[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is not based on empirical evidence

[Quath]

Basically, if the universe needs a creator because it is so perfect, then its creator must be more perfect. Thus, if the creator is perfect, he must have been created as well. It is just basic logic. What that means is you can't use the argument "Everything is so perfect it must be designed."

You can say that God is eternal. However, you can say the same thing about the universe. Standard Big Bang Theory has the universe existing for all of time. (Even though time has a start). So the universe is just as eternal as God would be.

Quath

 

[Guest]

Basically, if the universe needs a creator because it is so perfect, then its creator must be more perfect. Thus, if the creator is perfect, he must have been created as well. It is just basic logic. What that means is you can't use the argument "Everything is so perfect it must be designed."

You can say that God is eternal. However, you can say the same thing about the universe. Standard Big Bang Theory has the universe existing for all of time. (Even though time has a start). So the universe is just as eternal as God would be.

Quath

:B-fly: No Quath,in my opinion thats not logic,thats crackers!!!
I didn't say anything is perfect,although God is,and if he were not perfect
how would our limited brain figure it out? man cannot know all things,and
what Man doesn't know today might be revealed to him tomorrow. Thats
also the beauty of God,we can still learn things everyday. If God didn't
create this world,we could not learn from it like we do.
If you knew everything you'd know too much to live. First of all,when God
made the Heavens in Genesis,do you think he was talking about the Heavens that he was already living in? Where do you suppose God was
at all this time? There are many levels of Heavens,and I don't believe he
left his dwelling place or invented his home when he made the earth and
the sky. The fact is,man is still learning,and the more time goes by the
more man will learn. I know that we cannot possibly think we know every
thing. Even the holy bible is being revealed to us more now than it had in
the past. People didn't understand the bible very much,but now better than
95% is being understood thanks to man kind learning and growing in intelligence. The bible says that in the last days knowledge shall increase and it is and it has and will continue to do so,but even when the whole world finally knows God exists,some will shake their fists at him,and show
hatred for him because they blame God when the get punished. They just
cannot connect the dots to the fact that their sinful ways cause them to be
under wrath and severe punishment. whether people can accept it or not
it's up to them,but we must all humble ourselves before the Holy God of
Heaven and Earth. Too many people are way too proud and too puffed up
to do that. Thats a shame to.
The Bible is being opened up to the world now,and knowledge is increasing
yet many people still refuse to accept the truth about God.

 

[Guest]

The Tuatha'an/You asked why children don't listen to their parents, in reference to why people don't listen to God. I said because the Parents don't threaten their children with eternal hell if they don't listen. Which is what God does.

That's not a choice, that's an ultimatem

:roll: What total garbage! If you don't believe it,you cannot fear it!!!
Does the fear of going to the lake of fire cause people to be saved?
If it did,then everyone would be saved with your reasoning!!!
Thats nutty!Like I have said before, I was worldly once.
I wouldn't want to go back to that way of life for anything,amen.
Sin doesn't mean that much to me when all it did was wreck my life.
Sin is terrible,and I hate it. I hate it when I do it,and I hate it when
others do it,because it always manages to hurt someone.
You don't need an expert to tell you that living without God in your life
makes your life empty,you get to witness it first hand. You cannot fool
someone whose been where you are before.
I don't envy the lost,and I wouldn't trade places with any lost person.
There is no fear in loving God,and if you make a mistake,you are forgiven,but without God,you have every reason to be afraid and be in
constant fear. Just break down and humble yourself,if not,then don't
complain. I don't think you'll understand any of this until you hit rock
bottom,and even then,you still may not,but someone did try to tell you.
That makes you without an excuse on judgement day,even though you
already are without an excuse because of creation and nature.
Hitler predicted what prophecy that came true? Oh',his own destruction?

 

[Guest]

[quote="The Tuatha'an
Aborting fetus' isn't a punishment for doing something wrong. I don't hear about too many parents drowning their children.

:B-fly: So abortion is an act of love to the unborn baby?
I don't think so,watch a film of an actual abortion taking place and
even though that poor baby is so tiny,it still tries to fight for his or her
life. Murder of babies is cruelty,and it's an act of pure hate!!!
You don't have to be smart to know this,so you can understand that.

Why don't you back up your ghastly opinions for once?

 

[Guest]

: Andrea Yates drowned her children.
Diana Downs shot her children.
another lady in the news awhile back drowned her two little
boys by causing her car to plung in a river while the boys were
in their seat belts,then she lied and said they were kidknaped.
The name Smith comes to mind.

