[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is not based on empirical evidence

[Sophistress]

It's great that you are willing to challenge yourself.
Unlike you I know that I am not wrong,because I know God is
right. So it's not that I'm right,it's that God is right. His word is
the truth about him.

Well, you can say that, but you certainly can't prove it. If you were debating a Muslim, Jew, Witch, or somebody of any other religion and they said they knew they were right because God or Goddess had revealed his self/her self to them in many ways, would you believe them? Now you see my predicament. Just because you believe you're right, does not mean you are. In my mind I can conjure anything. I have an active imagination, and if I want to I can basically talk to myself. It's called intuition. It's not God. When you say you know God is real because he has revealed himself to you, can you explain to me why you are any more correct than a Muslim, Jew, Wiccan who also believe the same?

He may appear one way to you,but in another
way to me. If you feel that I have no evidence,then how can I be
of any help to you?
I believe if you mean what you said,you will seek God.
When you really seek him,you will find him.

I can tell you right now that I will always be an Atheist. I know that religion is nothing but an emotional crutch. I have survived for 16 years without this crutch - lost 2 grandparents - didn't need Jesus. Even if God came and revealed himself to me I would not believe. I would pack my things and take myself directly to the nearest psychiatrists.

 

[Guest]

[quote="Hawkman

Suppose a man told you that psychic powers were real, but was unable to present evidence to support this claim. Would you find it reasonable to believe his claim, or to disbelieve it?

:B-fly: I totally disagree with you. I have every reason to share the
truth,even if it's not what you want to hear or know about. You don't
realize that I have heard these same attacks over and over again,and
they don't help your case one tiny bit. This is a very famous tactic.
Claiming that the christian has no evidence is everywhere.
You have shown no evidence at all to support yourself.
I believe the bible is evidence,and knowing this,of course I wouldn't
believe in any psychic or his side kick even if he did show strange
things or make things appear from thin air. The Bible tells us about
these things and what they can do. There are strange wonders and
signs that can and do appear,so test the spirits like the bible says to do.
If all it takes for you to believe in something is for them to make things
appear in front of you,then you will be easy to fool all your life and by
the Anti-Christ when he performs all his magic tricks like signs and wonders and he'll even do miracles,but they will not be of God,they will
be wicked and they will fool the weak into following the global leadership.
the weak minded will believe in magic and false signs and wonders,but
as for the child of God,God gave us his book so we know what to look
out for,amen. TEST EVERY SPIRIT!!!

 

[Sophistress]

[quote="Hawkman

Suppose a man told you that psychic powers were real, but was unable to present evidence to support this claim. Would you find it reasonable to believe his claim, or to disbelieve it?

:B-fly: I totally disagree with you. I have every reason to share the
truth,even if it's not what you want to hear or know about. You don't
realize that I have heard these same attacks over and over again,and
they don't help your case one tiny bit. This is a very famous tactic.
Claiming that the christian has no evidence is everywhere.
You have shown no evidence at all to support yourself.

Sorry blueeyeliner, but people do believe in psychic powers, and many appear to have proof. People believe in UFOs - they claim to see them, there are crop circles and there are photographs. Now, me being an Atheist, and by my reason of thought I can conclude that these people did not see UFOs - they think they did, or they lied to push their agenda. I believe crop circles and photographs are faked, just as I believe the Bible is fake and not the word of God. But by your reason of thinking, you have no right to say that UFOs don't exist because they have not been disproven.

 

[Guest]

[quote="Hawkman

Suppose a man told you that psychic powers were real, but was unable to present evidence to support this claim. Would you find it reasonable to believe his claim, or to disbelieve it?

:B-fly: I totally disagree with you. I have every reason to share the
truth,even if it's not what you want to hear or know about. You don't
realize that I have heard these same attacks over and over again,and
they don't help your case one tiny bit. This is a very famous tactic.
Claiming that the christian has no evidence is everywhere.
You have shown no evidence at all to support yourself.

