believe there is a literal vault.

I really don't know why you feel that your claim that I don't believe there is a literal vault, is true. I've explained that there is a literal vault that surrounds the earth. You can actually see it just outside of the atmosphere of our planet in space. Here's a picture of it: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...ry.jpg/560px-ISS-46_Soyuz_TMA-17M_reentry.jpg

This is a real picture of the vault that surrounds our planet that comprises the atmosphere that keeps us alive. God created this vault for that purpose... according to His testimony to us. Now, you're free to believe that however you like or to understand it however you like. It's fine with me. But it is there and we have pictures of it.

And all this should be taken literally ... not like the vault ...

No, even the vault is literal. But again, you're free to believe as you will. If you can't understand it, well, you might consider that there is a place that speaks of a man's inability to understand the things of God:

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
That's what Paul wrote about those who can't seem to accept that things that come from the Spirit of God. That person considers them to be foolishness. And, according to this piece of writing in the Scriptures, can't understand them. You may take that as you will. But like I say, I believe as Jesus believed. That God created this realm in which we exist. He merely commanded it to exist and it did. All fully functioning, and according to God Himself, good, very good.
I honestly don't understand why someone who believes in the power of God as it is shown to us over and over and over again throughout the Scriptures can't understand that we live in a realm that was merely created by this powerful, wise, omniscient being who reveals Himself to us in a group of written testimonies to us to explain to us how we got here, when we came to be, and where this is all headed. That God loves us and wants us to live eternally with Him, but He cannot abide with sin. So, in this realm of His creating He has also created a way in which we can live with Him. Not through any metaphor or simile, but through the life of a child born from a woman who had never had sexual relations who grew to be a man who, by living the life that God's word asks us to live, has shown us the way back to that God who created all that is and will one day roll it all up like a scroll. Friend, one day every eye will see just how fast God can create an entire realm of existence by just the command of His word.

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

He's going to do it all again and you'll get to see it as it happens the next time.

 

[miamited]

That depends on your own definition of the term "evolution" and where it applies.

Hi Carry_Your_Name

I contend that it doesn't have any bearing on the term 'evolution' and where it applies.

But, I'm willing to hear you out. How should the term evolution be determined that makes my statement untrue? Write out for me your definition of the term and how it should be applied to this discussion. Yes, I do agree that we do have evolution in this life. The computer has evolved from some gargantuan device that needed entire buildings to hold its hardware, to our now being able to have even more such computing power in the palm of our hand. The computer has certainly evolved.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The computer has certainly evolved.

I don’t need to spell it out for you, you’ve described it yourself. The thing is, “Evolution” is a sociological term, it’s NOT a natural process from simple to complex. What IS a natural process and often mistaken for “evolution” is VARIATION.

 

[miamited]

I don’t need to spell it out for you, you’ve described it yourself. The thing is, “Evolution” is a sociological term, it’s NOT a natural process from simple to complex. What IS a natural process and often mistaken for “evolution” is VARIATION.

Yes, I would agree with that. And I have no problem accepting that some small changes can occur in living organisms to adjust to something like climate change or pollution. But it isn't anything that's ever going to lead to different types or kinds of species. And it's a lot more rare than evolutionists would like us to believe.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, I would agree with that. And I have no problem accepting that some small changes can occur in living organisms to adjust to something like climate change or pollution. But it isn't anything that's ever going to lead to different types or kinds of species. And it's a lot more rare than evolutionists would like us to believe.

Then there's nothing more to argue. Nature itself as God's creation has no creative power. Genetic code in DNA is intelligent design, by no means can it naturally occur.

 

[miamited]

Gee what are we going to do now that we aren't arguing? LOL

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Gee what are we going to do now that we aren't arguing? LOL

Just beware of the clever deception from the godless evolutionists. There's a saying from Selina Kyle: "the best liars always tell the truth." What's dangerous is the way that they present the truth to you which leads to erroneous presumptions and conclusions. You gotta be able to detect a false premise and debunk the argument before you instinctively react and follow their lead. Often times as soon as you accept their definition and terms, you already lose.

 

[LOOKING]

There is an actual atmosphere surrounding our planet.

At the end the important thing is faith. If believing bible literally works for you ... then it's fine.