[_ Old Earth _] Evolution

[felix]

This thread isn't about my lack of belief in supernatural divinities, nor about how I should go about redressing that lack of belief to your satisfaction. Let's stick to the topic. I won't reply to any further questions along these lines.

It is not any "belief" that I questioned. I just asked you to try out an experiment which can help you understand if Evolution is true or not based on the "outcome". Yet, you seem to have no interest in any "observation" which you asked for.

 

[Barbarian]

Does spirit had to evolve too?

How do you think random mutation and natural selection applies to spirits? God says a spirit has no body.

 

[felix]

How do you think random mutation and natural selection applies to spirits? God says a spirit has no body.

Yes, but a body without spirit is dead.

Does a animal spirit had to evolve into human spirit?

 

[felix]

This thread isn't about my lack of belief in supernatural divinities, nor about how I should go about redressing that lack of belief to your satisfaction. Let's stick to the topic. I won't reply to any further questions along these lines.

If an inventor invented a machine, isn't it easy to just speak with the inventor to know if such an inventor do really exist?

Have you ever tried speaking with the Creator to know if He did really create anything?

You already made up your mind that there is no Creator. Next, even if He did create, you never want to believe in Him. Which is why, you are constantly going away from asking Him and knowing the truth.

The Creator tells us to just ask. Have you ever discussed this matter with the Person who claimed to create everything?

Luke 11:10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

 

[lordkalvan]

It is not any "belief" that I questioned. I just asked you to try out an experiment which can help you understand if Evolution is true or not based on the "outcome". Yet, you seem to have no interest in any "observation" which you asked for.

Okay, explain the protocols of this 'experiment' and the hypothesis which it is testing and then tell me how it will help understand whether evolution is true or not.

 

[lordkalvan]

If an inventor invented a machine, isn't it easy to just speak with the inventor to know if such an inventor do really exist?

Have you ever tried speaking with the Creator to know if He did really create anything?

You already made up your mind that there is no Creator. Next, even if He did create, you never want to believe in Him. Which is why, you are constantly going away from asking Him and knowing the truth.

The Creator tells us to just ask. Have you ever discussed this matter with the Person who claimed to create everything?

Luke 11:10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

None of this has any relevance to whether or not evolution occurs and evolutionary theory is correct. Let's stipulate that God exists and that I believe in him - which seems to be the position of Francis Collins and Kenneth Miller. Let's further stipulate that he created the Universe. Now explain to me how any of these stipulations preclude evolution, the validity of evolutionary theory and the understanding that evolution is God's plan for accomplishing his objectives for life on Earth.

 

[felix]

Okay, explain the protocols of this 'experiment' and the hypothesis which it is testing and then tell me how it will help understand whether evolution is true or not.

Do you experiment on your wife to prove that she really exist?

Just speak to God and He will reply you.

 

[felix]

None of this has any relevance to whether or not evolution occurs and evolutionary theory is correct. Let's stipulate that God exists and that I believe in him - which seems to be the position of Francis Collins and Kenneth Miller. Let's further stipulate that he created the Universe. Now explain to me how any of these stipulations preclude evolution, the validity of evolutionary theory and the understanding that evolution is God's plan for accomplishing his objectives for life on Earth.

There is no validity of evolutionary theory to begin with. Next He is life and no one can create life. Neither there is any observed creation of life from non living.

 

[Grazer]

There is no validity of evolutionary theory to begin with. Next He is life and no one can create life. Neither there is any observed creation of life from non living.

But that's not what the evolutionary theory says. It presupposes the existence of something that can self replicate but offers no explanation as to where that came from as its not designed to.

Some atheist scientists have tried to suggest evolution theory explains the origins/creation of life but such statements go well beyond the evidence.

 

[lordkalvan]

Do you experiment on your wife to prove that she really exist?

Just speak to God and He will reply you.

So that's no protocols, no testable hypothesis and no explanation of how it will help me understand whether or not evolution is true. So how is this an experiment, exactly?

 

[lordkalvan]

There is no validity of evolutionary theory to begin with. Next He is life and no one can create life. Neither there is any observed creation of life from non living.

You seem simply to have ignored the question I asked and preferred instead to repeat the unsupported assertions that you have posted over and over throughout this thread.

 

[Arch Angle]

Yes, but a body without spirit is dead.

Does a animal spirit had to evolve into human spirit?

what observation would you use to to claim they do not? well, if you think they don't that is.

 

[Arch Angle]

what would Jesus say about evolution?
The story of the taxescomes to mind. Or even the wine story, he made more?
He went with observationsin these cases to me.

 

[felix]

But that's not what the evolutionary theory says. It presupposes the existence of something that can self replicate but offers no explanation as to where that came from as its not designed to.