Sorry blueeyeliner, but people do believe in psychic powers, and many appear to have proof. People believe in UFOs - they claim to see them, there are crop circles and there are photographs. Now, me being an Atheist, and by my reason of thought I can conclude that these people did not see UFOs - they think they did, or they lied to push their agenda. I believe crop circles and photographs are faked, just as I believe the Bible is fake and not the word of God. But by your reason of thinking, you have no right to say that UFOs don't exist because they have not been disproven.

:roll: :roll: :roll: Demons do exist and satan exists.
So then everything in your world is fake,right?
Were you born to be this way?

 

[Sophistress]

Demons do exist and satan exists.

Prove it. Plus, this has nothing to do with my point about UFOs.

So then everything in your world is fake,right?

Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness.

Were you born to be this way?

And what way would that be?

 

[Hawkman]

I totally disagree with you. I have every reason to share the
truth,even if it's not what you want to hear or know about.

What are you talking about? I wasn't addressing your reasons for sharing your supposed truth, nor was I disputing your motivations. All I said was that you have presented no arguments and no evidence in support of your claims, and therefore it is reasonable to doubt them.

Like I said, suppose a man told you that psychic powers were real but was unable to support his assertion. Naturally we're not going to take the assertion as being true until evidence is presented in favor of it. By the same token, we're not going to take you seriously until you defend your claims.

You don't
realize that I have heard these same attacks over and over again,and
they don't help your case one tiny bit. This is a very famous tactic. Claiming that the christian has no evidence is everywhere.

Yes, I suspect that asking for evidence is a famous tactic. In fact, it's quite valid. Unfortunately for your self-righteous attitude, it hardly constitutes an attack.

You're pinned to the wall. You can't ignore this, blueeyeliner. If you have no evidence for your case, then you won't be able to save yourself by taking a defensive attitude, nor will yet more assertions help you.

I believe the bible is evidence,and knowing this,of course I wouldn't
believe in any psychic or his side kick even if he did show strange
things or make things appear from thin air. The Bible tells us about
these things and what they can do. There are strange wonders and
signs that can and do appear,so test the spirits like the bible says to do.

Skepticism is warranted when dealing with extraordinary claims. Unfortunately for you, you aren't skeptical, you're just doubly credulous. You've just admitted that you believe in things with no supporting evidence and would refuse to believe in other things even if they did have supporting evidence.

If all it takes for you to believe in something is for them to make things
appear in front of you,then you will be easy to fool all your life and by
the Anti-Christ when he performs all his magic tricks like signs and wonders and he'll even do miracles,but they will not be of God,they will
be wicked and they will fool the weak into following the global leadership.
the weak minded will believe in magic and false signs and wonders,but
as for the child of God,God gave us his book so we know what to look
out for,amen. TEST EVERY SPIRIT!!!

Yes, no doubt the Antichrist will be coming any day now. Any day. Yup. I mean, your assertions have been so convincing thus far, I have no doubt that this last one will turn out to be true.

 

[Hawkman]

Demons do exist and satan exists.

That's another non-sequitur, not to mention yet another unsupported assertion.

I seriously don't see what blueeyeliner is trying to do. Instead of making a case for her previous assertions, she just keeps making up more! In other places, it's possible that this tactic would succeed in distracting her opponents from her earlier posts, but this thread is moving too slowly for that. Furthermore, it doesn't excuse her from presenting evidence.

So let's see what you have, blueeyeliner. Please present evidence for your assertions. Heck, please feel free to present evidence for any of your assertions.

 

[Asimov]

Furthermore, it doesn't excuse her from presenting evidence.

which wont happen.