 

[Sophistress]

[quote="The Tuatha'an
Aborting fetus' isn't a punishment for doing something wrong. I don't hear about too many parents drowning their children.

:B-fly: So abortion is an act of love to the unborn baby?
I don't think so,watch a film of an actual abortion taking place and
even though that poor baby is so tiny,it still tries to fight for his or her
life. Murder of babies is cruelty,and it's an act of pure hate!!!
You don't have to be smart to know this,so you can understand that.

Why don't you back up your ghastly opinions for once?

Just look around you, blue. Look around at all the unwanted children, all the children living in poverty, without an education, without loving parents. Look around you, and then tell me that it's a loving thing to bring a child into a world where they cannot and will not prosper. Your naivety screams out to me.

 

[Asimov]

What total garbage! If you don't believe it,you cannot fear it!!!

then once again, why don't people believe in God? Because there is no evidence to suggest he exists.

Does the fear of going to the lake of fire cause people to be saved?
If it did,then everyone would be saved with your reasoning!!!

Fear is a huge part of people going to religion. They fear death, they fear what they think is hell. They fear not being alone.

Sin doesn't mean that much to me when all it did was wreck my life.
Sin is terrible,and I hate it. I hate it when I do it,and I hate it when
others do it,because it always manages to hurt someone.

You're right, bad things are bad... :roll:

You don't need an expert to tell you that living without God in your life
makes your life empty,you get to witness it first hand. You cannot fool
someone whose been where you are before.

That's where you're wrong. I feel no different with or without God. Trying to believe in God is like trying to believe Santa exists.

I don't think you'll understand any of this until you hit rock
bottom,and even then,you still may not,but someone did try to tell you.
That makes you without an excuse on judgement day,even though you
already are without an excuse because of creation and nature.
Hitler predicted what prophecy that came true? Oh',his own destruction?

Blue, when you say someone did try to tell me, you mean your attempts at witnessing, I'd have to say you do a pretty poor job of it.

You lie, you misrepresent facts, you don't make any sense at all in your arguments, and you put on this air of superiority that totally pushes everyone away. Even Christians such as Cubedbee seem to feel alienated from you, because of your unwillingness to face truth.

 

[Asimov]

So abortion is an act of love to the unborn baby?

Did I say that?? I said it wasn't a form of punishment, and therefore is irrelevant to the discussion.

Why don't you back up your ghastly opinions for once?

With what?? I wasn't attempting to argue about abortion, as it's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Asimov]

: Andrea Yates drowned her children.
Diana Downs shot her children.
another lady in the news awhile back drowned her two little
boys by causing her car to plung in a river while the boys were
in their seat belts,then she lied and said they were kidknaped.
The name Smith comes to mind.

Just a minority of the crazies who live in this world. They don't represent every single parent.

Do you hit your kids??

 

[Sophistress]

: Andrea Yates drowned her children.
Diana Downs shot her children.
another lady in the news awhile back drowned her two little
boys by causing her car to plung in a river while the boys were
in their seat belts,then she lied and said they were kidknaped.
The name Smith comes to mind.

Funnily enough, her kids were called Noah, Mary, Luke, Paul and John. I think we all know what she was on.

 

[Asimov]

Funnily enough, her kids were called Noah, Mary, Luke, Paul and John. I think we all know what she was on.

I'm willing to bet it wasn't WonkaVit

 

[Guest]

[quote="The Tuatha'an
Aborting fetus' isn't a punishment for doing something wrong. I don't hear about too many parents drowning their children.

:B-fly: So abortion is an act of love to the unborn baby?
I don't think so,watch a film of an actual abortion taking place and
even though that poor baby is so tiny,it still tries to fight for his or her
life. Murder of babies is cruelty,and it's an act of pure hate!!!
You don't have to be smart to know this,so you can understand that.

Why don't you back up your ghastly opinions for once?

Just look around you, blue. Look around at all the unwanted children, all the children living in poverty, without an education, without loving parents. Look around you, and then tell me that it's a loving thing to bring a child into a world where they cannot and will not prosper. Your naivety screams out to me.

:B-fly: Really? The time to choose not to get pregnant is before a
pregnancy happens not after! Whose not aware of reality?
Why have sex at all if you run the risk of getting pregnant?
There are many great reasons not to have sex until you can
handle what can happen,killing a new life is not the answer,so
it's really ignorant to blame what you did wrong on the unborn.
Thats what I call really stupid!

 

[Asimov]

Why have sex at all if you run the risk of getting pregnant?