Some atheist scientists have tried to suggest evolution theory explains the origins/creation of life but such statements go well beyond the evidence.

Hi Grazer, thanks for clarifying. Since I was speaking with context of Creator God creating everything, I just added it.

 

[felix]

So that's no protocols, no testable hypothesis and no explanation of how it will help me understand whether or not evolution is true. So how is this an experiment, exactly?

Use the same protocol you use to communicate with your wife and children.

Use the same hypothesis to test the existence if your wife and children. I tested this way and you too can test using my method too, as I was once an atheist: I told to God that if He did really exist, I will ask a question to You so personal to me which is not known to anyone and I will go to a "so called" preacher or pastor to pray and the answer for that question must come from his mouth. This happens not once, twice but every time I go and pray to any preacher who is godly - I even use this to test if the preacher is truly from God or just a false deceiver. The key is this: Bible says, no one knows the thoughts of your mind except God - not even the devil knows what a man thinks. A good example can be found in Dan 2. How can someone tell you what you were thinking yesterday which bothered you much but today you totally forgot what you were thinking yesterday? This hypothesis to test the existence of God is not just to test the existence of someone who can communicate to you back but God who created you who knows the thoughts and even the imagination of thoughts - all you must have is a genuine desire to know the truth.

Once you get the response back, you will know the truth yourself. The reason I just stop here is because, most people in Christianity refuse to believe in Evolution and believe in God, is not because they are silly and non-thinking superstitious people BUT they have a "personal relationship" with God who is their Creator. Christianity is all about "personal relationship with God" and a relationship is never one way. Some who have experienced this relationship, knows for sure that there is a God who created everything by standing firm on the Bible truth. Some Christians who also have experienced a personal relationship but starts wavering with the push from evolutionists and "so called" convincing evidence, will start to sacrifice the Bible truth to slowly twist Bible to fit evolution. It also depends on how much they know and have faith their Creator to believe in evolution or creation.

I can argue for ages and I can never convince you UNLESS you experience this "personal relationship with God" yourself. It all starts with a humble and simple prayer from deep within your heart with a genuine desire for truth and I am sure He is eager to respond you back. Once you are already communicating "not one way as just name-sake prayers" but a "both way with Him responding to you", how much do you think that you will push for evolution and how much will you hold on to the Bible?

Hope you understood my message and desire for you to know the truth yourself. I can never teach you the truth, but He will but ONLY if you have a genuine desire for it.

 

[Barbarian]

Yes, but a body without spirit is dead.

Show me your evidence for that.

Does a animal spirit had to evolve into human spirit?

Why are you reluctant to accept God's word? He says that men are directly given a soul by Him.

 

[felix]

Show me your evidence for that.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead ..

Why are you reluctant to accept God's word? He says that men are directly given a soul by Him.

Eccl 3:21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

Yes, men BECAME a living soul after God breathed into his nostrils.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (KJV).

If He had evolved, then God did not breathed. If this is figurative, still, God did not breathed. So, I had to ask you the same question you asked "Why are you reluctant to accept God's word?"

 

[lordkalvan]

Use the same protocol you use to communicate with your wife and children.

Use the same hypothesis to test the existence if your wife and children. I tested this way and you too can test using my method too, as I was once an atheist: I told to God that if He did really exist, I will ask a question to You so personal to me which is not known to anyone and I will go to a "so called" preacher or pastor to pray and the answer for that question must come from his mouth. This happens not once, twice but every time I go and pray to any preacher who is godly - I even use this to test if the preacher is truly from God or just a false deceiver. The key is this: Bible says, no one knows the thoughts of your mind except God - not even the devil knows what a man thinks. A good example can be found in Dan 2. How can someone tell you what you were thinking yesterday which bothered you much but today you totally forgot what you were thinking yesterday? This hypothesis to test the existence of God is not just to test the existence of someone who can communicate to you back but God who created you who knows the thoughts and even the imagination of thoughts - all you must have is a genuine desire to know the truth.

Once you get the response back, you will know the truth yourself. The reason I just stop here is because, most people in Christianity refuse to believe in Evolution and believe in God, is not because they are silly and non-thinking superstitious people BUT they have a "personal relationship" with God who is their Creator. Christianity is all about "personal relationship with God" and a relationship is never one way. Some who have experienced this relationship, knows for sure that there is a God who created everything by standing firm on the Bible truth. Some Christians who also have experienced a personal relationship but starts wavering with the push from evolutionists and "so called" convincing evidence, will start to sacrifice the Bible truth to slowly twist Bible to fit evolution. It also depends on how much they know and have faith their Creator to believe in evolution or creation.