 

[Sophistress]

In regards to the claim that the cave of John the Baptist has been discovered, the official skepticism (with good right, and what's more some proof) has begun:

Some experts question John the Baptist claim

Archaeologist reports proof of John the Baptist

05:53 PM CDT on Friday, August 20, 2004

By JEFFREY WEISS / The Dallas Morning News

An announcement this week by a British archaeologist that he has discovered a cave used by John the Baptist has been met by skepticism from other experts in the field.

Shimon Gibson's new book is The Cave of John the Baptist: The Stunning Archaeological Discovery that has Redefined Christian History (Doubleday, $26).

"That's hype," said Kristin M. Romey, managing editor of Archaeology Magazine. "It's the archaeological equivalent of putting a sad-eyed puppy dog or a busty blond on the cover."

Ms. Romey and other archaeologists say that Mr. Gibson has done some good science. They say he has evidence that the cave was used for rituals as many as 2,700 years ago. And that early Christians linked the cave to John the Baptist, three centuries or more after the era of the New Testament.

John the Baptist is named in the New Testament. The Gospel accounts describe him as a fiery, prophetic preacher with a considerable following who performed a river baptism of Jesus, a cousin.

Mr. Gibson says the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that the cave was actually used by the preacher and his followers.

But that takes a leap of faith, said Steven Ortiz, director of the Center for Archaeological Research at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary.

Bible accounts put John's ministry in the Jordan River valley, Dr. Ortiz said, far from the cave located near what is now modern Jerusalem.

Even if a religious group used the cave 2,000 years ago, we can't say which one, he said. "During that period and in that area you had many rabbis with followers."

 

[BenjaminTC]

...debating a Muslim, Jew, Witch, or somebody of any other religion and they said they knew they were right because God or Goddess had revealed his self/her self to them in many ways, would you believe them? Now you see my predicament.

Here is one of my favorite quotes:

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
--Stephen Roberts

 

[Sophistress]

I love that one too. So true, so true. Unfortunately, many are unable to grasp this.

 

[Guest]

Demons do exist and satan exists.

Prove it. Plus, this has nothing to do with my point about UFOs.

[quote:10d0e]So then everything in your world is fake,right?

Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness.

Were you born to be this way?

And what way would that be?[/quote:10d0e]

:B-fly: Demons use curse words,ALOT! Get saved and you'll get proof
sooner or later,no doubt! demons have everything to do with UFO's,duh!
If talking to yourself is the first sign of your madness,how would you know
this?
Were you born an atheist?
Did you have a choice or not?

 

[Guest]

I can tell you right now that I will always be an Atheist. I know that religion is nothing but an emotional crutch. I have survived for 16 years without this crutch - lost 2 grandparents - didn't need Jesus. Even if God came and revealed himself to me I would not believe. I would pack my things and take myself directly to the nearest psychiatrists.

:D Thats right,you have really lived! 16 teen years old huh?
Do you want to know how many 16 year olds I have known?
I have lost more than two grandparents,and I have been 16 myself
not so long ago,and I can tell you right now,you are right when you
say you wouldn't believe. You made your choice already. I hope you
will stay honest like this and encourage your friends like you to come
out with it and be honest too.
You don't want God to be real,and thats the truth.
Too bad for you he is real,but great news for me,amen.

 

[Sophistress]

Thats right,you have really lived! 16 teen years old huh?
Do you want to know how many 16 year olds I have known?
I have lost more than two grandparents,and I have been 16 myself
not so long ago,and I can tell you right now,you are right when you
say you wouldn't believe.

I said I have been an Atheist for 16 years. I did not say I was currently 16 years old.

You made your choice already.I hope you
will stay honest like this and encourage your friends like you to come
out with it and be honest too.
You don't want God to be real,and thats the truth.
Too bad for you he is real,but great news for me,amen.