Why drive a car if you run the risk of hitting someone?[/quote]

There are many great reasons not to have sex until you can
handle what can happen,killing a new life is not the answer,so
it's really ignorant to blame what you did wrong on the unborn.
Thats what I call really stupid!

There are many great reasons not to drive a car either.

Nobodies blaming what they did wrong on the unborn

 

[Guest]

Why have sex at all if you run the risk of getting pregnant?

Why drive a car if you run the risk of hitting someone?

There are many great reasons not to have sex until you can
handle what can happen,killing a new life is not the answer,so
it's really ignorant to blame what you did wrong on the unborn.
Thats what I call really stupid!

There are many great reasons not to drive a car either.

Nobodies blaming what they did wrong on the unborn[/quote]

:B-fly: Here is where your so called logic rests. I am so happy we
don't all think like you do.
You should have a liscense to drive. Driving wreckless is against the
law. People who have a good driving record are free to drive alot more
often. Safety first. When you know what you are doing,you make better
choices,amen.

 

[Guest]

The Tuatha'an/
Nobodies blaming what they did wrong on the unborn

8-) If there is no blame,why are they not allowed to live then?
Abortion is a sign of love towards the unborn?
Doesn't abortion say to the unborn baby that,"My life is more important
than your life,so you have to die?" Abortion puts the woman first and it
rewards her for choosing to have sex that resulted in an unwanted -
baby. Why have sex then if you are not able to handle the risks?
Why drive a car if you don't understand the rules of the road?

 

[Sophistress]

Blueeyeliner, do you realise your signature is misspelled? Poor grammar and spelling bug me somewhat.

Also, I'd be interested to know if you think women that have been raped should be allowed abortions? After all, they didn't make a conscious choice to have sex. How about if the unborn baby is a risk to the mother's life; physical, mental or otherwise?

 

[Asimov]

Here is where your so called blah blah blah....

You should have a liscense to drive. Driving wreckless is against the law. People who have a good driving record are free to drive alot more
often. Safety first. When you know what you are doing,you make better
choices,amen.

Did I say that people drive wrecklessly? No, driving misshaps happen all the time, it's nobodies fault. Sometimes people die as a result of it, and nobody is to blame. Yet every day we all take the risk in getting in that car, that maybe, a car will slip on some ice, or in the rain, and someone will die. This happens even to people who know what they are doing.

 

[Asimov]

Abortion is a sign of love towards the unborn?
Doesn't abortion say to the unborn baby that,"My life is more important
than your life,so you have to die?" Abortion puts the woman first and it
rewards her for choosing to have sex that resulted in an unwanted -
baby.

We can argue about this all day on the pros and cons of abortions, this is irrelevant to the topic at hand, and derailment of the thread. I already told you that abortion isn't part of the discussion at hand. As it's not a form of punishment.

Now, do you or did you hit your kids?

 

[Guest]

Blueeyeliner, do you realise your signature is misspelled? Poor grammar and spelling bug me somewhat.

Also, I'd be interested to know if you think women that have been raped should be allowed abortions? After all, they didn't make a conscious choice to have sex. How about if the unborn baby is a risk to the mother's life; physical, mental or otherwise?

8-) Heathen,you already know what bugs me,yet you keep right on
doing it,so I just tune it out. Who cares whether you like my spelling,ect...
I don't like your clear lack of morals.
If a woman has been raped,she needs to take this up with God,and get
some christian advise,because how in the world will another act of violence help her? There is adoption,amen.
It appears that you are saying that it's unfair to be raped while talking
on the other side of your mouth by saying that gives a woman the right
to kill an unborn baby who had nothing to do with it. Are you saying that
rape victims should also take an innocent life?
If having a baby is a risk to the womans life,she should get a second
opinion since abortion has been proven to risk a womans life for sure,and
if a woman is in such bad shape,she sure doesn't need to be having sex on top of it. If she is ill because of her pregnancy,then this must be a
personal choice that only she can make.

 

[Guest]

Abortion is a sign of love towards the unborn?
Doesn't abortion say to the unborn baby that,"My life is more important
than your life,so you have to die?" Abortion puts the woman first and it
rewards her for choosing to have sex that resulted in an unwanted -
baby.

We can argue about this all day on the pros and cons of abortions, this is irrelevant to the topic at hand, and derailment of the thread. I already told you that abortion isn't part of the discussion at hand. As it's not a form of punishment.

:x

AND as I have already told you,ABORTION is MURDER,it is also HATE!
Not only does it punish an innocent life,but it's a hate crime!!!
I do not beat up on my children,but what does that have to do with
abortion,a clear act of violence and hate?
I happen to love children,but what would you know about children?