I can argue for ages and I can never convince you UNLESS you experience this "personal relationship with God" yourself. It all starts with a humble and simple prayer from deep within your heart with a genuine desire for truth and I am sure He is eager to respond you back. Once you are already communicating "not one way as just name-sake prayers" but a "both way with Him responding to you", how much do you think that you will push for evolution and how much will you hold on to the Bible?

Hope you understood my message and desire for you to know the truth yourself. I can never teach you the truth, but He will but ONLY if you have a genuine desire for it.

I appreciate the conviction demonstrated in your post, but it has little to do with the OP. Again, scientists like Kenneth Miller and Francis Collins believe in God and are evolutionary scientists. Doctrinally, the Catholic and Anglican Churches appear to accept evolutionary theory and the fact of evolution. So your claims as to what 'most' Christians think about evolution don't seem to be deeply grounded, nor does your idea that acceptance of God leads inevitably to a rejection of evolution.

 

[Arch Angle]

Use the same protocol you use to communicate with your wife and children.

Use the same hypothesis to test the existence if your wife and children. I tested this way and you too can test using my method too, as I was once an atheist: I told to God that if He did really exist, I will ask a question to You so personal to me which is not known to anyone and I will go to a "so called" preacher or pastor to pray and the answer for that question must come from his mouth. This happens not once, twice but every time I go and pray to any preacher who is godly - I even use this to test if the preacher is truly from God or just a false deceiver. The key is this: Bible says, no one knows the thoughts of your mind except God - not even the devil knows what a man thinks. A good example can be found in Dan 2. How can someone tell you what you were thinking yesterday which bothered you much but today you totally forgot what you were thinking yesterday? This hypothesis to test the existence of God is not just to test the existence of someone who can communicate to you back but God who created you who knows the thoughts and even the imagination of thoughts - all you must have is a genuine desire to know the truth.

Once you get the response back, you will know the truth yourself. The reason I just stop here is because, most people in Christianity refuse to believe in Evolution and believe in God, is not because they are silly and non-thinking superstitious people BUT they have a "personal relationship" with God who is their Creator. Christianity is all about "personal relationship with God" and a relationship is never one way. Some who have experienced this relationship, knows for sure that there is a God who created everything by standing firm on the Bible truth. Some Christians who also have experienced a personal relationship but starts wavering with the push from evolutionists and "so called" convincing evidence, will start to sacrifice the Bible truth to slowly twist Bible to fit evolution. It also depends on how much they know and have faith their Creator to believe in evolution or creation.

I can argue for ages and I can never convince you UNLESS you experience this "personal relationship with God" yourself. It all starts with a humble and simple prayer from deep within your heart with a genuine desire for truth and I am sure He is eager to respond you back. Once you are already communicating "not one way as just name-sake prayers" but a "both way with Him responding to you", how much do you think that you will push for evolution and how much will you hold on to the Bible?

Hope you understood my message and desire for you to know the truth yourself. I can never teach you the truth, but He will but ONLY if you have a genuine desire for it.

when we are linking all the evidence to see how God did it, whywould a personal relationship with god force us to reject evolution's story andchose the bible's story?

By the way, for not knowing what the heck was going onaround them, the early Jews did anamazing job using what they knew about the world to come up with theircreation story. I don't think the creationstory would be the same if it was written today by them.

 

[cupid dave]

what would Jesus say about evolution?

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (of mind).

46 Howbeit that, (the Homoousian mind) was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, (or more elementary in contrast with ancient humanoids, like Neanderthals); and afterward that which is spiritual (or improved in regard to the mind)?

47 The first man, (an eponym for a whole species concurrent with Ramaphitecus Man and Sahelanthropus tchadensis), is of the earth, earthy: the second man, (Homoousian sapiens), is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, (mostly physically inclined), such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly (mentally inclined, in the spirit of thinking), such are they also that are heavenly, (and it is they who are evolving beyond the earthy men of the past).

49 And as we have, (one species after the next), borne (from the first man, an eponym for a whole species concurrent with Ramaphitecus Man and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, in our ascent), the image (of Reality that was then possible) of the earthy, we, (Homoiousian sapiens), shall also bear the image of the heavenly (mental things that are true).

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, (the new heaven and earth of the future); neither doth corruption (or bad characteristics) inherit incorruption, (i.e.; good characteristics).

51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed (we shall eveolve as a species),

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, (advanced and improved beings), and we, (as a species), shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible (present form of even ourselves) must put on incorruption, (a new creature to appear in this reality of God), and this mortal (mind) must put on immortality (in an awaken mind that will be thereafter genetically reborn in mankind).