I search for the truth. How can I believe something that has had so many holes poked in it? 1)The God of the Bible is an impossibility; a paradox. 2)The Bible is riddled with contradictions especially between the Old and New Testament. 3)It's likely Jesus never existed as none of the historians at the time mentioned him, despite all his apparent miracles. 4)The Bible seems misinformed when it comes to natural phenomena. We know the world isn't flat, yet the Bible refers to it as such several times suggesting that men wrote it not knowing any better. 5)The Bible is full of immorality which today most would deem inappropriate to society. 6)I cannot find one prophesy that has been fulfilled (unless it's self-fulfilling between the Old and New Testament). Many Bibles prophesise things that were never prophesies in original text (the KJV being one of the biggest culprits). 7)People claim to have the Holy Spirit in them, yet the sheer number of sects and denominations (Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Mormon, JW, Catholic, etc...) leads me to ask how they can all have the Holy Spirit in them, yet all believe such different things. It just doesn't make sense to me.

So you see, I don't make myself not believe in the Judeo-Christian God, I just find it impossible to whilst knowing all this at the same time. I can't lie to myself - I can't make myself look for something that clearly isn't there. Believe me, I would love to have somebody looking out for me all the time, and I would love to be able to go to 'heaven' when I, or anyone I love dies. But just because I want it, doesn't make it so.

 

[Quath]

Were you born an atheist?

Everyone is born an atheist. We have to be taught of gods. That is why I sometimes call myself a born again atheist. ;)

Quath

 

[Highlander]

Religionists can never, and never do, prove anything that they claim to be true. It's painfully obvious, or certainly should be, that all of these religionists are deluded; first by their parents and then by church leaders, into believing all sorts of nonsense and are further brainwashed into never using any critical thinking to analyse what they've been told.

Were they able to look at their belief system with even an iota of logic they would have to assume that something else must be at work here, and what they've been told is mostly nonsense. To prevent the use of any logic or reliance on their own common sense they are told that such thinking is brought on by some mythical creature called satan, who obviously is trying to trick them. What a perfect set up to lock you into circular thinking.

I'm sure that P.T. Barnum used this whole concept to make his fortune. In the meantime, these gullible folks are proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time.

 

[Guest]

Thats right,you have really lived! 16 teen years old huh?
Do you want to know how many 16 year olds I have known?
I have lost more than two grandparents,and I have been 16 myself
not so long ago,and I can tell you right now,you are right when you
say you wouldn't believe.

I said I have been an Atheist for 16 years. I did not say I was currently 16 years old.


I search for the truth.

:B-fly: The truth will set you free. Read all your other posts and tell me
again if that is someone who is searching for the truth?
Like I tell my son about dating, any girl who wears false nails,and false
eyelashes and false hair is not a girl who is looking for the truth,amen.
If you look for the truth,you'll find it.
The Bible says it is the fool who says in their heart that there is no God,and I believe it!You will know them by their fruit,not lip service.

 

[Guest]

I'm sure that P.T. Barnum used this whole concept to make his fortune. In the meantime, these gullible folks are proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time.

8-) Wrong again honey bunches of oats,that would be Darwin.

 

[Guest]

Were you born an atheist?

Everyone is born an atheist. We have to be taught of gods. That is why I sometimes call myself a born again atheist. ;)

Quath

:Fade-color Wrong! Everyone is born with a "Tabula Rasa" the psycologist's claim,or an "Empty Slate",but I don't believe that.
There are births in the bible that clearly shows we are born with
some sort of information and personality traits.
If you are born an atheist,then it is in your very nature to reject
God. Many people claim they have always believed in God since they
were very small children.
Perhaps you are just fulfilling your destiny?

 

[Quath]

If you are born an atheist,then it is in your very nature to reject God. Many people claim they have always believed in God since they were very small children.

Every child that is in a religion was taught that religion. That knowledge was not instinctual. So children are taught the Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, pagan, or whatever belief. Most keep their parents beliefs and pass it on. However, children do not know any religious beliefs until they are told them.

I guess some people could make them up like the Hale Bopp people and cult leaders. But they usually rely upon religions of others to base their religion on.

Quath